| Author | Message | ||
| G. J. Germane (Germane)
New member Username: Germane Post Number: 12 Registered: 7-2002 |
If there is an engine out there that cannot live without leaded fuel (and most can be modified to operate with unleaded fuel), one can purchase leaded racing fuel, and blend it with a high quality unleaded fuel. "High quality" means a fuel with a high alkylate hydrocarbon content. Saturated hydrocarbons, specifically hydrocarbons in the alkylate family, are more susceptible to the octane improving qualities of tetra-ethyl or tetra-methyl lead than are other hydrocarbon families. For example, 1 g lead per gallon of alkylate (some aviation fuel is mostly alkylate) might bump the research octane 3-4 points, while 1 g lead in a gallon of toluene (or xylene) might improve only 2 octane numbers. One can obtain racing gasoline with 4+ grams of lead per gallon (there was once a gentleman's agreement with a controlling governmental authority that no leaded fuel would contain more than 4.3 g lead per gallon. Some racing fuels, however, exceed that lead concentration). There is a diminishing return with lead as an octane improver. The first gram of lead per gallon is more effective than the fourth gram, for example. My own racing fuel development testing revealed an insignificant difference between 5 g and 6 g per gallon, unless the base fuel was a highly branched paraffin, like iso-octane, or alkylate with a high concentration of iso-octane. If one mixed one gallon of 4 g lead/gal fuel with unleaded gasoline, the resulting mixture would contain 1 g lead/gal. It's a hassle, but 1 g lead per gallon is enough to provide lubrication benefit and would give a significant octane boost to the unleaded blended fuel. Again, if an engine requires leaded fuel to live, this is one way to obtain it. If anyone is interested in more information on the subject, I would respectfully direct you to the paper "A Technical Review of Automotive Racing Fuels," Society of Automotive Engineers Transactions, 1985 and Society of Automotive Engineers Fuels and Lubricants Journal, 1, 876-878, 1985, that was written by this responder. | ||
| John S Brown (Brownyjs)
New member Username: Brownyjs Post Number: 3 Registered: 2-2002 |
Gents,I have a 1980 2 valve carby GTS. I run unleaded Shell OPTIMAX which is a hi density, hi octane blended fuel. I have installed a "Fuelstar" device into the carby fuel line from the pump. The "Fuelstar' adds tin into the fuel as a catalyst, upper lubricant and a replacement for lead. The device appears to be a product developed in New Zealand and is generally available but not apparently widely promoted. My F mechanic has been fitting them to unleaded F cars and others for some time. I have really noticed the difference in performance since the change together with cleaner plugs and much less carbon deposit from the exhaust. The "Fuelstar" is easy enough to install and relies on the mechanical vibration from the engine when running to agaitate the cannister containing the Tin components around the fuel flow. Check out the websites. www.fuelstar.com www.hicloneqld.com www.shellau.com | ||
| Mark Eberhardt (Me_k)
Member Username: Me_k Post Number: 285 Registered: 5-2002 |
I think lead is a 30s, mid to late if I recall. I know the same guy who invented freon invented putting lead in gas. It's really not legal to run race or av gas in a street car. That said, often you have to tell the guy at the airport that you have an ultralight plane you keep at home and need the fuel for that. Also, in every town I've lived in there is at least 1 gas station that has av gas, but you can't put it in your car, you need to fill a container...off road use only. Do they still sell leaded race fuel? | ||
| James Glickenhaus (Napolis)
Member Username: Napolis Post Number: 273 Registered: 10-2002 |
I had similar questions re my 1931 Deusenberg. When I enquired I found that that era gas didn't have lead and was very low octane. (65) Lead seems to have come along later. | ||
| Andrew A. Illes (Andyilles)
New member Username: Andyilles Post Number: 1 Registered: 10-2002 |
Gentlemen: Up until approximately 1965, Ferrari (as most builders) used relatively soft cast iron valve seats which did rely on lead for cushioning. Visualize that at 8,000 RPM, valves open and slam shut 4,000 times a minute.. 67 times a second!! Anyone who claims the old iron seats don't erode without lead in high RPM engines - and fast - is just ignorant! With post '65 "hard" seats you can burn unleaded mule piss if you want. Lead in gas has no effect on valve guides/stems at all, and minimal, if any, effect on rings. Ric.. you DO have leaded available in Europe, and all over the world in fact. Every airport has 110 and/or 100 LL (Low Lead) Avgas. Don't worry about the "low" part... that's just relative to "old" avgas... LL is a way higher lead content than auto gas ever had. Re: Running until they need a valve job. This is NOT a good idea!! In "iron seat" engines, no lead initially only damages seats. But as they recede, clearances tighten fast and you WILL burn expensive valves (exhaust first), plus likely backfire the hell out of your carbs. Tip: If you're getting heads done anyway, don't use Ferrari guides or stem seals - they suck... get silicone/bronze and use BMW blue seals. Don't toss valves if they only have stem wear. Have them ground to 7 or 7.5mm (deepen the keeper slots) and ream the guides to that. Saves money, increases flow a lot. No, they WON'T break! Also, if you have a plain-iron liner (pre-TR) car with bore wear, consider hard-chroming the liners back to piston size instead of replacing or going oversize. Almost as good as TR-up nicasil. | ||
| Ric Rainbolt (Ricrain)
Member Username: Ricrain Post Number: 351 Registered: 2-2002 |
Tom, therein is the problem. A number of us own Euro Ferraris that were made when leaded fuel was still available in Europe. My Euro TR has the "big neck" with a small neck insert. However, I run unleaded. Leaded isn't really available, and I'm not very likely to add lead manually. I'll accept the additional wear, if any to my OEM valve seats. | ||
| Tom Bakowsky (Tbakowsky)
Junior Member Username: Tbakowsky Post Number: 121 Registered: 9-2002 |
Here is a simple way of telling if your car needs unleaded fuel. Just look at the filler neck were you stick the nozzel for the gas. If the filler neck has no flap and the hole is very large then it is a car that needs leaded gas. If the hole is of a standard size like on your newer cars and has a splash flap then the car was designed for unleaded fuel. The two different diameters of fuel filler nozzels were so people could not put leaded gas into an unleaded car. I would suggest that if your car was built in the time when leaded fuel was used,then add the lead additive and drive the damn thing without worring. | ||
| Ric Rainbolt (Ricrain)
Member Username: Ricrain Post Number: 349 Registered: 2-2002 |
VE + CR probably describes 95% of all factors that affect BMEP, and is easier to conceptualize. All of the things that make a combustion chamber more efficient, Ferrari does. That's why the engines are typically no less than 80 HP/L. In my own US-spec 81 GTSi, I used 87 and 89 octane gas with no problems. At 50K miles, the pistons and heads had no evidence of knock, although quite a bit of oil fouling (crappy OEM valve guides). BTW, the factory ignition curves are horrible at low speed on US spec cars of that era. | ||
| Mark Eberhardt (Me_k)
Member Username: Me_k Post Number: 274 Registered: 5-2002 |
Rexrcr, I agree with you completely, static CR doesn't mean that much by itself, it's the dynamic #s that matter. A couple more things to add to your list which I believe are quite important are combustion chamber shape, # of plugs (distance from plug to furthest piont in chamber really), and squish area design. I think the ports really only come into play in determining cylinder fill, which is part of the BMEP. | ||
| JRV (Jrvall)
Member Username: Jrvall Post Number: 464 Registered: 11-2002 |
Chevron has an opinion on this also: http://www.chevron.com/prodserv/fuels/bulletin/unld-gas/ Yes stellite...commonly used...need links? ;-) | ||
| Timothy J. Dressel (Tjd)
Junior Member Username: Tjd Post Number: 57 Registered: 4-2001 |
Regarding seat material, I recall "Stelite" (sp?) being mentioned many years ago in US alum. engines. (61-63 GM 215") --tim d | ||
| Rexrcr (Rexrcr)
New member Username: Rexrcr Post Number: 49 Registered: 11-2002 |
I'll just throw this thought into the mix and see what you guys think: IMHO it is Brake Mean Effective Pressure (BMEP) in the combustion chamber that is the better (truer) determinate of engine octane requirements. Static compression ratio (CR) means little to a very dynamic system. System, as in intake plenum, runner design, valve shape, shrouding, exhaust port design, scavenging characteristics, cam characteristics and timing, etc. I understand why it is easier to discuss octane requirements in terms of CR as it is easier to measure. Here's some additional food for thought: http://www.theoldone.com/articles/The_Soft_Head_1999/ | ||
| James Glickenhaus (Napolis)
Member Username: Napolis Post Number: 257 Registered: 10-2002 |
JRV I use unleaded in my P4, MK-IV,Lola, and Deusenberg without any problem. To avoid starting damage I try to crank them until oil psi comes up before starting them. Your point about lining up screw heads is well taken. Best Jim | ||
| JRV (Jrvall)
Member Username: Jrvall Post Number: 455 Registered: 11-2002 |
Ric, Sometimes it takes more than one page, one source or one paragragh to gain enough input to put things in 'True Perspective'. To that end, I gathered together input from many different sources to shed more light on this subject. Ric, you are right that cast iron seats are used in later cars, however, you might want to note the reference to a 'change' in the 'early 80's to "**Special**" cast iron, which would be a "special alloy" just like I originally stated, although it is NOT inconel as I mistakenly posted. Regards, JRV ps: I'll provide the different links if neccesary. ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ **Some other engine changes were made at the time. The compression ratio was increased - through new pistons - from 8.8:1 to 9.2:1; the cylinder liners were made from aluminium electrostatically coated with Nikasil (a nickel-silicon carbide); ****a special cast iron ***was used for the valve seats, tellurium copper for the valve guides and a nimonic alloy for the exhaust valves. Outwardly there was nothing to distinguish the latest Mondial from the earlier versions beyond dropping the '8' from the designation and the addition of 'quattrovalvole' in lower-case script to 'Mondial' as the model designator at the rear of the car. ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ **Will my car need expensive modifications to run on unleaded fuel? As a general rule, all FIAT group cars with forced induction (Volumex or Turbo) have valves, guides and valve seats of sufficiently high specification to run perfectly happily on unleaded fuel. It may be necessary to use super unleaded to avoid pinking (detonation) but it is worth trying a gallon or so of ordinary unleaded to check this out. If your engine pinks then top up with super, if it doesn't then you are OK with the cheap stuff. Things are a little more complicated for other models. The main effect of using unleaded fuel (of sufficient octane rating) on engines designed for the leaded variety is to accelerate valve seat wear. This will mean that exhaust tappet clearances will close up more rapidly. If you find that you have to adjust exhaust tappets by any significant amount then you will eventually have to remove the cylinder head and have it uprated. I see no point in doing it now as the same amount of work will be needed whether the seats are in good condition or completely shagged out. A less likely problem could occur with excessive valve guide wear or burnt out valves. With the former you will get apparently noisy tappets but with correct clearances and possibly excessive oil consumption. With the latter you will have to do the head job sooner rather than later! As to valve seats, the machinists at Norman Racing Group in Berkeley, California, who build lots of Alfa, Lotus, Ferrari, Norton, etc., heads, tell me that have seen no evidence of valve seat damage due to unleaded gasoline. And unleaded has been the standard now in California for many years. So you probably don't need to worry about your valve seats. ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ ***If the vehicle was previously operated with leaded gasoline, then the tank as far as possible must be run dry and before installation, the vehicle absolutely must be driven with a full tank of unleaded fuel in order to exclude damage to the catalyst by lead. Relevant investigations by car manufacturers (Mercedes Benz) regarding lead free operation of engines with not-hardened valve seats conclusively show that as a result of prior long-term actual operating time with leaded gasoline sufficient lead diffuses into the valve seats (memory effect), so that no negative effects are to be expected on the life span of the valve seats. | ||
| Ric Rainbolt (Ricrain)
Member Username: Ricrain Post Number: 338 Registered: 2-2002 |
So all five of the WSMs that I referenced are simply wrong? And the uninstalled OEM seats I have in my garage are magnetic why? (Hint: Inconel alloys are almost all non-magnetic) Here's a scan from the Mondial WSM, the others read basically the same...  So Ferrari just made this up? And then Ferrari circulated a technical bulletin in November 1993 just to reinforce the lie? "Cast Iron ..oh really...that would be interesting to see. " Well, other than your unsubstantiated denial, there's no other evidence to support your claim, yet, I have at least 5 references to the contrary. Somewhere around the time of the 328, Ferrari changed the composition of the valve seats, but to say they've never used cast iron is simply wrong. | ||
| Dave328GTB (Hardtop)
Member Username: Hardtop Post Number: 365 Registered: 1-2002 |
In the US, 76 and 77 308's did not have cats,so could use leaded fuel which is no longer available, so it's a mute point anyway. The earlier cars run just fine on unleaded. Octane requiremants vary mainly with the compression ratio. The higher the compression, the higher the octane needed to prevent knocking. 308's, especially US 308's ran about 8/1 comp. ratio which will burn regular just fine. 328's are more like 9/1 and the owner's manual says to use premium, but I'm sure midgrades would be fine. 348's and newer definitely require high octane gas. During leaded fuel days, valves were cut to have sharper edges than now to knock off deposits from leaded gas. Perhaps that's where the talk of modified heads comes from, but this is definitely not required to run unleaded as long as octane is sufficient. Dave | ||
| Greg (Greg512tr)
Junior Member Username: Greg512tr Post Number: 60 Registered: 2-2002 |
JRV and all-Thanks for the good info. Now when I look back and see the oil smoke wafting out of the tail pipe I know my engine is getting sufficient lubrication  . | ||
| Mark Eberhardt (Me_k)
Member Username: Me_k Post Number: 271 Registered: 5-2002 |
JRV, Here is the spec for inconel 600, the rest of the family is similar. Component Wt. % C Max 0.15 Cr 14 - 17 Cu Max 0.5 Fe 6 - 10 Mn Max 1 Ni Min 72 S Max 0.015 Si Max 0.5 You can see that the primary component is nickel. It does contain a small % of iron, but to be a steel, iron needs to be the main component. The link you posted says "can be thought of as super-stainless steels". It does not claim they are stainless steels, because clearly they are not steels at all. | ||
| JRV (Jrvall)
Member Username: Jrvall Post Number: 454 Registered: 11-2002 |
I've seen inside Ferrari engines as old as 1953 212's to 355's..never seen cast iron seats yet Ric. Still have a few extras laying around I can send you if you want another look. Cast Iron ..oh really...that would be interesting to see. Oh and Mark...> Inconel� refers to a family of trademarked high strength austenitic nickel-chromium-iron alloys that have exceptional anti-corrosion and heat-resistance properties. These alloys contain high levels of nickel and can be thought of as super-stainless steels. Inconel alloys are used for a variety of extreme applications including navy boat exhaust ducts, submarine propulsion motors, undersea cable sheathing, heat exchanger tubing and gas turbine shroud rings. http://www.burnsstainless.com/TechArticles/Inconel_article/inconel_article.html | ||
| Ric Rainbolt (Ricrain)
Member Username: Ricrain Post Number: 337 Registered: 2-2002 |
JRV: Where are you getting your info? I have installed several sets of Ferrari OEM valve seats in 308 motors, and they're not Inconel. Secondly, the information you're giving is in direct conflict with a technical memo circulated by Ferrari (as referenced in my earlier post). Thirdly, I have several Ferrari WSMs (308GT4, 512TR, Mondial 8 & QV, Testarossa) that state that the valve seats from earlier engines are, in fact, cast iron. | ||
| Mark Eberhardt (Me_k)
Member Username: Me_k Post Number: 270 Registered: 5-2002 |
If they're inconel, they should be fine. BTW, inconel is a nickel alloy, not a steel | ||
| JRV (Jrvall)
Member Username: Jrvall Post Number: 447 Registered: 11-2002 |
Courtesy of AAA. Leaded Gas Ban Takes Effect: Older Cars Need Special Care Courtesy AAA As leaded gasoline disappears from America's gas stations, older cars may need special care to continue running like new, according to the American Automobile Association. Tetra-ethyl lead was banned from all gasoline after December 31, 1995 (*7 years ago) in accordance with the Clean Air Act Amendments of 1990. "Drivers of vintage vehicles may have to use fuel additives or make mechanical modifications to maintain their car's performance," said George Giek, managing director of AAA Automotive Services. "For owners of newer cars, the demise of leaded fuel will not be a problem." Lead was originally added to gasoline to boost octane levels and provide lubrication to vital engine components. Lead was removed from gasoline because it **damaged emission-reducing catalytic converters** that began appearing on cars in the **early 1970s**. The absence of lead as a lubricant, however, can cause damage to the relatively **soft cast iron** valve seats on older engines (not including Ferrari's). To keep older cars running smoothly, fuel additives that create the equivalent of low-lead gasoline are available at most auto parts stores. Regular use of these products can help lubricate valve seats and guides, preventing premature engine wear. It is important that additives are lead supplements and not octane enhancers, which may not provide the needed lubrication (for soft cast iron). A long-term solution is to replace the engine's original valve seats with **hardened steel inserts** (always used by Ferrari in the first place). *This modification should be done by a qualified machine shop* (totally irrelivant to Ferrari engines). Costs can vary widely depending on the vehicle involved. Many drivers of older cars have already made the transition and leaded gas has disappeared from most service stations. **More than 90 percent** of cars on the road today were designed to use unleaded fuel. AAA is a not-for-profit federation of 113 motor clubs with more than 1,000 offices providing 38 million members in the United States and Canada with travel, insurance, financial and auto-related services. | ||
| JRV (Jrvall)
Member Username: Jrvall Post Number: 446 Registered: 11-2002 |
>>Greg, My guess it that a 1960 anything has cast iron seats in the head.<< Sorry, no they don't have cast iron seats, they have a type of stainless alloy called 'inkonel'. ***Ferrari's have never needed the lead to lubricate, they have always used special alloy inserts and guides. *** | ||
| Mark Eberhardt (Me_k)
Member Username: Me_k Post Number: 269 Registered: 5-2002 |
Mike, Your QV will run fine on 87 unleaded. If you were to run leaded gas, your plug life would be much less, and the combustion camber would get build up in it. The valves and guides would last probably last a little longer. The rings are shot about the same time as the guides anyway, so really, nothing gained. Stick with unleaded. Greg, My guess it that a 1960 anything has cast iron seats in the head. That means it wants lead or a lead substitute. Running unleaded, it will probably last about 50k miles before needing a vavle job, then put in hard seats and your good for another 150k. | ||
| JRV (Jrvall)
Member Username: Jrvall Post Number: 445 Registered: 11-2002 |
>>How about the use of unleaded fuel in my '60 PF Coupe?<< Do you drive it 12K-20K miles a year? If not, then dry starts will negate by a wide margin any leaded fuel benifits. Lead ruins cats. On older engines lead increased octane and added some lubriosity to the burnt charge. Ferrari's have never needed the lead to lubricate, they have always used special alloy inserts and guides. Older Ferrari's are even known to smoke a little...oil in the exhaust....how much more lubrication can you get than raw oil? Older engines NEVER come apart for repair because of lack of lead in the gasoline, that you can take to the bank. If you don't have CATS and want to run lead, knock yourself out, but don't expect any cost saving results. The parts are fully lubricated with the engines Oil Supply...you want less friction and wear, use GOOD Oil, Change Often and use a Graphite Additive and try to minimize DRY STARTS. That will pay dividends in terms of cost saving longivity. | ||
| mike 308 (Concorde)
Junior Member Username: Concorde Post Number: 73 Registered: 8-2002 |
Would a 308/QV that had the cat removed benefit from leaded gas? I've just been running super unleaded 93 Octane. | ||
| Greg (Greg512tr)
Junior Member Username: Greg512tr Post Number: 59 Registered: 2-2002 |
How about the use of unleaded fuel in my '60 PF Coupe? I am not concerned about knocking as the compression ration is only 8.57/1 but does it "need" lead for engine health? | ||
| Ric Rainbolt (Ricrain)
Member Username: Ricrain Post Number: 335 Registered: 2-2002 |
Here are the CRs of various 308s... Model: US / Euro 308 (carb): 8.8 / 8.8 308i: 8.8 / 8.8 308QV: 8.6 / 9.2 328: 9.2 / 9.8 Ferrari specifically recommends against the use of unleaded fuels in non-catalytic cars, especially on 308 carb, 308, 208, 288 GTO, 365BB and 512BB models. For more information, see: http://www.rainbolt.com/ferrari/ferrari-leadfree.pdf Keep in mind that if a Euro car has had catalytics added, you don't want to use lead as it will attack them. | ||
| Paul Newman (Newman)
Member Username: Newman Post Number: 957 Registered: 12-2001 |
Frank, you dont need leaded fuel, you have steel valve seats. All aluminum heads come with a seat insert made of some sort of steel. Dont worry and running a higher octane rated fuel than required will do nothing harmful but cost you more at the pump. | ||
| magoo (Magoo)
Advanced Member Username: Magoo Post Number: 3923 Registered: 2-2001 |
This is strictly a non researched statement by me but I would think if leaded fuels were available the older Ferraris, 308s would have less valve guide problems. It is true using leaded fuels with cats will end up ruining the cats but if the cats were removed I think leaded fuels would be better in the long run in lubricating the valve guides and thus longer life to the guides. In other words I feel Ferrari didn't use the proper guides in those cars to stand up to the heat of unleaded fuels with no lubrication of lead. Just a thought. | ||
| Matt Lemus (Mlemus)
Intermediate Member Username: Mlemus Post Number: 1142 Registered: 8-2002 |
Frank, I was told by Ferrari due to the compression to run 91 oct. | ||
| Frank Parker (Parkerfe)
Intermediate Member Username: Parkerfe Post Number: 1619 Registered: 9-2001 |
G.J., what about my BB512i Boxer. It is a euro car with no cats. Should I use a lead substitute with the 93 octane unleaded fuel I'm now using ? | ||
| Mark Eberhardt (Me_k)
Member Username: Me_k Post Number: 264 Registered: 5-2002 |
Another octane note, a 308QV runs fine on 87 octane, the US version is only 8.6 CR. I run a blower on mine at 10 psi boost, inlet temp 280F, now it what's 93 octane. | ||
| DES (Sickspeed)
Member Username: Sickspeed Post Number: 566 Registered: 8-2002 |
Um... wow. | ||
| G. J. Germane (Germane)
New member Username: Germane Post Number: 10 Registered: 7-2002 |
The Ferrari engine is designed for unleaded fuel. A general rule: If the vehicle is equipped with a catalytic converter, the engine has been designed for unleaded fuel. Leaded (tetraethyl lead (TEL) or tetramethyl lead (TML)) fuel is blended with scavenger compounds (e.g., ethylene dibromide) that combine with the lead in the combustion chamber to form lead bromide that is carried out of the engine with the exhaust. The lead is primarily an octane improver, but is also used as an upper cylinder lubricant (valves seats, pistons, valve guides, cylinder walls). Oxidized lead and lead bromide deposits contribute to spark plug fouling and catalytic converter degradation. Remove the lead and give up the octane benefit and the lubrication benefit, but achieve cleaner spark plugs, fewer combustion chamber deposits, and catalytic converter efficiency. An engine designed for leaded fuel but operated with unleaded fuel would eventually experience accelerated valve and valve seat wear because of the reduced lubrication available. An engine designed for unleaded fuel utilizes materials for the valves and valve seats that can tolerate the reduced lubrication. A Ferrari engine needs high octane fuel because the compression ratio is high. The Ferrari combustion chamber shape (which is similar to that of many overhead cam engines) can actually increase the octane requirement of the engine (it's "hemi" type chamber has less effective squish area than do wedge-shaped combustion chambers). Newer engines with advanced electronic fuel injection and controls can reduce octane requirement by fuel mixture preparation and control, ignition timing and variable valve events. That's why newer high performance engines can operate at high compression ratios with unleaded fuel that may have a pump octane number of 91-93. For example, the BMW M5 engine has an 11.0:1 compression ratio! On 92 octane unleaded fuel. In the old days, engine octane requirements were so high that a performance engine needed 100 pump octane fuel. Such high octane was economically feasible only with TEL or TML. Another fuel-related comment: Octane rating does not correlate with the heating value of the fuel. A high octane fuel simply means it has a high resistance to combustion knock (or "pinging"), which, if allowed to persist, can lead to engine damage or destruction. | ||
| DES (Sickspeed)
Member Username: Sickspeed Post Number: 561 Registered: 8-2002 |
i was always under the impression that good cars didn't need high octane gas (which is exactly why my Aunt's navigator needs it), so i'm confused too, as to why a Ferrari would need anything other than 87...? A little clarity would be great... | ||
| Steve Magnusson (91tr)
Intermediate Member Username: 91tr Post Number: 1270 Registered: 1-2001 |
Paul J. -- If the for sale ad you mentioned was for a F, then as JRV said, ha ha ha... F heads already have a separate hardened valve seat so, in effect, they've all already been modified for unleaded fuel use. A cast iron head where the valve seat is part of the head itself sometimes doesn't do as well with unleaded fuel (lacking the lubricity characteristics of tetra-ethyl lead) so they could use a "mod" for unleaded operation. | ||
| JRV (Jrvall)
Member Username: Jrvall Post Number: 441 Registered: 11-2002 |
BTW: >>that stated that "X" amount had been spent on unleaded head conversion. << Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha !!! | ||
| JRV (Jrvall)
Member Username: Jrvall Post Number: 440 Registered: 11-2002 |
The heads and valves are irrelivant...lead screws up Cats, ...if the car has Cats~~unleaded...No Cats...anything you want. | ||
| Phil Bryson (Phildo)
New member Username: Phildo Post Number: 50 Registered: 8-2002 |
My 85 308QV runs 'super' grade unleaded (93 octane) | ||
| Matt Lemus (Mlemus)
Intermediate Member Username: Mlemus Post Number: 1141 Registered: 8-2002 |
unleaded. | ||
| Paul Jeffery (Peajay)
New member Username: Peajay Post Number: 9 Registered: 4-2002 |
I hope someone can clear up this basic question because I confess I am confused. I am looking for my first Ferrari, either a 308 or 328 GTS, I plan to buy the first good one in my price range that I can find (not easy of course). I have seen conflicting comments about whether these models take leaded or unleaded fuel, I just saw a for sale ad that stated that "X" amount had been spent on unleaded head conversion. So what is the answer, do they need unleaded or leaded fuel ????? I will be purchasing a European model by the way. thanks in advance Paul |