| Author | Message | ||
| Edward G. Salla (350hpmondial)
Member Username: 350hpmondial Post Number: 353 Registered: 2-2002 |
Thanks Steve ,, , He finally Came clean. I think he was just busy with all of his holiday $hit and all. ha ha I will be gittin my 2 new rotors for $51.50... . . but that is way above the $ 14.00 mark.! Merry Christmass too you all, and find a way to get the price below $20.00 each please | ||
| Steve (Steve)
Junior Member Username: Steve Post Number: 232 Registered: 2-2001 |
Thanks Ed , it was just a thought. I seem to remember that Marelli made dists for commerical equipment like fork lifts , etc. I still wonder if there is another application that would fit. Has anyone looked at their website (do they have one) to see if there is a cross reference list? Also go get the bum maybe if you give the chat site his phone number we could all call for you. HAHA | ||
| Edward G. Salla (350hpmondial)
Member Username: 350hpmondial Post Number: 351 Registered: 2-2002 |
Steve, I would not suggest the use of the Fiat part in your 2V car. When you hold the parts together, you can see that the brass piece is too short. maybe, if you can order the parts, unmachined from the Magnelli-Marelli contractor, you could machine them to a longer length. I don't know. BTW I just won (2) i rotors from ebay and the piece of $hit dude who ran the auction won't contact me. (because, I got him down to $41.00 for two.) I guess I need to post a bad review. | ||
| Ric Rainbolt (Ricrain)
Member Username: Ricrain Post Number: 327 Registered: 2-2002 |
Billy bob, I fully agree that a Motec is marginally helpful on laters cars. That is unless the car has been modified. If the mods are extensive, it's really a bad idea, IMHO, to try to "strech" the stock ECU to make it work. | ||
| billy bob (Fatbillybob)
Junior Member Username: Fatbillybob Post Number: 104 Registered: 8-2002 |
Ric, That's right. When going from cis/+funky electronics I can see how the Motec can only be a win. Perhaps the win would not be so clear cut on an unmodified 348/355 or late TR. I can see where you would have to Motec in order to get any gains from the free flow exhausts, cam retunes, race gas, intake mods etc... I just don't think there is enough adaptiveness in the stock ECU's. I am also not convinced that the aftermarket chip burners build for these types of mods but try to overoptimize a stock set-up for very little if any gain. | ||
| Steve (Steve)
Junior Member Username: Steve Post Number: 228 Registered: 2-2001 |
Ed your picture looks almost an exact look a like of my rotor for the 77 308 GTB. Have you tried using this on a 2V carb Fcar? Looks good? | ||
| Ric Rainbolt (Ricrain)
Member Username: Ricrain Post Number: 322 Registered: 2-2002 |
Billybob: Ferrari had to meet some horribly ugly emissions standards with a relatively low-tech ignition system (RPM / MAP only) and a remedial mechanical fuel system. In those days, I'm sure Ferrari did spend alot of R&D time working on the dyno and track, but then had to comprimise a good part of that for the US bound cars. The timing specs for my car are much better at idle and very close to the timing specs for the euro 308. Apparently, having terrible timing at idle keeps the cats happy. Also, the 80-82 US cars are tuned to run on 89 octane gas, and I added more advance due to the fact that I always run 93. The Digiplex system is not adaptive in any way, but simple an electronic substitute for a centrifugal advance... nowhere near as good as the units in the more recent cars. | ||
| Verell Boaen (Verell)
Member Username: Verell Post Number: 454 Registered: 5-2001 |
Edward, Ahhh, I see. the 124 Spider part I came up with is IAP #9620. Taking a good look at the photo, odds are that the plastic is actually molded around the brass part. I'll probably invest in one to see for sure tho. The 'i' rotor I have is the one in Tom's photo. I'll have to ck my records to see who donated it. Ric. your comment that your 'i' rotor was very different is very interesting, any chance you've got it lying around & could post a photo? | ||
| Mark (Markg)
Member Username: Markg Post Number: 338 Registered: 2-2001 |
Thanks Ric - I will be calling Nick S. after new year and get the standard 308 direct fire setup! | ||
| billy bob (Fatbillybob)
Junior Member Username: Fatbillybob Post Number: 100 Registered: 8-2002 |
Ric, Did you think it was easy to laptop tune the motec for performance better than Ferrari? If so how do you think this is possible (or what is different) in the way Ferrari does it? They spend hours on the test track with a eraseable prom then burn chips to be non-alterable. There is lots of R and D that Ferrari does. Motecs are about the most advanced aftermarket EFI but can it really out perform what Ferrari does? It if could I would think anyone would do it. Are you a superhuman computer guy? I'm only a mere mortal. When I pee sometimes I hit my shoes. | ||
| Ric Rainbolt (Ricrain)
Member Username: Ricrain Post Number: 323 Registered: 2-2002 |
Mark, my system is a little more elaborate than just direct ignition (it's a Motec M48). The direct fire can liberate a noticable amount of low-end torque from a US-spec car. The timing is so crappy at low RPM, the car burbles and gurgles at idle with the stock system, and runs like a smooth top with the new system. I went from 2-deg ATDC to 12-deg BTDC at 1000 RPM, and it's like driving a different car. I'm getting ready to do a 2nd car in the next month with a similar system. | ||
| Mark (Markg)
Member Username: Markg Post Number: 338 Registered: 2-2001 |
Ric - thinking of converting my 82 US GTSi - how do you like the direct fire? | ||
| Edward G. Salla (350hpmondial)
Junior Member Username: 350hpmondial Post Number: 234 Registered: 2-2002 |
Verell, Try this Rotor, like I said very close. The plastic part not the brass. (and, not from Auto-Zone!) International Auto Parts 1-800-953-0813 Part # 43940000 $7.00  | ||
| Bob Campen (Bob308gts)
Member Username: Bob308gts Post Number: 392 Registered: 9-2001 |
A while back, someone had posted about using a modified Nissan rotor. I don't think the part # was ever listed. | ||
| Ric Rainbolt (Ricrain)
Member Username: Ricrain Post Number: 322 Registered: 2-2002 |
My US-spec '81 GTSi has been changed to direct fire, but before the mod it was 100% stock. It di not use the rotor that Tom Jones pictures below. | ||
| Verell Boaen (Verell)
Member Username: Verell Post Number: 452 Registered: 5-2001 |
Neither Fiat 124 Spyder or X19 rotor's plastic piece is the same as an 'i' rotor's. At least the ones AutoZone carries aren't. The 124's rotor mounts to something disc shaped w/a pair of screws. The X19 rotor is closer to the 'i' rotor, however, the X19's shaft is larger w/spring retainer instead of a set screw. Also, the X19 rotor's contact is closer to the shaft centerline (we knew this). However, on both the X19 & the 'i' rotor, the plastic 'nose' carrying the contact extends to the start of the contact's 'T' crossbar. Thus the X19 plastic piece's nose is significantly shorter than that of the 'i' rotor. Side by side, the 'i' rotor's plastic nose is about as long as the X19's plastic nose plus the contact itself. Conclusion: neither are suitable for the basis of an 'i' rotor replacement. | ||
| Verell Boaen (Verell)
Member Username: Verell Post Number: 451 Registered: 5-2001 |
I see now, the confusion is in the terminology. In general, the rotor for a GTSi/GTBi is called an 'i' rotor. The QV rotor is indeed 'T' shaped, but i've always seen it called a 'QV rotor'. Similarly, the Rotor for the carb'ed 2V engine is somewhat 'I' shaped, but again, it's usually called a 2V rotor. And, yes, it's generally known that a QV rotor can be used to replace a 2V rotor. Edward, I'll look into using a X19 or 124 rotor to make an 'i' rotor replacement. You're right, if it works, it'd cut the cost a lot. | ||
| Tom Jones (Ferrarioldman)
New member Username: Ferrarioldman Post Number: 36 Registered: 6-2002 |
The 1980 through 1982 ignition rotor is not like an "I" or "T" rotor as you have described. See picture.  | ||
| Edward G. Salla (350hpmondial)
Junior Member Username: 350hpmondial Post Number: 222 Registered: 2-2002 |
The plastic part of the "i" rotor is not the problematic unobtanium part. Seems, if you ordered the FIAT (forgot if it's the 124 or the X19rotors), that are Exactly the same, you would have the base problem solved. Now the trick of ordering the brass piece before it is finally sized ,, ,,, ,,, too short! ,, ,,, Then finally , plenty for all! Then you could get the "i" rotors cost down from $70.00 to $7.00. .. ... .. .. .. I don't know but,, ,,, is this is due to the fact that us 8 cyl guys, we don't have the means to purchase a factory? A mold would be fine, but the plastic part is really a BIN part. I'll bet FIAT has ton's ...... | ||
| billy bob (Fatbillybob)
Junior Member Username: Fatbillybob Post Number: 89 Registered: 8-2002 |
Well, Here is how I understand it. I have a 2valve carb gts and a QV car. The QV uses a rotor with the plastic and brass shaped like a "t". The 2valve has the plastic and brass shaped like an "I" for lack of better description. I have never taken the time to figure out if the longer T rotor is required for the spark to be fully disapated from primary to secondary. All I know is that you can use either rotor and the cars will run. In fact I don't use I rotors anymore. I just buy T's since the QV needs them and the carb cars runs fine on them. And to my knowledge the T rotors are very obtanium... | ||
| Verell Boaen (Verell)
Member Username: Verell Post Number: 450 Registered: 5-2001 |
Lindsay, I knew what an 'i' rotor was, but BillyBob referenced a 't' rotor as being interchangeable. (So BillyBob, what gives?) I've got making 'i' rotors fairly high on the list of unobtanium that I plan on supplying. Do you have a problem w/an 'i' rotor, or are you asking so you'll know 'just in case'? Reason is, It won't be hard to reproduce the plastic piece of an 'i' rotor, but I'm not yet up to making the stamping dies needed to reproduce the various brass pieces. I can hand fabricate a 1-off metal piece if necessary. For an idea of what I've been working on so far, see the following threads: Column Switch Wiper Stalk: http://server.ferrarichat.com/~ferrari/ferrarichat.com/discus/messages/112/107784.html 400/308 choke/temp/vent lever bezels: http://server.ferrarichat.com/~ferrari/ferrarichat.com/discus/messages/112/115035.html I've recently shipped an evaluation bezel to Simon, and 308GT4 (black) bezels to a parts supplier. If you've got a broken 'i' rotor, that's pretty well physically intact, I'd be willing to see if I can rebuild it. I'd have to look it over before I could give you a rebuild estimate. 'Gards, The Unobtanium Supplier | ||
| Frank Foster (Sparta49)
Junior Member Username: Sparta49 Post Number: 133 Registered: 3-2001 |
Lindsay, you can change the piece the rotor attaches to on the end of the camshaft but I believe you have to pull the cam shaft to change the piece | ||
| Lindsay Mandryk (Lindsay)
New member Username: Lindsay Post Number: 2 Registered: 9-2002 |
verell, I was refering to dist. rotors for a '80 308 gtbi. No longer available, so I've been told. | ||
| Verell Boaen (Verell)
Member Username: Verell Post Number: 449 Registered: 5-2001 |
OK, I'll bite: Whats a 't' rotor? | ||
| billy bob (Fatbillybob)
Junior Member Username: Fatbillybob Post Number: 88 Registered: 8-2002 |
I and t rotors are interchangable | ||
| Tom Jones (Ferrarioldman)
New member Username: Ferrarioldman Post Number: 31 Registered: 6-2002 |
You can change it accept one like a QV. Just have to change the piece on the end of the camshaft. | ||
| Mark (Markg)
Member Username: Markg Post Number: 322 Registered: 2-2001 |
$1500.00 for a direct fire ignition - my next major upgrade. Those with "i" cars swear by it | ||
| Lindsay Mandryk (Lindsay)
New member Username: Lindsay Post Number: 1 Registered: 9-2002 |
Has any one solved the "i" rotor problem, as in what happens now that theyare apparently out of production?? |