| Author |
Message |
Philip Airey (Pma1010)
Junior Member
Username: Pma1010
Post Number: 73
Registered: 7-2002
| | Posted on Tuesday, December 17, 2002 - 9:50 am: | |
John
Thanks for the thoughts. I checked my old shocks - they were 1 3/4 quarter turns out which while fairly soft, is not too far out on our bumpy mid west roads. I'll set them to 1 1/2.
I used a regular automotive paint after zinc coating the springs so at least they should not rust. (My concern with using an epoxy or similar was that it would crack under repeated stressing of the spring). |
JohnR. (Rivee)
Junior Member
Username: Rivee
Post Number: 133
Registered: 1-2002
| | Posted on Monday, December 16, 2002 - 10:49 am: | |
Phillip, I glass beaded and powder coated my springs with a OEM black (satin). I set the shocks at 1/2 turn out from max in. Also I installed polyurethane control arm bushings I got from a shop in Modesto, CA. Can't recall the name right now. They are supposed to last longer, give better performance, and are quieter than rubber. |
Philip Airey (Pma1010)
Junior Member
Username: Pma1010
Post Number: 66
Registered: 7-2002
| | Posted on Friday, December 13, 2002 - 10:06 pm: | |
I have the springs off and ready to paint. Two questions. anyone have a recommendation on paint type. Assume an epoxy is too hard/not flexible enough. Second, where do people usually set the adjustment on their Koni's? Range is 0.5 to 2.5 turns as best as I can tell.
I'd like a ride that works on both track and street (a compromise). My gut is 1.5 turns out for "firm" -- not hard, not soft
Philip |
Ron R (Ronr)
New member
Username: Ronr
Post Number: 43
Registered: 10-2002
| | Posted on Wednesday, December 11, 2002 - 10:53 pm: | |
I've rented spring compressors before from good auto parts stores. I was working on GM cars with big springs (many years ago), and from what I remember they work from inside the coil. I suppose it's worth checking to see if they have something that would work from the outside.
With the right tool, I believe it can be done relatively safely. Doing it with made-up tools, like a vise, hammer and screwdrivers, is probably asking for trouble... |
JRV (Jrvall)
Member
Username: Jrvall
Post Number: 356
Registered: 11-2002
| | Posted on Wednesday, December 11, 2002 - 11:20 am: | |
>>>If you do decide to take the springs off of the shocks, make sure you have a good quality spring compressor, or you won't need to worry about your shocks anymore. <<<
Ahmen to that...taking those springs off is very likely the single most dangerous operation on the entire car...I've heard of broken bones and worse.
Which is why I was wondering about all this playing around with them in the first place.
|
JohnR. (Rivee)
Junior Member
Username: Rivee
Post Number: 132
Registered: 1-2002
| | Posted on Wednesday, December 11, 2002 - 4:52 am: | |
Phillip, I too did my a-arm bushings along with r/r the shocks. Getting the 12mm bolt out of the a-arm was the most time consuming. If you do decide to take the springs off of the shocks, make sure you have a good quality spring compressor, or you won't need to worry about your shocks anymore.
I'm going to put new Koni's on in the near future. |
Rexrcr (Rexrcr)
New member
Username: Rexrcr
Post Number: 29
Registered: 11-2002
| | Posted on Monday, December 09, 2002 - 7:28 pm: | |
For about $25 each, many shock repair places, like Truechoice, SRP Engineering, Shock-Shop, Roehrig Engineering and us at Moriss Dampers will test your shocks on a dynamometer and give you a force vs. velocity and force vs. displacement graph. It's great information and what we routinely discover is that mass produced shocks have huge issues with matching force response characteristics in axle pairs. Usually it's just fine for street use, but revalving and "blueprinting" (matching valving) is worth it for racing.
Manually working a shock by hand on the workbench doesn't tell you much about how the quality of damping has degraded with time, if it has, only if you have a totally blown-out part. |
Philip Airey (Pma1010)
Junior Member
Username: Pma1010
Post Number: 65
Registered: 7-2002
| | Posted on Monday, December 09, 2002 - 5:27 pm: | |
John
Thanks for the information. To the point raised by Magoo and others, it is surprizing isn't it that the Koni rep said to adjust only. Your experience supports that it will tighten them up.
I guess the truth here is spend $260 or thereabouts for a pair of shocks and know they're good or face taking the old apart, cleaning them up, painting them and putting them back on only to find they should have been rebuilt or replaced. If you did the shocks alone, how long did it take you to take off and replace onto the car? (I am doing rotors and control arm bushings at the same time).
Dan
Thanks for the offer. If they do need replacement, I'll have mine rebuilt or replace with new. Put them on eBay?
By the way, I'll have some used (but serviceble) 308 front brake rotors if anyone is interested.
Philip |
JohnR. (Rivee)
Junior Member
Username: Rivee
Post Number: 130
Registered: 1-2002
| | Posted on Monday, December 09, 2002 - 1:27 am: | |
Phillip, I took mine apart a few weeks to see what setting they were on, and they were in surprisingly good shape (78308). I didn't know what settings they were on when I bought the car so I took them off one side of the car to compare the ridgity, and set both of them all the way in, then backed them out one half turn and put them back on. They handled great. They stiffened up that side of the car a lot.
But as others have stated, they aren't that expensive to replace and replacing them would be one less thing to worry about failing in the future.
The worst thing for me was getting that long blanketly blank 12mm bolt from the front top shock mount/wishbone bracket out! |
magoo (Magoo)
Advanced Member
Username: Magoo
Post Number: 3699
Registered: 2-2001
| | Posted on Sunday, December 08, 2002 - 10:50 pm: | |
But don't you find it odd that a Koni Tech. would give such a solution rather than replacing or rebuilding the shock. Maybe they know something we don't. |
Dan Marlett (Ferrari_dan)
Junior Member
Username: Ferrari_dan
Post Number: 52
Registered: 9-2002
| | Posted on Sunday, December 08, 2002 - 10:00 pm: | |
Philip,
I have some used Koni shocks and springs from my 328 if interested. They are in very good shape (No leaks...etc.) and I also have the new bushings for them. I only have the front. Don't know if the front and rear are the same. |
Matt Lemus (Mlemus)
Member
Username: Mlemus
Post Number: 834
Registered: 8-2002
| | Posted on Sunday, December 08, 2002 - 8:58 pm: | |
With the cost of about $130 each. It is by far one of the cheapest parts on the car to replace. It is very much worth it. |
JRV (Jrvall)
Member
Username: Jrvall
Post Number: 321
Registered: 11-2002
| | Posted on Sunday, December 08, 2002 - 8:57 pm: | |
you have to take the spring off to check or adjust them .
25 yr old shocks with 25 yr old oil & 25 yr old seals adjusting like new ones? I'd say if they were still like new it would be a miracle. |
James Glickenhaus (Napolis)
Junior Member
Username: Napolis
Post Number: 209
Registered: 10-2002
| | Posted on Sunday, December 08, 2002 - 8:55 pm: | |
Koni rebuilt the shocks in my MK-IV, Lola, and P4
all of which were rare very quickly and for a reasonable price.
For standard shocks I agree with JRV: replace them.
It's nice to know that they were willing and able to rebuild 35 year old shocks. |
Philip Airey (Pma1010)
Junior Member
Username: Pma1010
Post Number: 61
Registered: 7-2002
| | Posted on Sunday, December 08, 2002 - 8:45 pm: | |
JR
I appreciate the empathy. If they were going to be rebuilt, I'd send them to TruChoice (TrueChoice?) rather than do it myself. No it's more the question of whether changing the setting of the "wear adjuster" has a material impact on performance (as the Koni rep suggests) or I should just rebuild/replace as you and Dave are advocating...
Philip |
JRV (Jrvall)
Member
Username: Jrvall
Post Number: 315
Registered: 11-2002
| | Posted on Sunday, December 08, 2002 - 7:32 pm: | |
Phillip, it's very common for the oil and seals inside to deteriorate causing poor action, even sticking and freezing up. After you've taken one of those springs off I suspect you'll view the job as something you wouldn't want to do twice. |
Philip Airey (Pma1010)
Junior Member
Username: Pma1010
Post Number: 59
Registered: 7-2002
| | Posted on Sunday, December 08, 2002 - 4:24 pm: | |
Dave, JR
That was my inclination. However, the response from Koni surprized me. Has anyone actually tried to change the damping characteristics using the "wear adjuster"?
Don,
All bushings from Superformance (UK). You can see their catalog at superformance.co.uk. Shock bushings are about $15 each (2 per corner). Control arm bushes are $18 each for the harder rubber - 4 per corner.
Philip |
Don McCormick (Dandy_don)
New member
Username: Dandy_don
Post Number: 38
Registered: 2-2002
| | Posted on Sunday, December 08, 2002 - 4:09 pm: | |
Phillip,
What sort of bushings did you end up ordering-stock or something harder? Could you let me know where you got them and which type. I also need to do the shock thing too and probably will just buy new ones. Don |
JRV (Jrvall)
Member
Username: Jrvall
Post Number: 309
Registered: 11-2002
| | Posted on Sunday, December 08, 2002 - 2:53 pm: | |
>>26 year old shocks? Replace them while you have everything apart...They are not that expensive...maybe $130 or...<<
Totaly agree, I can't see any long term advantage to playing around with something so hard and dangerous to take apart. |
david handa (Davehanda)
Member
Username: Davehanda
Post Number: 326
Registered: 5-2001
| | Posted on Sunday, December 08, 2002 - 2:50 pm: | |
26 year old shocks? Replace them while you have everything apart...They are not that expensive...maybe $130 or... |
Philip Airey (Pma1010)
Junior Member
Username: Pma1010
Post Number: 58
Registered: 7-2002
| | Posted on Sunday, December 08, 2002 - 2:42 pm: | |
My 308 has the OEM Konis. As I am currently replacing the control arm bushings and various other jobs at the front end, I thought I'd look at the shocks. Clearly the upper and lower bushings need replacement. However, the question of what's required for the shocks is less clear to me. I have searched the archives but didn't see this exact subject covered.
I contacted Koni tech support (responsive and thoughtful) and the tech's recommendation was to remove the spring and test the shock movement by hand with compression (and I assume rebound). An easy motion with nothing sticking and he thought I could simply tighten the damping (push in, engage the adjuster, twist) to improve the action of the shock.
I am curious how many of you that have been down this path have tried this. Given removing the shocks from the car is, at least for me, a fairly time intensive process, I'd like to get this right this time through. Any guidance appreciated.
Philip
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