| Author | Message | ||
| Drew Altemara (Drewa)
Junior Member Username: Drewa Post Number: 91 Registered: 2-2002 |
Most premium grades sold by the majors have a slightly higher concentration of PFI/IVD (port fuel injection/intake valve detergent) additive than the regular and mid grades. However the Clean Air Act of 1990 mandated that ever since the beginning of 1995 that all gasoline sold at retail had to contain "keep clean" concentrations of detergents. Most companies put a slightly higher concentration in their premium grades attempting to "clean up" the fuel system. However if you put too much in it becomes counter productive. I put premium in my Ferrari. Mostly because of the octane requirement but also because oil companies take much more care in the production, shipping and segregate of premium mogas in getting it to retail. | ||
| david handa (Davehanda)
Member Username: Davehanda Post Number: 414 Registered: 5-2001 |
I have run Arco (!) mostly in my cars, and have put 155K miles on my Honda Accord....never pulled an injector either...car runs like a top, though I am pretty anal about making sure on the services are up to date. | ||
| Steve (Steve)
Member Username: Steve Post Number: 253 Registered: 2-2001 |
I can't remember when was the last time I used regular in any of my cars. I find that either Mobile or texaco hi-test has more detergents in it that keeps all of my FI and carb cars clean. So for the extra dime I go for the best.My wife's 89 Volvo with the base motor has had hi-test all of its 210K life so far and we never had to pull an injector. MPG's have always stayed +/- 5%. | ||
| mike 308 (Concorde)
Junior Member Username: Concorde Post Number: 77 Registered: 8-2002 |
I don't know about the other guys, but I look at it this way. Even if my tank was completely empty (18 gallons), to fill up my 308QV it costs me less than $2.00 total difference between mid grade and premium (at 10cents per gallon x18), so I just go with premium. | ||
| TomD (Tifosi)
Intermediate Member Username: Tifosi Post Number: 2130 Registered: 9-2001 |
one thing that I might mention is a lot of us add techron to our tanks every few months, keeps the injections systems in fine working order. I think it is also popular with the p-car folks | ||
| Mike Charness (Mcharness)
Junior Member Username: Mcharness Post Number: 146 Registered: 8-2002 |
Mark: Except the manual says 91 Ron, which equates to 87 Octane (US), so the essentially the manual says "regular" is ok. | ||
| Mark Eberhardt (Me_k)
Member Username: Me_k Post Number: 276 Registered: 5-2002 |
I'll add one small point. When unleaded first came out, fuel injection was still really only found on top end cars, only premium had additives to help keep it keep and working good. Today, all the grades are designed for injection. That might be why the manual says premium. | ||
| Mike Charness (Mcharness)
Junior Member Username: Mcharness Post Number: 144 Registered: 8-2002 |
OK, Magoo. If there's no difference or benefit, why do YOU use premium 93 octane in your car? | ||
| magoo (Magoo)
Advanced Member Username: Magoo Post Number: 3930 Registered: 2-2001 |
My 79 308 GTS engine has 8.8to1 compression ratio. Personally I think anything over a mid grade fuel is a waste, however I use a 93 octane. | ||
| Mark Eberhardt (Me_k)
Member Username: Me_k Post Number: 275 Registered: 5-2002 |
Eric, Everything you said sound right. Mike, I hate to tell you this, but I filled an empty tank with 86 by mistake once, I didn't even know there was such a thing, but it was fine too. That's actually what pushed me to adding a supercharger, no worries about detonation. There is no harm in running premium or race gas(no help either)if makes you more comfortable though. | ||
| Eric Stringer (Vette79)
New member Username: Vette79 Post Number: 5 Registered: 12-2002 |
sorry for the double post. it wasnt intended | ||
| Eric Stringer (Vette79)
New member Username: Vette79 Post Number: 4 Registered: 12-2002 |
ohhboy. ok this may be too late of a post for this thread but here goes. I read the other threads linked to here also. Bill is right... hi octane gas WILL NOT increase your power in any way, shape or form. Octane is a measure of the resistance the gasoline has to combustion... ie when your engine compresses it in the cylinder. the higher grade you use, the harder it is for the gas to explode.therefore there is no possble way to have a higher grade fuel increase power unless it is laced with nitro or something. same with the octane boosters. ill get to thoes later. now as far as the higher power from higher octane, the engines that REQUIRE high grade fuel make the power, not the gasoline itself. its a property of the engine... if you increase the compression of the engine it gains a small percentage of power. the gas has nothing to do with that power increase except to resist premature combustion(ie before the spark plug ignites it) in the chamber. by the way... OCTANE BOOSTERS ARE A WASTE OF MONEY. read the freakin label. it promises to increase your octane three points. not from say 93 octane to 96 octane. no no no. they mean POINT THREE as in 93 octane to 93.3 dont pay money for those, if you need to increase octane due to a compression above 11:1 with aluminum heads go with either good 93 octane or sunoco 96. it is true the 328/308/mondial engines only need 87 grade. their compression ratio was about 8. check and see what compression ratio your car is. below 9, 87 is fine. 9, 9.5-10, 91 is good.engines with either aluminum or specially designed combustion chamber heads and a compression of up to 11, 93 is probably fine. 11 is borderline.. if you have 11-11.5 or so go with 93 octane. anything above 11.5 with or without aluminum heads you have a race car and should know what the hell youre doing as far as gas in the first place :D. if you usually put 91/93 grade gasoline in your car, try a grade down from what you have. get your tank to the point where its pretty empty.. as empty as you can comfortably be to drive to the gas station. fll it up with the grade below what you normally use but only fill the tank 1/4 the way. take the car out and run it for a while, make sure that gas in the tank has circulated into the engine. again, be sure you didnt have much of the 93 or whatever your previous grade was in the tank, as it will increase your octane level. once you are sure you have the one-step-down grade running through the engine, punch it. run it hard. dont abuse it, just run it to its limits.... make it pull hard to redline(any gear, it doesnt matter.)listen to the engine very carefully the whole time. you will hear a fairly obvious ping-sound if the fuel is too low of a grade. if you hear no ping, and dont feel a sudden hesistation anywhere, then the fuel you are running is fine. if youd like, go back to the pump and try even a step down from that. the goal is to run the lowest grade of fuel your car will burn WITHOUT detonating, which is the ping sound you may hear. if you DO hear a ping, dont be alarmed, as the engines can take this a quite a few times with no ill result. any damage done to your engine due to that one or two pings means you have abused your car to a very good extent previously, either with bad maintenence or running it hard with too low grade fuel several times. it would be a surprise that it ran to the gas station. now if you were to run a whole tank of gas making it ping several times it would be a different story. anyway, if you did hear a ping, drive it back very nicely.. dont redline it or run it hard. baby it to prevent another detonation. once you are at the gas station fill the remaining 3/4 of the tank with the highest street grade of fuel, either 91 or 93. this would mean you had the fuel right in the first place.the reason you used the highest grade at the pump after finding out the step-down fuel was too low is because the higher grade, say 93 would balance a 87 fuel out to a safe point. once you have done this, dont run it hard until after 20 miles or so.. the higher grade you topped off the tank with will mix with the lower grade and increase the octane to a safe point. be sure you listen for a ping though. i have seen engines destroyed from people running a single tank of low grade fuel through a stout 12 compression motor. you will hear the ping if you listen for it. i hope that wasnt too confusing! | ||
| Eric Stringer (Vette79)
New member Username: Vette79 Post Number: 3 Registered: 12-2002 |
ohhboy. ok this may be too late of a post for tihs thread but here goes. I read the other threads linked to here also. Bill is right... hi octane gas WILL NOT increase your power in any way, shape or form. Octane is a measure of the resistance the gasoline has to combustion... ie when your engine compresses it in the cylinder. the higher grade you use, the harder it is for the gas to explode.therefore there is no possble way to have a higher grade fuel increase power unless it is laced with nitro or something. same with the octane boosters. ill get to thoes later. now as far as the higher power from higher octane, the engines that REQUIRE high grade fuel make the power, not the gasoline itself. its a property of the engine... if you increase the compression of the engine it gains a small percentage of power. the gas has nothing to do with that power increase except to resist premature combustion(ie before the spark plug ignites it) in the chamber. by the way... OCTANE BOOSTERS ARE A WASTE OF MONEY. read the freakin label. it promises to increase your octane three points. not from say 93 octane to 96 octane. no no no. they mean POINT THREE as in 93 octane to 93.3 dont pay money for those, if you need to increase octane due to a compression above 11:1 with aluminum heads go with either good 93 octane or sunoco 96. it is true the 328/308/mondial engines only need 87 grade. their compression ratio was about 8. check and see what compression ratio your car is. below 9, 87 is fine. 9, 9.5-10, 91 is good.engines with either aluminum or specially designed combustion chamber heads and a compression of up to 11, 93 is probably fine. 11 is borderline.. if you have 11-11.5 or so go with 93 octane. anything above 11.5 with or without aluminum heads you have a race car and should know what the hell youre doing as far as gas in the first place :D. if you usually put 91/93 grade gasoline in your car, try a grade down from what you have. get your tank to the point where its pretty empty.. as empty as you can comfortably be to drive to the gas station. fll it up with the grade below what you normally use but only fill the tank 1/4 the way. take the car out and run it for a while, make sure that gas in the tank has circulated into the engine. again, be sure you didnt have much of the 93 or whatever your previous grade was in the tank, as it will increase your octane level. once you are sure you have the one-step-down grade running through the engine, punch it. run it hard. dont abuse it, just run it to its limits.... make it pull hard to redline(any gear, it doesnt matter.)listen to the engine very carefully the whole time. you will hear a fairly obvious ping-sound if the fuel is too low of a grade. if you hear no ping, and dont feel a sudden hesistation anywhere, then the fuel you are running is fine. if youd like, go back to the pump and try even a step down from that. the goal is to run the lowest grade of fuel your car will burn WITHOUT detonating, which is the ping sound you may hear. if you DO hear a ping, dont be alarmed, as the engines can take this a quite a few times with no ill result. any damage done to your engine due to that one or two pings means you have abused your car to a very good extent previously, either with bad maintenence or running it hard with too low grade fuel several times. it would be a surprise that it ran to the gas station. now if you were to run a whole tank of gas making it ping several times it would be a different story. anyway, if you did hear a ping, drive it back very nicely.. dont redline it or run it hard. baby it to prevent another detonation. once you are at the gas station fill the remaining 3/4 of the tank with the highest street grade of fuel, either 91 or 93. this would mean you had the fuel right in the first place.the reason you used the highest grade at the pump after finding out the step-down fuel was too low is because the higher grade, say 93 would balance a 87 fuel out to a safe point. once you have done this, dont run it hard until after 20 miles or so.. the higher grade you topped off the tank with will mix with the lower grade and increase the octane to a safe point. be sure you listen for a ping though. i have seen engines destroyed from people running a single tank of low grade fuel through a stout 12 compression motor. you will hear the ping if you listen for it. i hope that wasnt too confusing! | ||
| TomD (Tifosi)
Intermediate Member Username: Tifosi Post Number: 2113 Registered: 9-2001 |
see this thread too, Steve included a good link http://www.ferrarichat.com/discus/messages/112/2665.html | ||
| bruce wellington (Bws88tr)
Intermediate Member Username: Bws88tr Post Number: 1363 Registered: 4-2002 |
mike i have a 88 tr and from the get-go i use high octane all the time, no after problems,nothing, it works fine... bruce hi tom  | ||
| Mike Charness (Mcharness)
Junior Member Username: Mcharness Post Number: 141 Registered: 8-2002 |
Tom, of course they're different. That's one of the major points I made in my original post. Bruce: Thanks for the tip. The most interesting of the old threads seems to be http://www.ferrarichat.com/discus/messages/112/3156.html In that, there's still no consensus of opinion. Some folks run premium, a couple run regular. Some say regular is fine but they run premium anyway. Some say running higher octane than you need causes problems, some say it doesn't hurt anything. Just adds to the confusion about what is "best". | ||
| TomD (Tifosi)
Intermediate Member Username: Tifosi Post Number: 2112 Registered: 9-2001 |
be careful the Euro ratings and the us rating systems are diff - as bruce says check that old thread | ||
| bruce wellington (Bws88tr)
Intermediate Member Username: Bws88tr Post Number: 1362 Registered: 4-2002 |
mike there should be a thread on this, as this was discussed in depth about 4 months ago, ccheck the old archives or plug in your info and hit search.. good luck, bruce | ||
| Mike Charness (Mcharness)
Junior Member Username: Mcharness Post Number: 140 Registered: 8-2002 |
What gasoline and octane do you use in your Ferrari? I've always used Premium 93 Octane (usually Exxon, Shell or Amoco). But in another thread on leaded versus unleaded gas, Mark Eberhardt said: "Your QV will run fine on 87 unleaded." I thought, 87 octane? That's REGULAR grade!! I pulled out my owners manual for my 308/QV and it says 91 RON. I thought, ok, I've been doing the right thing... this car wants PREMIUM gas, at least 91 octane. HOWEVER, a little more research told me that 91 RON is the european equivalent of US 87 CLC octane. We calculate octane in the US with what is called the CLC method, which is (RON + MON)/2 = CLC octane number, sometimes also called PON (Pump Octane Number). It makes me cringe to think I could really run 87 octane regular in my Ferrari! Uggh! If someone saw me doing that at the pump, they'd conclude I had a kit car! I might try mid-grade, though, and see if I can tell a difference. What's the big draw of using very high octane racing gas? I've never tried it, though a couple times I've put in an "octane booster" additive before going to the track. I couldn't really tell any difference. |