Verell Boaen (Verell)
Member
Username: Verell
Post Number: 485
Registered: 5-2001
| | Posted on Monday, January 06, 2003 - 12:30 pm: | |
Bottom line: We are stuck holding a large number of ES Bushings for Ferraris that DON'T fit 308/Mondials, BUT fit Testarossas, and MAY fit other Ferrari models. ES won't take more of them back/exchange them until they sell the initial batch of them that we returned. So we have about a dozen group buy participants that can't get get their 308 bushings until we find a way out of this catch 22.
If you have ANY non-308/Mondial Ferrari that needs suspension bushings, or you just want to help out, please read this as you may be able to help yourself and your fellow Ferrari tifosi.
You can start by calling a Ferrari dealer, and get the up to date bushing part numbers for your particular car and post your car model & bushing part #s here & also send them to me & Mark Manzo.
Any dealers and or parts people who are reading this, your help would be GREATLY APPRECIATED.
Also,Any one who has access to old bushings from their car (recently replaced) or who are willing to send ES their bushings so a correct set could be manufactured, please contact Mark Manzo.
The following eMAIL thread (in F*Chat newest 1st order) was sent to the FerrariList & the group buy participants. It gives the details of where things are, & a summary as to how things got there:
---------------------------------------------------
From: SMTP%"[email protected]"
To: Mark Manzonelli <[email protected]>,
...long - dist. list deleted - VB
CC:
Subj: Re: ES Bushings
Hi guys,
First of all, let me apologize for not being able to reply as quickly
since my time here at the Academy has been alloted down to the
minute! That being said, I believe ES made the original mistake and
now they are trying to cover up for it. Here are the facts:
When I called them the first time, I was put with a sales guy that
told me the 308's take the smaller in the front and the bigger in the
back. He also told me that the way they added these bushings to their
catalog was because someone ordered them custom for their 308 and ES
decided to keep the molds.
Enter phase two of the story. This salesperson (and his name escapes
me right now) unexpectedly quit one day and after being bounced
between salespeople, our order was handed off to the sales manager.
The rest of the story you all know...
My thought is that they want to shake the blame off and tell us it's
our fault so they don't have to "eat" their mistake. At this time, I
can't do much since my time is so limited, but mark my words, if this
company doesn't do something to straighten out this mistake they
made, I will bring to bear any and all resources I have at my
disposal to have them resolve this. Hopefully, they will come around
and we won't have to take it to that level. I'll give them till March
to resolve this (that's when I'll be moved in to my new area and will
have all the time to focus completely on this).
That's all I have for now. I'll try to check my emails as much as I
can to get your reactions/comments.
Dan
--- Mark Manzonelli <[email protected]> wrote:
> Does anyone else feel this way? There is some truth to what Tim is
> saying but at the same time we cannot prove what really happened.
>
> 1.. Did we (The List) order the incorrect parts? That is we did
> not do our homework?
> 2.. Did ES tell us these were the parts which are
> 308/328/Mondials required?
> I don't think we have enough "evidence" to prove this either way.
> Dan Ramos, what is your stand on this?
>
> I also agree ES should help us (the customer) out. They should
> make sure we get the parts out as soon as possible. If anyone wants
> to "push" ES, that is fine with me. The number there is
> 949-361-3935. Speak with Kevin Taeger the Sales Manager. He is
> our contact. His email is [email protected] . I am
> open to any ideas.
>
> Mark Manzonelli
> 314-434-6934
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: Timothy Fulmer
> To: Mark Manzonelli ; Le, Mitchell ;
...long - dist. list deleted - VB
> Sent: Wednesday, January 01, 2003 3:31 PM
> Subject: Re: ES Bushings
>
>
> Mark et all.
>
> I don't understand what Energy is doing to us. Let me get this
> straight...we go through all the work to find out which cars these
> fit and we see no benefit, they do. Have you let them know how
> many people on this list will need these bushings in the future?
> If we get all this info for them, they should at least exchange
> them for free. Afterwards they could advertise and sell a bunch of
> these. They already know what busings fit the 308 series only
> because of what we have done for them. I say you play hardball and
> let them know that over 2000 ferrari list and ferrari chat members
> will never use them again if they cannot honor this transaction,
> especially if we go through the work for them to let them know what
> their bushings even fit.
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: Mark Manzonelli
> To: Le, Mitchell ;
...long - dist. list deleted - VB
> Sent: Monday, December 30, 2002 7:59 PM
> Subject: Re: ES Bushings
>
>
> A question was asked:
>
> What does this mean for those of us who have returned the
> incorrect bushings and are waiting for the replacements?
>
> Let me explain. ES will not trade the correct bushings for the
> incorrect bushings due to the reasons I stated in my email. There
> are a few options:
>
> 1.. Purchase another eight bushings from either ES or from
> someone who currently has eight and is willing to sell theirs. ES
> will SELL us bushings but will not take back any more until they
> sell the 104 of the ones they currently have. Buyers or sellers,
> please contact me.
> 2.. We, as a group, try to collect information on the cars
> which use the larger bushings, sell them to others who desire
> them.. To do so we need to get the correct information of what
> bushings go on what cars. In turn, we will get the money back to
> purchase the correct bushings. No extra expense out of anyone's
> pocket.
> 3.. Anyone who wants their old bushings back and want to sell
> them on their own, I will be happy to give them to you. Or, I will
> ship them to anyone you want. (I suggest this to keep back the
> shipping costs.) If you sell yours, you then will have your money
> to purchase a new. correct set.
> 4.. Any other ideas?
> I have nothing to gain by keeping the old ones. They just take
> up space in my basement. This has been a real PITA for me. It is
> a challenge I want to win. I am just trying to help. I am making
> no money nor has any money been exchanged through me.
>
> Please respond and tell me what you as individuals would like
> to do. Better yet, find other buyers and help with the research so
> we can all get Poly bushings on our cars at a great price.
>
> Remember, if you do purchase another set of eight bushings,
> your pricing will still be lower than purchasing stock ones.
> Again, I do believe most of the older cars are in need of them.
>
> Those who want the bushings on their cars right away, I suggest
> purchasing. Those who are willing to accept the challenge, LET"S
> GO!!!!
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: Jeff Greenfield
> To: 'Mark Manzonelli' ; 'Ferrari, List' ; 'Le, Mitchell' ;
...long - dist. list deleted - VB
> Sent: Monday, December 30, 2002 5:43 PM
> Subject: RE: ES Bushings
>
>
> Mark -
>
>
>
> I (and I'm sure all of us reading this) really appreciate all
> the effort you have put into this.
>
>
>
> What does this mean for those of us who have returned the
> incorrect bushings and are waiting for the replacements?
>
>
>
> Thanks,
>
>
>
> Jeff
>
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Mark Manzonelli [mailto:[email protected]]
> Sent: Monday, December 30, 2002 5:03 PM
> To: Ferrari, List; Le, Mitchell;
...long - dist. list deleted - VB
> Subject: ES Bushings
>
>
>
> As many people have been asking, I wanted to give an update
> on what is happening with Energy Suspension and the Bushing
> debacle. I have added the Ferrari List to this email as we will be
> needing some "help". Today I made a call to ES and see where they
> stand as far as getting the rest of our bushings exchanged. They
> did answer me (after a few emails and a few phone calls). Here is
> where we stand:
>
>
>
> ES will sell us any bushings we want. At this point, they
> will not exchange any more of the incorrect larger bushings for the
> smaller ones which are required for the 308/328/Mondial. There case
> is we order the bushings by part number. They produced and
> supplied them. Now, they can't move the 104 I have already sent
> back to them and are not willing to exchange any more of the
> incorrect ones for the correct ones. As I have stated before, I
> can't tell you who is responsible for the "error". ES supplied the
> bushings we ordered. Where we received the information, that is
> from ES or we made assumptions that those were the correct parts, I
> don't know. I got involved to help Dan Ramos and the current
> customers get the correct parts. And so far, this has been a bit of
> a nightmare.
>
>
>
> What ES is willing to do, is this. They will supply ES
> Polyurethane Bushings for any Ferrari. The problem is they do not
> know and I do not know what bushings belong on what car. I know a
> little with the bit of work I have done on my car and the
> information I received from Brian Keegan. (Thanks Brian).
>
>
>
> 308/328/Mondial use Energy Suspension Part Number 13.3101.
> These are 30mm diameter by 47mm long. A 308/328 use 16 bushings
> per car and a Mondial uses 24 bushings per car. This information is
> absolute. The OEM Parts manual show two different part numbers but
> the size of the bushings are the same. The difference is in the
> durometer of the stock bushings.
>
>
>
> The information below, I am not 100% sure. I need help from
> all of you Ferrari owners out there and any other dealer, parts
> supplier or knowledgeable person may know.
>
>
>
> 512TR Years 1992-1994
>
> Rear Upper Part Number 154536 (8) required
> per car
>
> Rear Lower Inner Part Number 154539 (4) required per
> car
>
> Rear Lower Outer Part Number 154538 (4) required per
> car
>
>
>
> Front Upper Inner Part Number 154537 (4) required per car
>
> Rear Lower Inner Part Number 154537 (4) required per car
>
>
>
> Testarossa 1986-1991 (???)
>
> Rear Upper Part Number 154536 (8) per car
>
> Rear Lower Outer Part Number 154538 (4) per car
>
> Rear Lower Inner Part Number 134883 (4) per car This may
> be an old part number!!
>
>
>
> Front (all) Part Number 154537 (8) per car
>
>
>
> I also have been told the dimensions of the following
> bushings are:
>
>
>
> 154536 30 mm x 47 mm (verified) same number used on
> 308,328,Mondial
>
> 154537 30 mm x 47 mm (verified) same number used on
> 328,308,Mondial
>
> 154538 34 mm x 49 mm
>
> 154539 34 mm x 56 mm (verified)
>
>
>
> We need to verify information on the TRs (512 and
> Testarossa). We need to get information on any other cars of
> persons who want ES polyurethane bushings for their cars. That is,
> 348, 365 series, 400 series, Mondial T, 355 etc...
>
>
>
> ES is willing to help in manufacturing the bushings for
> Ferrari cars. They just need us to help them in gathering the
> information.
>
>
>
> What we need is the following:
>
>
>
> OEM Part numbers of bushings for the car(s) in question.
>
> Old bushings from a car (identified by position and/or part
> number) which can be sent to ES to help them in designing the
> bushings required.
>
>
>
> I would like to know who may be interested in a set of
> bushings for their car and tell me what type of car you have. I
> then can get a rough idea of what we can bring to the table to ES
> in terms of buying power.
>
>
>
> I can tell you, you will not be disappointed with the ES
> bushings. they are of very good quality and are suppose to last
> forever. On top of that, if you have an older car with the
> original bushings, you will find the original bushings have
> "sagged" over the years. The inner sleeve will no longer be
> centered in the bushing. My 1986 328 bushing's inner sleeve was
> not even close to center. Let me tell you, it really made a
> difference. On top of that, the pricing of the ES bushings are
> much better than stock pricing plus you get polyurethane....What a
> Ferrari (or any other sports car) deserves.
>
>
>
> My advice, if you are interested in a set of bushings for
> your car, help ES and myself by calling a Ferrari dealer, and
> getting the up to date part numbers for your particular car and
> send them to me. Any dealers and or parts people who are reading
> this, your help would be GREATLY APPRECIATED. Any one who has
> access to old bushings from their car (recently replaced) or who
> are willing to send ES their bushings so a correct set could be
> manufactured, please contact me. We will turn things around as
> quickly as possible.
>
>
>
> I will cut this long email off. Please feel free to call me
> or write me with any questions or comments.
>
>
>
> Mark Manzonelli
>
> 314-434-6934
>
> [email protected]
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