| Author | Message | ||
| magoo (Magoo)
Advanced Member Username: Magoo Post Number: 3658 Registered: 2-2001 |
Also most of the cracks are between the teeth. This is where the stress would start to show first. As Paul says make it a paper weight. | ||
| Paul Newman (Newman)
Member Username: Newman Post Number: 780 Registered: 12-2001 |
seriously, I would use that as a paper weight. Looks like a grenade to me. | ||
| Paul Newman (Newman)
Member Username: Newman Post Number: 779 Registered: 12-2001 |
Looks like the oven was on too long or too high jay. | ||
| J. Grande (Jay)
Member Username: Jay Post Number: 874 Registered: 10-2001 |
they are definately cracks! I ran my nail across the gear and could feel the cracks. Here is a pic. They go around the entire circumfrence of the gear.   | ||
| J. Grande (Jay)
Member Username: Jay Post Number: 872 Registered: 10-2001 |
Paul, I hope to be doing both at around the same time! | ||
| Paul Newman (Newman)
Member Username: Newman Post Number: 773 Registered: 12-2001 |
Hey Jay, looks like you should sell your GP tickets to pay for the gears. Priorities, priorities. See Micheal race.....or drive the GT4 this summer....mmmmmmmmmm what to do. | ||
| Charles I Claussen (Atlantaman)
New member Username: Atlantaman Post Number: 39 Registered: 3-2002 |
J.Grande- I recently saw a few of these at T.Rutlands in Atlanta. If I recall he recently sold a "set" for these for about 2000. Actaully I do have a spare and would sell it, but Have it in use temporarily C | ||
| J. Grande (Jay)
Member Username: Jay Post Number: 871 Registered: 10-2001 |
Guys I'll try to get a picture on here tomorrow, just been so busy with work that I haven't had a chance to go and snap a picture of the gear. | ||
| magoo (Magoo)
Advanced Member Username: Magoo Post Number: 3645 Registered: 2-2001 |
Have a metalurgical test and examination done on the gear. Some machine shops do it or sublet it to be done. Anyway you will have a professional opinion then whereas another used gear you get may be a bad one. | ||
| James Selevan (Jselevan)
Member Username: Jselevan Post Number: 263 Registered: 6-2002 |
Jay - may be a silly question, but are you sure there are cracks in the gear? There may be surface irregularities resulting from original manufacturing, including flashings, that look all the world like cracks, but are not. I have seen these on a number of gears, and other machined metal parts. It might be worth your while to have a machinist look at the gear for an opinion. Seems unlikely that the gear would have cracks. Not your typical failure mode. Jim S. | ||
| J. Grande (Jay)
Member Username: Jay Post Number: 870 Registered: 10-2001 |
That's true Gerrit but I won't be able to use any of the other parts on that engine, not worth it for me. | ||
| Gerrit Visser (Gerritv)
Junior Member Username: Gerritv Post Number: 116 Registered: 6-2001 |
208's have the same transfer gear PN's as the 308's. | ||
| J. Grande (Jay)
Member Username: Jay Post Number: 869 Registered: 10-2001 |
208 engine is no good to me. Different heads, carbs, gear ratios...so back to finding a set of 3 or just one (if the price is right). Thanks anyway Martin! | ||
| J. Grande (Jay)
Member Username: Jay Post Number: 865 Registered: 10-2001 |
Thanks everyone for your emails! I'm checking out if the 208 and the 308 share the same gears. I've also found one (used) for about $500. I'm thinking of buying all three and then selling my two good ones, recoup some funds. | ||
| Horsefly (Arlie)
Member Username: Arlie Post Number: 442 Registered: 5-2002 |
Hey Jay, I think you're browsing the wrong thread. Check out the comments from Charles over at: http://server.ferrarichat.com/~ferrari/ferrarichat.com/discus/messages/18/134787.html?1039064302 Looks like he knows somebody that can cut new gears. | ||
| Tom Bakowsky (Tbakowsky)
Junior Member Username: Tbakowsky Post Number: 78 Registered: 9-2002 |
Thanks Paul. I just put a call to my buddy and he has found me a complete engine and trans with bell housing. Trouble is the guy who has the engine went through a divorce with his wife and she won't let him near the house to get the engine. (court order perhaps) So I was thinking to get the directions to this guys house and drive down there myself to pick it up and pay him the cash. | ||
| Paul Newman (Newman)
Member Username: Newman Post Number: 768 Registered: 12-2001 |
Good deal Jay, Ill buy the engine for a display in my basement and you can sell the differential parts to Tom in TO who's dying for parts. Not to mention all those big dollar gearbox parts you'll have left over. How much again Martin? Be nice to your fellow ferrari owners. | ||
| Martin - Cavallino Motors (Miami348ts)
Advanced Member Username: Miami348ts Post Number: 3389 Registered: 5-2001 |
but I take as little as 3 gears and a washer. Heck. Jay, find out if those gears are idential on the 208 engines. If they are you might buy the whole engine and tranny and have plenty of spare parts  Take the gears out and sell the rest on e-bay. | ||
| Martin - Cavallino Motors (Miami348ts)
Advanced Member Username: Miami348ts Post Number: 3388 Registered: 5-2001 |
$900 for a gear? Hell then I have to sell my whole engine and tranny for what $ 100,000 ???? I have a 208GT4 engine with tranny for sale $100,000 obo. | ||
| JRV (Jrvall)
Member Username: Jrvall Post Number: 275 Registered: 11-2002 |
Well we're finally getting enough info to understand your concern. Here's the Koenig site, email them and see what they have. http://www.koenig-specials.com/ also, scroll this following list and start calling your a$$ off till you find a good used set, lots of 308s have been parted out. http://www.ferrariclub.com/rolodex/ | ||
| J. Grande (Jay)
Member Username: Jay Post Number: 859 Registered: 10-2001 |
JRV, the reason I am so concerned about this is because another GT4 owner had one blow out on him at the track. Put a hole in the case and destroyed the other gears! I just put this heap together and I don't want to take any chances! I will be going on some long trips with this car (Toronto to Montreal for F1...I hope) and I will be tracking this car in the summer. Piece of mind I guess. I don't know what it was like before because I got the car in pieces, I've never driven it yet. How do I get in touch with Koening? | ||
| JRV (Jrvall)
Member Username: Jrvall Post Number: 273 Registered: 11-2002 |
You call all the usual suspects for some used gears? Koenig sells new sets, likely cheaper than the quote I saw posted. Or just run the old one, it was working when you took it apart I gather. You probably never knew there were cracks till you looked at the gear. I've never seen or heard of a broken transfer gear in 25 years. Those gears probably can't be broken with 225 HP unless you do nothing but burnouts 24/7 for a year. And even at that, there are smaller more likely parts that would break first. I could be wrong, but these cracks you're talking about are very likely 'smearing' of the face material. Not crack cracks that run through a metal object. The surfaces are hardened 10-20 thousanths deep and can develop what is known as smearing, this is where multiple small surface cracks appear. But these do not continue into the body of the object (of the type like a transfer gear), in the type of use a street car is subjected to.. | ||
| J. Grande (Jay)
Member Username: Jay Post Number: 856 Registered: 10-2001 |
Okay, so anyone have all 3 for sale...preferably used? | ||
| JRV (Jrvall)
Member Username: Jrvall Post Number: 269 Registered: 11-2002 |
I agree with those that mentioned, if the cracks are only on the surface I would reuse the gear. Of course you have the advantage of seeing the cracks. It is highly unlikely with only surface cracks that the gear could just break apart. Mixing and matching the transfer gears will likely lead to very noisey running. The gears come in matched sets and should actualy always be installed with the marks all on the same sides ie: I've seen plenty of center gears that have been flipped , yes the work fine, but they are noisier. | ||
| J. Grande (Jay)
Member Username: Jay Post Number: 853 Registered: 10-2001 |
The oven's been set to 350 for a long time...still waiting for the dough! | ||
| Paul Newman (Newman)
Member Username: Newman Post Number: 764 Registered: 12-2001 |
Jay, the oven's on, where's the dough? No dough.....no cookies. | ||
| BretM (Bretm)
Advanced Member Username: Bretm Post Number: 3008 Registered: 2-2001 |
Sorry Jay, I was posting at the same time, apparently we have similar thoughts. | ||
| BretM (Bretm)
Advanced Member Username: Bretm Post Number: 3007 Registered: 2-2001 |
If they're that expensive you might try and just run that gear again, albeit it could play ultimo destructo with the others if it goes. Either way, for that type of money I would bet you could get all three gears made up in a better quality by an American company. Then you wouldn't have to worry about matching them, etc. An entire straight cut T case (significiantly stronger, new cover, etc) for the 308 engine went for like $2500 a year or so ago on ebay, what they want for a gear is insane in light of that. | ||
| J. Grande (Jay)
Member Username: Jay Post Number: 852 Registered: 10-2001 |
I think I may replace all three and then sell the two on my car that are good. I don't think it can be fixed. I'll post a picture as soon as I can get out there. | ||
| Paul (Pcelenta)
Junior Member Username: Pcelenta Post Number: 223 Registered: 7-2002 |
can the cracks be welded and the gear remachined? | ||
| Hans E. Hansen (4re_gt4)
Member Username: 4re_gt4 Post Number: 661 Registered: 4-2002 |
I'd have trouble using a gear made by a machinist in this case. It's CRITICAL that gear materials and material hardnesses are compatible. A machinist may be able to make a suitable gear that matches dimension-wise, but duplicating materials and surface hardening isn't easy. | ||
| Barney Guzzo (Trinacria)
New member Username: Trinacria Post Number: 32 Registered: 8-2002 |
1GBP = appx $1.57 today. That means 1500 GBP is appx $2355. Robbery, not even worth discussing. I know some great machinists if you want to give it a try. | ||
| J. Grande (Jay)
Member Username: Jay Post Number: 851 Registered: 10-2001 |
Dave, I'll try to get a picture of it today. They are very visible. $900 is a bargain (yeah right)! From the UK they wanted 1500GBP for a new one. | ||
| Dave Penhale (Dapper)
Member Username: Dapper Post Number: 395 Registered: 4-2002 |
Surely in theory the mesh pattern already generated on a used one 'could' result in a worse scenario than starting with a new part(s)? How deep are the surface defects/striations, have you had the part NDT'd | ||
| Barney Guzzo (Trinacria)
New member Username: Trinacria Post Number: 31 Registered: 8-2002 |
Holy crap, I just checked with my parts guy - his cost $900. Wow. Bring it to a machine shop. Maybe they can make one. Probably a lot cheaper. | ||
| J. Grande (Jay)
Member Username: Jay Post Number: 850 Registered: 10-2001 |
Never heard of them, where are they? number? | ||
| Paul Newman (Newman)
Member Username: Newman Post Number: 760 Registered: 12-2001 |
Jay, what about exotic auto in TO. Seems to part alot of 308's. | ||
| J. Grande (Jay)
Member Username: Jay Post Number: 848 Registered: 10-2001 |
Thanks Gerrit, do you have a copy of that SB? | ||
| Gerrit Visser (Gerritv)
Junior Member Username: Gerritv Post Number: 114 Registered: 6-2001 |
The details are in SB30-3 (4/20/83) Essentially the Shaved (machined)gears are replaced with ground (polished) gears (G near serial number on gearbox). If there is no mark near the SN, then the gears are Shaved type. You can replace one type with the other, but the mating gears need to match the same type. I.e. all Ground or all shaved. Gear part numbers for all Mondial and 308 models are the same. The shaved designation has nothing to do with baldness, whether intentional or by choice :-) | ||
| J. Grande (Jay)
Member Username: Jay Post Number: 844 Registered: 10-2001 |
Hans, I just emailed him and I have Rocco looking for one also. There have gotta be a few of these kicking around, lots of people parting out the GT4's  | ||
| Hans E. Hansen (4re_gt4)
Member Username: 4re_gt4 Post Number: 652 Registered: 4-2002 |
I guess what I was trying to say is be careful of *which* used one. I'd still contact Brian Keegan to talk over the possible implications of this. He'll be glad to jawbone over the situation, and might have a lead on a used one. | ||
| J. Grande (Jay)
Member Username: Jay Post Number: 842 Registered: 10-2001 |
Hans, that's why I want a used one! | ||
| Hans E. Hansen (4re_gt4)
Member Username: 4re_gt4 Post Number: 651 Registered: 4-2002 |
Important!! They changed these gears at some point. I've heard that a newer style will mesh with an older one, but apparently you're asking for trouble if you mix-and-match. Contact Brian Keegan at www.ferraripartsexchange.com . He and I were just discussing this a couple of days ago, and he is familiar with the problem. | ||
| J. Grande (Jay)
Member Username: Jay Post Number: 841 Registered: 10-2001 |
After having the motor and tranny assembled and a new clutch installed on my 1975 308 GT4 we noticed a problem. The ground gear #9 in the diagram, has very small cracks all around the gear. I don't want to take a chance of it blowing up inside the case and causing more damage. Does anyone have a good used one for sale? The part number is #105544 which according to Ferrari is now superseeded by part #119723 forget the dealer...way too much!  |