| Author |
Message |
Dave Bendl (Dave_b)
New member
Username: Dave_b
Post Number: 6
Registered: 1-2003
| | Posted on Tuesday, February 04, 2003 - 9:32 pm: | |
Guys,
Just an update on this job. Had to grind the inner shock steel bushings off. The bolts were seized to the bushings. PB Blaster + heat wouldn't do it. After all that, the bolts were scrap. Bill at GT Car Parts said he had some used bolts and to make a long story short, I wouldn't recommend these guys for anything if my life depended on it. Metric Multistandard in the Chicago area has some great alternates, and they are nice people to deal with. The spec's on the bolts are M-12 x 150 mm 10.9 grade. The ones from Metric Multstandard are zinc plated. I now have fresh Koni's and all new control arm bushings. Job is now complete. Thank God!!
Dave |
J. Grande (Jay)
Member
Username: Jay
Post Number: 964
Registered: 10-2001
| | Posted on Wednesday, January 15, 2003 - 2:05 pm: | |
$35 is a good price for that spacer, Ferrari of Ontario wanted $135 Canadian for it. |
Dave Bendl (Dave_b)
New member
Username: Dave_b
Post Number: 5
Registered: 1-2003
| | Posted on Tuesday, January 14, 2003 - 11:24 pm: | |
Guys,
With the combination of PB Blaster & heat, I was able to spin the bolts using a breaker bar tonight. This is good news since this means that the corrosion has broken loose between the bolts, "A" arm, & sway bar bushings. The inner shock bushing is still seized to the bolt, so I will continue to use the Blaster & will apply heat tommorrow night. Looks like I'll be able to save the bolts after all. Advise from you guys, & patience pays off. I ordered stock front "A" arm bushings from T-Rutlands today. A set of (8)for $154
Philip,
I only needed (1) hard chrome bushing for the rear outer "A" arm pivots. These should be gold plated to justify their cost. It was p/n 109905.
T-Rutlands price was $35 a pop (11/2000). Ferrari wanted $50 ea.
Frank,
I called Bill at GT Car Parts. Bill was tied up, but I talked to Dave. Their price for stock front "A" arm bushings was $23 ea. Also asked about bolts, he has some used ones in stock, so I told him I would call back if I need them. I'll also keep him in mind for future parts.
Dave |
Gerrit Visser (Gerritv)
Junior Member
Username: Gerritv
Post Number: 141
Registered: 6-2001
| | Posted on Tuesday, January 14, 2003 - 8:52 pm: | |
Hi Jay
Check the Ferrari Owners site. 109905 is BP28, CD$70. Superformance kit is BP150, seals are under BP1 each. I'm fortunate to only need to replace a few bits on the rear outers, 2 x item 9 (thrust washer) and maybe several of item 8 (Inner bush).
Just make sure you lubricate the bolts when you re-assemble as mentioned elsewhere. Whoever worked on my suspension made it simple for me to dissemble, no really stuck parts. |
J. Grande (Jay)
Member
Username: Jay
Post Number: 949
Registered: 10-2001
| | Posted on Tuesday, January 14, 2003 - 12:46 pm: | |
I've asked superformance and they told me they don't sell the spacer only the kit. But they never told me how much the kit was! If it is L150.00 Then it may be worth it. I didn't see the kit on their website. I'll check again. |
Steve Magnusson (91tr)
Intermediate Member
Username: 91tr
Post Number: 1319
Registered: 1-2001
| | Posted on Tuesday, January 14, 2003 - 12:06 pm: | |
Jay -- Did you check with Superformance.UK? They seem to list (what I think is) a complete 1-side 308 rear outboard kit for L149.50 in their 308 catalogue -- is that any better $-wise? |
Frank Foster (Sparta49)
Member
Username: Sparta49
Post Number: 465
Registered: 3-2001
| | Posted on Tuesday, January 14, 2003 - 10:56 am: | |
Dave, I checked the price eon th ebolt on Dennis McCann's site and he has it listed at $45.00 |
J. Grande (Jay)
Member
Username: Jay
Post Number: 948
Registered: 10-2001
| | Posted on Tuesday, January 14, 2003 - 10:53 am: | |
Phillip are you talking about The outside corners On the spare parts manual Tav 36? I'm in the process of doing a complete suspension overhaul. I can tell you that the spacer (item 11, part #109905) is $135 Canadian each!!! I need all 8 of them! I just sent the ends out (items 12,5) to be replated because they were fine, but all of the sleeves and washers inside were too badly corroded to use again, including the dust shield rings. Anyone have a source for a cheaper price? |
Philip Airey (Pma1010)
Junior Member
Username: Pma1010
Post Number: 89
Registered: 7-2002
| | Posted on Tuesday, January 14, 2003 - 8:48 am: | |
Dave, others
Did you replace the chrome bushings on the rear outer arms? Price? Source?
Philip
|
Frank Foster (Sparta49)
Member
Username: Sparta49
Post Number: 464
Registered: 3-2001
| | Posted on Monday, January 13, 2003 - 9:27 pm: | |
Dave, call Bill at GT CAR Parts I have always found them to be less expensive than Rutlands. 1-623-780-2200 |
Dave Bendl (Dave_b)
New member
Username: Dave_b
Post Number: 4
Registered: 1-2003
| | Posted on Monday, January 13, 2003 - 8:21 pm: | |
After being quoted $70 Ea. by T-Rutlands for lower shock bolts, I picked up some PB Blaster tonight.
I think after a couple of days of application + heat, something has to give. I'll use the $140 towards new front "A" arm bushings.
Thanks for all the suggestions guys!
Dave |
Hans E. Hansen (4re_gt4)
Member
Username: 4re_gt4
Post Number: 744
Registered: 4-2002
| | Posted on Monday, January 13, 2003 - 3:44 pm: | |
BTW, also an excellent penetrant is GM's "Heat Valve Lubricant". Many pros use it. Seems thinner than WD-40, etc. |
Ric Rainbolt (Ricrain)
Member
Username: Ricrain
Post Number: 389
Registered: 2-2002
| | Posted on Monday, January 13, 2003 - 12:41 pm: | |
Jerry, no. |
Jerry W. (Tork1966)
Member
Username: Tork1966
Post Number: 351
Registered: 7-2001
| | Posted on Monday, January 13, 2003 - 12:32 pm: | |
I am currently replacing the bushings on my rears and just got my new ES bushings. Since the old bushings were welded in place, do you need to weld the new ones in as well? |
David Lewis (Davidlewis)
New member
Username: Davidlewis
Post Number: 28
Registered: 2-2002
| | Posted on Monday, January 13, 2003 - 11:28 am: | |
I addition to the good ideas discussed here, I also have had good results with the application of heat. After a days soak with penatrant, I then add more, apply heat with a propane torch and let cool. Repeat as needed. The expansion-contraction of the metals and the oil drives the oil further into the joint. Then when you are ready to break it free apply heat again. It's best to apply heat to only the material surrounding the bolt, as best you can. What you want is to expand this material to enlarge the hole, but not the bolt. I have even placed an ice cube on the bolt head just before applying muscle.
While this theoretically all makes sense - it also actually works! |
Dave Bendl (Dave_b)
New member
Username: Dave_b
Post Number: 3
Registered: 1-2003
| | Posted on Sunday, January 12, 2003 - 9:48 pm: | |
Philip,
I'm not out of the woods yet. Still have frozen bolts. I removed the left shock today using the die grinder & cutoff wheel. With the shock, outer steel, & rubber bushings removed all that is left is the inner steel bushing, which is frozen to the bolt. I cut a diagonal pattern on the top of the inner bushing down to the bolt, and filled it with WD-40 & Liquid Wrench. I'll let it soak for a few days & see what happens. I may have to do what Ric Rainbolt did & cut the bolt off as a last resort.
When I did my rear "A" arm bushings & shocks it was a breeze compared to this. You can bet when this thing goes back together, all hardware will have a good coat of Permatex anti-seize!
Dave |
Steve Magnusson (91tr)
Intermediate Member
Username: 91tr
Post Number: 1307
Registered: 1-2001
| | Posted on Sunday, January 12, 2003 - 9:41 pm: | |
If that's PB Blaster -- I like it too (especially for protecting hubs and the hub/brake rotor fit)
PB Blaster
(although I just get mine at NAPA locally) |
KARL DASTOLI (Luch)
Junior Member
Username: Luch
Post Number: 68
Registered: 2-2001
| | Posted on Sunday, January 12, 2003 - 9:18 pm: | |
The best stuff to use is called Blaster, it makes liquid wrench look like Locktite thread locker. An air impact wrench will do the trick if the rubber bushings aren't too soft otherwise they will absorb the shock from the impact and won't work. Forget about electric impacts as they just don't have the "impact" an air one does. MHO
LUCH |
Philip Airey (Pma1010)
Junior Member
Username: Pma1010
Post Number: 88
Registered: 7-2002
| | Posted on Sunday, January 12, 2003 - 8:50 pm: | |
Dave
Since seeing you last week I pulled off the rears (a-arms, shocks) on mine. I had previously done the fronts with no problem. Well, the lower shock mount was a piece of work on the rear. Combination of small headed bolt (why?) and the hot/cold expansion created a tough couple of bolts to undo (both sides were tough).
Here's what worked for me. Lots of WD-40 or similar penetrant applied over a couple of days. Slacken nut to flush with bolt end. Few gentle taps with a mallet and drift. Try the bolt head with the longest arm rachet and 6-point socket (actually using my torque wrench). Progressive tries increased torque on the bolt head and a metal drift on the nut being struck pretty hard by a decent sized hammer. They eventually came out (and, I am relieved to say the bolts and nuts are fine), but man, what a pain.
By the way, my 19 mm and 17mm 6 point craftsman sockets are split now. One in 3 places, the other in one.
Glad you got it all undone.
Philip |
Ric Rainbolt (Ricrain)
Member
Username: Ricrain
Post Number: 385
Registered: 2-2002
| | Posted on Saturday, January 11, 2003 - 10:58 pm: | |
This happened on my 79, but on the upper bolt. After all sorts of doing, I cut the bolt and shock end off with a reciprocating saw. I thought my neighbor was going to have a cow! :-) The replacement bolt was >$15 from Ferrari. It was basically corroded solid with the bushing core. |
Dave Bendl (Dave_b)
New member
Username: Dave_b
Post Number: 2
Registered: 1-2003
| | Posted on Saturday, January 11, 2003 - 8:59 pm: | |
I tried driving the bolt out using a drift with the nut partially on the bolt. The bolt simply replied "I hear you knocking but you can't come in". I also tried a breaker bar with a 6 point socket & extension bar. No go. This bolt has a thin head so if to much pressure is applied it may snap the head off.
I was able to remove the shock tonight, but not the way I would have prefered. I used a die grinder with a cut-off blade and slit the lower shock eyelet. This of course scrapped the shock, but I have new replacements. I have slit the inner shock bushing to the bolt and will now allow it to soak with liquid wrench. After a week of soaking, I found the inner bushing dry, so the liquid wrench never got to it. What a job! Thanks for the suggestions guys!
Dave |
Kelly (Tifosi1)
Member
Username: Tifosi1
Post Number: 447
Registered: 2-2002
| | Posted on Saturday, January 11, 2003 - 7:17 pm: | |
Frank he already has the uppers removed. So, there is no pressure on the bolt.
put an impact wrench on the bolt and get it started turning.
If you can get it to turn put the nut back on it and hammer it out aways.
then take the nut off and use a center punch.
be carefull not to touch the threads.
Took us about 45 minutes per side toady to take them off.
Kelly |
Frank Foster (Sparta49)
Member
Username: Sparta49
Post Number: 462
Registered: 3-2001
| | Posted on Saturday, January 11, 2003 - 5:33 pm: | |
Dave , put a floor jack under the A arm and get some of the pressure off the bolt. |
Craig Dewey (Craigfl)
Member
Username: Craigfl
Post Number: 520
Registered: 1-2001
| | Posted on Saturday, January 11, 2003 - 4:53 pm: | |
I'm a big fan of Kroil. It seeps into just about any crack to lubricate. I don't have an impact wrench because I just like to use a breaker bar with a pipe to make it longer. You probably will get a lot more torque this way than with the impact. You will break it or loosen it. Another trick I've tried is to try to tighten it slightly to help the Kroil move into the connection before you loosen.
Good luck!
|
Dave Bendl (Dave_b)
New member
Username: Dave_b
Post Number: 1
Registered: 1-2003
| | Posted on Saturday, January 11, 2003 - 4:41 pm: | |
I'm attempting to remove & replace the front shocks on my 83' 308 GTS QV. I have the upper bolts removed, but having some problems with the lower ones. The nuts are off, but the bolts seem to be frozen, probably internally corroded to either the shock or "A" arm/sway arm bushing. I have soaked the bolt area with Liquid Wrench for a week and am using a Dewalt 1/2" electric impact wrench to no avail.
Has anyone run into this before? The Liquid Wrench probably isn't getting where it needs too. Any advise?
Thanks,
Dave |