| Author |
Message |
Steve (Steve)
Member
Username: Steve
Post Number: 252
Registered: 2-2001
| | Posted on Tuesday, December 31, 2002 - 9:08 am: | |
KCCK you should not have to worry. You have a fuel injected engine so it does not have a conventional choke as used on the carb. engines. Your system enriches the fuel by assessing various engine sensors with the CPU and then reduces the rich mixture as the motor warms up.The system usually runs in an open loop mode until things start to heat up. Unless you have a drivability issue I wouldn't worry to much about how long it takes the idle to lower.If you have a problem I'm sure that you'll get a check engine light which will then need to be attended to. |
KCCK (Kenneth)
Junior Member
Username: Kenneth
Post Number: 199
Registered: 10-2002
| | Posted on Tuesday, December 31, 2002 - 4:59 am: | |
I have an automatic choke, which seems to be still on after more than 60 seconds of ignition.
Should I start getting worried? |
Hans E. Hansen (4re_gt4)
Member
Username: 4re_gt4
Post Number: 702
Registered: 4-2002
| | Posted on Monday, December 30, 2002 - 6:40 pm: | |
James: What's interesting is that GM has a computerized oil change idiot light on newer cars. Some of the earlier ones were a little primitive, but the later models are quite sophisticated. They factor in things like high rev use, short trips, etc. etc. The literature says to expect the light to come on somewhere around 6000-9000 miles. Comes on at 3500-4000 for me. Oops.
Have a friend with a 2000 Corvette that saw the oil change light on at 2500. This was after a couple of track days. |
James Selevan (Jselevan)
Member
Username: Jselevan
Post Number: 285
Registered: 6-2002
| | Posted on Monday, December 30, 2002 - 6:23 pm: | |
Thank you, Hans.
Jim S. |
Hans E. Hansen (4re_gt4)
Member
Username: 4re_gt4
Post Number: 701
Registered: 4-2002
| | Posted on Monday, December 30, 2002 - 6:20 pm: | |
I think most manufacturers suggest 3000 miles *if you read the fine print*. GM says 7500 miles UNLESS: 1) you drive in city stop & go traffic 2) Drive short distances 3) Drive where temperatures are at extremes (e.g. Arizona summer) 4) Tow trailers or haul heavy loads (obviously not applicable to sports cars) 5) Performance-type and/or track driving 6) Dusty conditions or off-road driving (obviously). If any of the above applies, the oil change interval is 3000 miles. |
James Selevan (Jselevan)
Member
Username: Jselevan
Post Number: 282
Registered: 6-2002
| | Posted on Monday, December 30, 2002 - 9:59 am: | |
Greg - you are correct. I checked several of my owner's manuals, and 5,000 to 6,000 miles is recommended. I was thinking back to the old days of some of the older cars I have owned, and to oil and shop recommendations, both biased.
The principle is the same, however. Oil's lubricating properties deteriorates through contamination with gasoline.
Jim S. |
Greg Rodgers (Joechristmas)
Member
Username: Joechristmas
Post Number: 562
Registered: 3-2001
| | Posted on Monday, December 30, 2002 - 6:15 am: | |
... |
david handa (Davehanda)
Member
Username: Davehanda
Post Number: 389
Registered: 5-2001
| | Posted on Sunday, December 29, 2002 - 11:56 pm: | |
James,
Which "manufacturers" are recommending oil changes every 3,000 miles? OIL manufacturers?
:-)
I've never seen a recent car manufacturer recommend oil changes that frequent, with the exception of "severe service". |
James Selevan (Jselevan)
Member
Username: Jselevan
Post Number: 281
Registered: 6-2002
| | Posted on Sunday, December 29, 2002 - 10:30 pm: | |
James - there is logic to your comment about limiting choke use to 30 seconds. I do not agree with the period cited (30 seconds), but the principle is based on any engine running rich.
Why do you think manufacturers recommend changing oil every 3,000 miles or so? It is not because the oil ages, or fails with heat, but because gasoline contaminates the oil and changes it lubricating properties. Where does this fuel come from? It mixes with oil by minute amounts getting past piston rings. The choke provides a rich mixture, with two adverse affects. One, it washes oil off of the cylinder wall, and two, it contributes more gasoline that may enter the oil system past the rings.
Thirty seconds is likely not a magic number, but the principle of not running an engine rich is. (Of course, there is the 3rd, obvious issue of fouled plugs, but this is self evident).
Jim S. |
Paul Newman (Newman)
Member
Username: Newman
Post Number: 960
Registered: 12-2001
| | Posted on Sunday, December 29, 2002 - 8:31 pm: | |
Matt, you dont need a choke at the equator. Thats why its fouling plugs. |
Matt Lemus (Mlemus)
Intermediate Member
Username: Mlemus
Post Number: 1145
Registered: 8-2002
| | Posted on Sunday, December 29, 2002 - 6:41 pm: | |
Well I have been starting the car without the choke and the plugs have stopped fouling. I guess I will stop using the choke. |
billy bob (Fatbillybob)
Junior Member
Username: Fatbillybob
Post Number: 122
Registered: 8-2002
| | Posted on Sunday, December 29, 2002 - 6:32 pm: | |
Now I'm LOL! "I guess edwardo created the choke circut for all those "out of tune" ferraris."... I'm with sweede and JRV. You either need to do this dance or do nothing weather dependant. Edwardo and Luigi are brothers. After looking at the pasta they call wiring in modern Ferraris they are just stepping into modern times. Time to stop f**king with mechanical stuff like chokes and retarded retard points and f**k up the customers electronics! Enzo is laughing at the F1 competition and laughing at use for buying his cars
|
Dr. I. M. Ibrahim (Coachi)
Junior Member
Username: Coachi
Post Number: 165
Registered: 5-2002
| | Posted on Sunday, December 29, 2002 - 8:18 am: | |
the methods described work great in all carburetted Ferraris. I never use the choke. My 71 Daytona doesn't even have one. My 73 does but it has been disconnected. Cars will start without choke. After all, 4 to 6 carburettors have plenty of fuel, and excess is recirculated back to the tank. Always works forme. |
Steve (Steve)
Junior Member
Username: Steve
Post Number: 243
Registered: 2-2001
| | Posted on Sunday, December 29, 2002 - 7:08 am: | |
I use the method that JRV described. When I first got the car the problem I had was that you would end up fouling out a few plugs and that would be it. At that point I found it easer to feather the throttle when starting even in 20 degree weather. |
Richelson (Richelson)
Member
Username: Richelson
Post Number: 836
Registered: 12-2001
| | Posted on Sunday, December 29, 2002 - 6:19 am: | |
Engine wear from using a choke? It adds extra fuel. The worst thing that I can think of is fouled plugs then if they are extremely fouled the car won't start. |
Paul Newman (Newman)
Member
Username: Newman
Post Number: 954
Registered: 12-2001
| | Posted on Saturday, December 28, 2002 - 11:56 pm: | |
James, I havent heard the 30 sec rule of thumb. Carbon build up is one thing i would be concerned about rather than engine wear. I use mine until the car doesnt hesitate off idle and have had no adverse effects. |
Paul Newman (Newman)
Member
Username: Newman
Post Number: 953
Registered: 12-2001
| | Posted on Saturday, December 28, 2002 - 11:53 pm: | |
Maybe you can help me JRV, a friend in santa monica just bought a porsche and needs a tech to service it. It seems the only good tech there fled the area, something about negligence and court cases. |
James Angle (Jimangle)
New member
Username: Jimangle
Post Number: 14
Registered: 9-2002
| | Posted on Saturday, December 28, 2002 - 11:46 pm: | |
I was taught to never use a choke for more than 30 sec. If you do, you risk serious engine wear. Is that true of a Ferrari? |
Paul Newman (Newman)
Member
Username: Newman
Post Number: 952
Registered: 12-2001
| | Posted on Saturday, December 28, 2002 - 11:37 pm: | |
you might want to tell keith blumel as well. just read his v8 book. Oh sorry, I forgot you cant read big words. |
JRV (Jrvall)
Member
Username: Jrvall
Post Number: 442
Registered: 11-2002
| | Posted on Saturday, December 28, 2002 - 10:53 pm: | |
paul, you might want to re-check your forged crank...
HaHaHaHaHa! |
Paul Newman (Newman)
Member
Username: Newman
Post Number: 945
Registered: 12-2001
| | Posted on Saturday, December 28, 2002 - 7:09 pm: | |
"totally agree, never fails on a properly tuned engine"
LOL!
I guess edwardo created the choke circut for all those "out of tune" ferraris. Glad he did or mine would never start. |
JRV (Jrvall)
Member
Username: Jrvall
Post Number: 437
Registered: 11-2002
| | Posted on Saturday, December 28, 2002 - 10:01 am: | |
>>>I've had my 308 Dino for two years now, have never used the choke, and have had no problems. The ritual is:
1.Ignition on for 20 seconds to build fuel pressure
2. Two or three pumps on the accelorator pedal.
3. Turn over the engine while slightly depressing the accelorator pedal.
4. Feather the throttle and monitor the revs after starting, for a minute or so until even idle is possible. <<<
Totally Agree !!! Never Fails on a properly tuned engine!!!
If the choke cable sticks on (which was very, very common)it can foul the plugs and/or lead to red hot cracked headers.
|
Rolly Astrom (Swede)
New member
Username: Swede
Post Number: 26
Registered: 7-2001
| | Posted on Saturday, December 28, 2002 - 9:57 am: | |
I've had my 308 Dino for two years now, have never used the choke, and have had no problems. The ritual is:
1.Ignition on for 20 seconds to build fuel pressure
2. Two or three pumps on the accelorator pedal.
3. Turn over the engine while slightly depressing the accelorator pedal.
4. Feather the throttle and monitor the revs after starting, for a minute or so until even idle is possible.
This was demonstrated to me by the car's former owner and I have had no need to deviate from it. Living near Toronto, the car is stored for the winter now, but the process has worked well through the spring, summer and fall seasons.
It works for me......I'm sticking to it. |
Bruno (Originalsinner)
Member
Username: Originalsinner
Post Number: 837
Registered: 5-2002
| | Posted on Friday, December 27, 2002 - 9:28 pm: | |
I always use mine with no problems.Cant imagine not using it here in the frozen N.E..
I must say I do love my injected car in this weather.turn key.Walk away.Warm up.Come back.Drive. |
Matt Lemus (Mlemus)
Intermediate Member
Username: Mlemus
Post Number: 1130
Registered: 8-2002
| | Posted on Friday, December 27, 2002 - 9:05 am: | |
Thanks guys. I guess the only thing I will choke now is the chicken. |
Greg Rodgers (Joechristmas)
Member
Username: Joechristmas
Post Number: 554
Registered: 3-2001
| | Posted on Friday, December 27, 2002 - 5:52 am: | |
I use my choke. I didn't at first and it was would start fine without it but my car responds much better with the choke after I tuned all of my carbs. |
magoo (Magoo)
Advanced Member
Username: Magoo
Post Number: 3904
Registered: 2-2001
| | Posted on Thursday, December 26, 2002 - 9:08 pm: | |
I think as long as there spool valves are working freely there is no reason to not use it. I have used it on my 79 308 carb. GTS and never had any problem. I think a lot on people have a problem in that they don't have the fast idle cam adjusted correctly and the engine loads up thus fouling the plugs. |
Paul Newman (Newman)
Member
Username: Newman
Post Number: 914
Registered: 12-2001
| | Posted on Thursday, December 26, 2002 - 5:37 pm: | |
Well...I use my choke regularly and have no problems ever. When I rebuilt my carbs I inspected the fuel enrichment spool valves and they worked fine before and they still do now.(the car had sat unused for 8 years) I have also heard to not use the choke but find my car starts better and actually idles without performing any tricks and I dont need to sit there babying it until it warms up. Just another view on the subject, not trying to slam anyone. |
Mitchell Le (Yelcab1)
Member
Username: Yelcab1
Post Number: 476
Registered: 11-2001
| | Posted on Thursday, December 26, 2002 - 4:30 pm: | |
Never needed the choke, never will. Then again, I live in California. |
Steve Magnusson (91tr)
Intermediate Member
Username: 91tr
Post Number: 1255
Registered: 1-2001
| | Posted on Thursday, December 26, 2002 - 4:06 pm: | |
Matt -- The danger using the choke is that the starter spool valves inside the DCNFs can stick open a bit (even though the choke lever is fully returned to the home position in the cabin). Best to feather the acc. pumps for cold-enrichment as Dave H. said, and it's also helpful to disable (or greatly reduce) the mechanical fast idle gizmo -- JMO. |
david handa (Davehanda)
Member
Username: Davehanda
Post Number: 358
Registered: 5-2001
| | Posted on Thursday, December 26, 2002 - 3:01 pm: | |
Don't use it, I never did in any weather...Just pump the throttle a couple times (cold) and hold it down maybe 1/3 and crank. Feather it to keep it from stalling.....This has been discussed several times in the past and the agreed method of starting.
The risk is that you will foul the plugs, or possibly end up with the engine racing away, if you leave the car for something.... |
Matt Lemus (Mlemus)
Intermediate Member
Username: Mlemus
Post Number: 1126
Registered: 8-2002
| | Posted on Thursday, December 26, 2002 - 2:45 pm: | |
I was the Ferrari in Woodland Hills today and the service manager Alan Johnson to NOT use the choke at all. Any thoughts? |