| Author |
Message |
Frank Parker (Parkerfe)
Intermediate Member
Username: Parkerfe
Post Number: 1540
Registered: 9-2001
| | Posted on Sunday, November 24, 2002 - 7:15 am: | |
Henryk, the clutch was slipping when I bought her and the deal reflected the cost to replace the clutch. I was just wondering if there were a better set up out there than the OEM clutch. |
JRV (Jrvall)
Junior Member
Username: Jrvall
Post Number: 160
Registered: 11-2002
| | Posted on Sunday, November 24, 2002 - 1:13 am: | |
What's it take to do the conversion, and what's the cost?
Sounds interesting.
Yes they're tricky...because the motor needs to be running right and you have to get out of the clutch quickly, no riding...
A Diablo Clutch joke for you guys that accidently forget to learn the idiosincracies.
Diablo owner comes into the shop with 7K miles on his car and tells the mechanic,
"luigi, I think my clutch is slipping."
luigi checks it out and says, "oh yes the clutch is slipping badly, with only 7K miles, perhaps you were riding the clutch accidently"
Owner, "well yes, this damn thing isn't the way I want it be, easy and effortless"
luigi, "oh I see, well you need a new one now sir"
owner, "damn, how much is that going to cost?"
luigi, "oh about $8K sir"
owner, "what the h***ll, D**#@^&%M $8K dollars!!!"
luigi, "well yes sir"
owner, "well how long will this next clutch last?"
luigi, "oh don't worry, the next clutch will last a whole lot longer" ;-)
BTW..I've seen a couple TR's with Blown Diffs from those good stock TR clutches. Brother.. TR diffs and trans side covers are expensive...but so far those replacements are lasting a whole lot longer also. ;-)
These things aren't your fathers Oldsmobile, that's for sure.
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David Prall (Davidpra)
Junior Member
Username: Davidpra
Post Number: 126
Registered: 2-2001
| | Posted on Saturday, November 23, 2002 - 11:27 pm: | |
Guys:
Yeah the original Boxer clutches are good, but they are really designed to be used at high speeds / revs. They are tricky if you drive your car alot on city streets ---- stop and go traffic.
The twin disc / plate setup is easy to fry. Switching to the "extra-grabby" Kevlar makes this problem worse. Many people (including myself) swear by converting the original setup to a late-model TR, single disc / plate configuration.
You may want to explore that option... |
JRV (Jrvall)
Junior Member
Username: Jrvall
Post Number: 155
Registered: 11-2002
| | Posted on Saturday, November 23, 2002 - 9:06 pm: | |
Kevlar Clutches have been tearing up diffs in Diablos.
The clutches are bullet proof imo. If it's slipping, before you turn the discs to rock, you might be able to remove the shims for 1 more go around. |
Henryk (Henryk)
Member
Username: Henryk
Post Number: 332
Registered: 8-2001
| | Posted on Saturday, November 23, 2002 - 8:09 pm: | |
Frank: You just got your Boxer. Is the clutch already bad? |
Henryk (Henryk)
Member
Username: Henryk
Post Number: 331
Registered: 8-2001
| | Posted on Saturday, November 23, 2002 - 8:00 pm: | |
Frank: What is wrong with the original clutch? The one on my BBi works just fine. |
Frank Parker (Parkerfe)
Intermediate Member
Username: Parkerfe
Post Number: 1539
Registered: 9-2001
| | Posted on Saturday, November 23, 2002 - 7:45 pm: | |
Does any one know of a place to buy a high performance kevlar clutch kit for a BB512i ? |
David Prall (Davidpra)
Junior Member
Username: Davidpra
Post Number: 125
Registered: 2-2001
| | Posted on Tuesday, November 19, 2002 - 5:52 pm: | |
Peter:
Once you go MoTec, you'll never look back...far superior in every way.
Bosch who?! |
David Prall (Davidpra)
Junior Member
Username: Davidpra
Post Number: 124
Registered: 2-2001
| | Posted on Tuesday, November 19, 2002 - 5:50 pm: | |
Well, I didn't mean to imply that it could be done today at those prices...snicker, snicker.
I should have mentioned that:
I did the MoTec conversion in '95 when their prices were a bargain (plus I got everything at wholesale) compared to their prices now.
Injectors plus misc components and electronics -- wholesale.
Custom hardware (fuel rails, wiring harnesses, etc.) --- made by myself.
Headers ---- made by a friend as a favor for me (cost me $2K).
Intake / Head work --- done by myself.
Oh yeah, did I forget to mention that I used to own a race / tuning shop?
That's why I said, "You should have bought my car". All that work was done right and inexpensively ---- the guy who bought the car (in France, incidentally) got a hell of a bargain!!
But, realistically, I would estimate you could prep a Boxer today the same way, at today's prices for $13-15K (if you shop around a bit). I would still say that's worth it for an $80K car (in my opinion).
|
JRV (Jrvall)
Junior Member
Username: Jrvall
Post Number: 142
Registered: 11-2002
| | Posted on Tuesday, November 19, 2002 - 4:21 pm: | |
>>>All in all, I put about $9K into the mods (which I thought was very reasonable considering the value of the car and the performance gains). <<<
Considering a full Motec setup alone costs $9K not to mention $4K for most custom headers, not to mention a new Induction System, I'd say you did a smokin kick a$$ job of getting everything, and on the car too for $9K.
Congrats !!
|
peter brinzey (Ferraripete)
New member
Username: Ferraripete
Post Number: 12
Registered: 11-2002
| | Posted on Tuesday, November 19, 2002 - 3:57 pm: | |
suspension: car has only 16,000 miles but new konis on all four. as important, i have corner weighted the car and it is very well sorted!!
fuel inj: motec? good idea! who did the conversion and was it time consuming to sort?
the bosch system is very usable...is that lost w/motec?
the car really needs 75 more ponies to match it looks! |
David Prall (Davidpra)
Junior Member
Username: Davidpra
Post Number: 121
Registered: 2-2001
| | Posted on Tuesday, November 19, 2002 - 3:10 pm: | |
Peter:
You should have bought mine (an 84 BBi) --- I just sold it about 6 months ago. The car was a real screamer with really only one mod that made all the difference.
The stock ignition and FI systems are garbage -- even when in perfect running order (which is only about 10% of the time). I replaced my stock systems with a MoTec programmable system. This really made the car come alive, and it gave me consistent, top performance ---- I used to smoke 512TR's and 355's at the track all day long!
I also did some typical intake manifold / head work (port, polish, balance) --- had some custom performance headers made as well.
All in all, I put about $9K into the mods (which I thought was very reasonable considering the value of the car and the performance gains).
The only other mod I would suggest, which I did not do, would be to dial in / improve the suspension. The Boxer is pretty squirrelly out of the box --- and adding the 75-odd HP and 25% more low end torque didn't much help that shortcoming. |
JRV (Jrvall)
Junior Member
Username: Jrvall
Post Number: 141
Registered: 11-2002
| | Posted on Tuesday, November 19, 2002 - 1:28 pm: | |
I remembered a Mod from the days...D!ck Fritz @ Amerispec used to make some nice exhausts for Boxers, maybe he still does or has some still around.
As far as high speed driving....agreed streets are different than tracks...however...a poorly sorted race car is very scary at high speeds, been there done that. When was the last time the shocks were new/rebuilt ? a real 4 wheel alignment done? all wheel bearings were checked and adjusted ?
In my experience real race cars are spec'ed & detailed to the max to preserve ones life and maximize every aspect of it's inherent ability to perform and last. While most street cars are not given the same attention to detail because of the cost and time associated with 'really' going thru one. Understandable to some degree because the extremes of intended/expected use are different.
Who would drive a race car 170 miles an hour with 20 year old factory springs on it or 20 yr old shocks and ball joints ? I might, but I wouldn't expect much in the way of 'perfect' handling. The point is, while we may get better with practice and age, car suspensions don't ;-). |
peter brinzey (Ferraripete)
New member
Username: Ferraripete
Post Number: 11
Registered: 11-2002
| | Posted on Tuesday, November 19, 2002 - 1:04 pm: | |
jrv,
thanks for advice...i should take the car back to see that both banks are speaking to one another.
stability issue: boxers are not stable on "real" roads and are simply hindered by lousy vehicle dynamics. as an ex. scca and imsa licensed driver(also spent 4 years racing 750 superbikes), i've ridden and driven some decent machines...even a well sorted boxer is a hand full at 140-170(indicated) period!!!
in closing , i do believe that they are (to me) the last of the really cool ferraris. i will not sell mine and only plan on adding a 365 gtb/4 in the summer to sit next to it. |
JRV (Jrvall)
Junior Member
Username: Jrvall
Post Number: 139
Registered: 11-2002
| | Posted on Tuesday, November 19, 2002 - 11:25 am: | |
I've been 160 in Boxers more than once and 150 plenty of times. Now 140+ at night over driving the headlights was scary !!!
The 512 LM's were capable of 190's-200's...
If the thing doesn't pull to redline like a turbine on steriods, somethings wrong imo.
The best MOD I've seen for Boxers was a real tune by an expert. Not some by guess or by golly tune sorts seems ok to me tune.
Both Halves have to run in perfect harmony otherwise you'll have parasitic drag from one side working against the other, seriously reducing overall output . |
TomD (Tifosi)
Intermediate Member
Username: Tifosi
Post Number: 1837
Registered: 9-2001
| | Posted on Tuesday, November 19, 2002 - 9:40 am: | |
peter
I have heard the boxer at 140 is very steady - the front gets a little lite but the engine loves the speed and revs. Just what I have heard. I guess what I am saying is no matter what you do the car is 20 years old and there will always be someone who comes along with some new mods on a ricer that can out drag you - I would not worry about it |
peter brinzey (Ferraripete)
New member
Username: Ferraripete
Post Number: 10
Registered: 11-2002
| | Posted on Tuesday, November 19, 2002 - 9:24 am: | |
tom,
i think my goals are not to build a dragster...if fact i will not consider any psycho mods that bolt on other than haeders, exhaust or other. additionally my car is never drag raced (don't ever beat up my 1st -2nd shift forks and cannot
stand the thought of rock chips)however the car remains fairly gutless on top of the rev range.
also, have you ever been 150 mph in a boxer...not
quite stability personified! |
TomD (Tifosi)
Intermediate Member
Username: Tifosi
Post Number: 1829
Registered: 9-2001
| | Posted on Tuesday, November 19, 2002 - 7:02 am: | |
you are trying to turn the car into something it is not - a dragster - possible but I would not do it. Get the honda up to 140-150 and see how it goes |
JRV (Jrvall)
Junior Member
Username: Jrvall
Post Number: 135
Registered: 11-2002
| | Posted on Monday, November 18, 2002 - 11:38 pm: | |
A Boxer has 375 stock. Buy the F-40 engine for sale from LT and drop it in ;-). You could add the water injection and run the guy mano y mano. |
peter brinzey (Ferraripete)
New member
Username: Ferraripete
Post Number: 8
Registered: 11-2002
| | Posted on Monday, November 18, 2002 - 11:27 pm: | |
no, the car runs well and is just coming off a major sevice. the v-tech civic was 400 hp to the wheels ...full on turbo, nos, huge intercooler, water inj. and the rest...
still it would be nice to get more from a 512 w/o
going into the motor. |
JRV (Jrvall)
Junior Member
Username: Jrvall
Post Number: 131
Registered: 11-2002
| | Posted on Monday, November 18, 2002 - 11:11 pm: | |
Are you sure your 'distrubutor' is advancing properly? Doesn't sound like it is to me. It's a very common malidy with all the cars with lay down distribs to have the flywieghts freeze up. Although they may seem to run ok, it costs them a lot of power if the distribs aren't just right. Only takes 10 minutes to check with a timing light. |
peter brinzey (Ferraripete)
New member
Username: Ferraripete
Post Number: 2
Registered: 11-2002
| | Posted on Monday, November 18, 2002 - 9:18 pm: | |
i was recently blown into the weeds by a v-tech
civic...and yes...there were witnesses!
are there any ways to make these cars fast? they are to me, the last of the real ferraris. love
to be quicker from a rolling start! |