| Author | Message | ||
| Rob Lay (Rob328gts)
Board Administrator Username: Rob328gts Post Number: 3428 Registered: 12-2000 |
Ok, I finally got the right $25 part from Snap On and changed the oil yesterday. Pretty easy. The oil plug was really really tight and I didn't have much leverage with the car only up on 1 foot ramps. I didn't have much room to do anything. I finally got it loose. First leason learned was that this Ferrari has a huge drain plug. It came out so fast my oil pan couldn't keep up and some overflowed. The oil filter was on pretty tight too, but came off with one of the oil filter wrenches I had. I used a new copper washer, put the plug back in, replaced the oil filter and then filled her up with 8 quarts. My book said 10 quarts, but after warming up, 8 quarts put the oil right between the lines. Let me know if any other advice for me, I took my time being my first, next time will be much quicker. Thanks for everyones help. | ||
| Rob Lay (Rob328gts)
Board Administrator Username: Rob328gts Post Number: 3344 Registered: 12-2000 |
well, looks like I ordered the wrong part, it would work, but I want a socket, I got the 12mm hex bit. The socket is $20! Oh well, should last forever. | ||
| TomD (Tifosi)
Intermediate Member Username: Tifosi Post Number: 2413 Registered: 9-2001 |
call lowrey oil in calif and he will ship you the baldwin fliters. http://server.ferrarichat.com/~ferrari/ferrarichat.com/discus/messages/112/2489.html | ||
| Randall Booth (Randall)
New member Username: Randall Post Number: 17 Registered: 1-2003 |
Most likely I'll stay with UFI, just because that's what I see so many people use. I was just wondering if there's a site reccommended where I can buy them for less than here (Hawaii). Maybe even buy 5 or so. Thanks for your help. | ||
| Steve Magnusson (91tr)
Intermediate Member Username: 91tr Post Number: 1338 Registered: 1-2001 |
Randall -- Lowest cost source depends what brand oil filter desired and location to some degree. I'd use "best value" (cost+design+quality) vs "lowest cost" -- but for the US the Baldwin is usually both IMO. Do a search on "Baldwin" to get the previous UFI/Baldwin/Fram/Hastings discussions and retail sources. | ||
| Mike Charness (Mcharness)
Junior Member Username: Mcharness Post Number: 178 Registered: 8-2002 |
Randall -- your local auto parts store that has (or can order) Baldwin filters. | ||
| Randall Booth (Randall)
New member Username: Randall Post Number: 15 Registered: 1-2003 |
SO, WHERE IS THE CHEAPEST PLACE TO GET A REPLACEMENT OIL FILTER? | ||
| Todd Gieger (Todd328gts)
Member Username: Todd328gts Post Number: 332 Registered: 6-2002 |
Tom, you can use the lift anytime! Hey there Russ. I actually bought some spares... but when I bought them I must have bought the washer and 12mm bolt together. There is one bolt with two copper washers in one clear package...the only number you can read on the package(b/c of the staples) is part # 138793...don't know if this the dealer's # or not. I bought from Algar of Philadelphia. | ||
| Russ Fairbanks (Russf)
Junior Member Username: Russf Post Number: 88 Registered: 3-2002 |
Todd. There appears to be some confusion about the size of the washer. Is it indeed 27-22-1.5? I bought a couple of those but from eyeballing the drain plug they look quite large. | ||
| TomD (Tifosi)
Intermediate Member Username: Tifosi Post Number: 2382 Registered: 9-2001 |
you had to rub it in about the lift  | ||
| Todd Gieger (Todd328gts)
Member Username: Todd328gts Post Number: 331 Registered: 6-2002 |
Rob, When I did my 1st oil change last summer, I stocked up on everything I needed 1st. The 12mm from snap-on, the Agip oil and filter, and washer from Algar in Philly, the filter wrench from auto parts store. Then I changed my oil exactly how TomD described below...except I have the lift in my garage now with the mobile oil drain...sweet. | ||
| TomD (Tifosi)
Intermediate Member Username: Tifosi Post Number: 2379 Registered: 9-2001 |
9 buck is prob cheap - I think I paid more than that at sears | ||
| '75 308 GT4 (Peter)
Intermediate Member Username: Peter Post Number: 2405 Registered: 12-2000 |
Rob, if you ever make it up to Canada, bring home as souvenirs some metric tools!  | ||
| Rob Lay (Rob328gts)
Board Administrator Username: Rob328gts Post Number: 3291 Registered: 12-2000 |
O'Rielys, local hardware store, and Home Depot didn't have a 12 mm hex. Sears was too far away, I'm ordering a Snap On one for an arm and leg. They had a $9 and $20 one, I couldn't tell the difference, so got the "cheap" one. | ||
| Rob Lay (Rob328gts)
Board Administrator Username: Rob328gts Post Number: 3267 Registered: 12-2000 |
thanks Tom. BTW, Ferraris are beautiful underneath too! Everything so flat and fit together perfectly. These things are complete works of art. | ||
| TomD (Tifosi)
Intermediate Member Username: Tifosi Post Number: 2359 Registered: 9-2001 |
yep 12 mm and many stores only carry 10 - try sears hardware center | ||
| '75 308 GT4 (Peter)
Intermediate Member Username: Peter Post Number: 2400 Registered: 12-2000 |
Dave, the 308 copper washers are the size Ron R. posted (I measured some old ones I have, not the new ones you sent me - haven't arrived yet). I believe the 328 washers are smaller. | ||
| Rob Lay (Rob328gts)
Board Administrator Username: Rob328gts Post Number: 3259 Registered: 12-2000 |
Ok, first attempt wasn't successful. I didn't realize the drain plug was a hex? I backed on the ramps with no problems, there was plenty of room. I got under there and realized it was hex and not a square 3/8 or 1/2. All I had was a 10mm which appeared to be the correct size for the trans, but is the engine plug a 12mm or something else? Guess I'll be trying again next weekend. Oil fitler seemed like it was on very tight too. I have a few different filter wrenches, but it wasn't budging. | ||
| Mike Dawson (Miked)
Junior Member Username: Miked Post Number: 68 Registered: 2-2001 |
Another source for copper washers is a hydraulic hose supplier. The washers are often used on hose end fittings that have straight threads (as opposed to tapered pipe threads). Just about every town has at least one business that deals with hydraulic hoses such as construction, agriculturial or industrial applications. | ||
| david handa (Davehanda)
Member Username: Davehanda Post Number: 441 Registered: 5-2001 |
I was given a similar spec from Sodacom for the 328. But when I changed my oil recently, my old 308 washers would not fit. I have since donated them to Peter Rychel, so I don't know what size they were, and stupidly did not measure the one on my 328 before reinstalling with some pipethread tape...The 308 one was too big for the 328 though...or was it vice versa? | ||
| Ron R (Ronr)
Junior Member Username: Ronr Post Number: 88 Registered: 10-2002 |
Here's a quote from that thread on washer size, "if you�ve got a 308/328 and do you own engine/trans fluid work you might consider getting a handful of the 22 x 27 x 1.5 size from Global (they are best referred to as �solid copper sealing washers� to distinguish them from other non-solid copper types)." Rob, I was able to back my 308 up on ramps with no problem. Just make sure somebody you trust is back there to tell you when to stop! | ||
| TomD (Tifosi)
Intermediate Member Username: Tifosi Post Number: 2333 Registered: 9-2001 |
this thread shows the size and source http://www.ferrarichat.com/discus/messages/112/665.html | ||
| Hans E. Hansen (4re_gt4)
Member Username: 4re_gt4 Post Number: 783 Registered: 4-2002 |
I have to disagree a little with Ric. The washers are damn near impossible to find locally. None of the 5 parts stores in my little town had them, and in Eugene, OR (pop over 100,000), only a place that specialized in Jags had them - and then only by accident. He said they were included in an assortment he bought, and that he would have never ordered them otherwise. | ||
| Russ Fairbanks (Russf)
Junior Member Username: Russf Post Number: 86 Registered: 3-2002 |
Ric. Can you tell me the size of the washer for a 328 and any other information so that I can have it in hand before I change the oil. I am nowhere near a good import store. My fear is doing the oil change and then not getting the correct washer and finding the the car leaks oil around the plug. Then I have to take all of the oil out to correct the situation. | ||
| Carmine Nicoletta (Ncarmine)
New member Username: Ncarmine Post Number: 50 Registered: 6-2002 |
I raise the car with a jack and then rest on stands. The front spolier clearance is low and expensive enough that I don't bother with ramps. | ||
| JPM (John_308qv)
Junior Member Username: John_308qv Post Number: 86 Registered: 4-2001 |
Rob, I use regular low profile ramps to change the oil on my 308, no rubbing of the front spoiler. It has the standard, not the euro spoiler. I just use the ramps and the back of the 308 is elevated but the oil is changed so damn often that a little old oil does not bother me. John | ||
| Rob Lay (Rob328gts)
Board Administrator Username: Rob328gts Post Number: 3204 Registered: 12-2000 |
Any risk hitting the front spoiler on the ground if backing up the ramps? | ||
| Ric Rainbolt (Ricrain)
Member Username: Ricrain Post Number: 394 Registered: 2-2002 |
I annealed my copper head gaskets on my Turbo 308 motor by raising them to a cherry red condition and then air cooling. The copper was so soft afterwards, if you picked the head gasket up in the middle, it would start bending fully under it's own weight. That being said, the copper crush washers are something like $0.15 each at just about any auto parts store. Don't bother trying to revive the old ones! | ||
| V.Z. (Ama328)
Junior Member Username: Ama328 Post Number: 77 Registered: 11-2002 |
Go down to hardware/lumber store, get a couple 2x8 or 2x10 or 2x12 planks(or one long plank). Cut it to staggered lengths so that you can drive car(either forwards or backwards) onto the terraced ramp: O................. <- wheel ----.............. <- ramp, shortest board -------.......... <- ramp, longer board ---------........ <- ramp, longest board can do both rear wheels to get car more level to drain fluids, or if you're REALLY picky, can do all 4 wheels to keep car completely level. I also use these boards when jacking up further and using jack stands(NEVER use just a jack to support a car), as driving up onto the boards means I can use my regular jack, which can't get under the car because of clearance problems. | ||
| Paul Hill (348paul)
New member Username: 348paul Post Number: 14 Registered: 12-2002 |
More info than you will ever need on Copper! http://www.copper.org/ Some interesting stuff !! | ||
| Steve Magnusson (91tr)
Intermediate Member Username: 91tr Post Number: 1320 Registered: 1-2001 |
Hans -- I put some effort looking into Copper annealing since I was repeating some advice to air cool and Rob S. was recommending a water quench. Turns out we were both right (or wrong ) -- the Cu cooling rate has no effect on the post-annealed ductility so it doesn't seem to matter (i.e., neither way needs to be avoided or is "not the right way") -- comments anyone? rebuttal? | ||
| Hans E. Hansen (4re_gt4)
Member Username: 4re_gt4 Post Number: 762 Registered: 4-2002 |
Rob: I'm glad someone finally exploded the copper washer myth. Heating and *slow* cooling is NOT the right way to do it. Copper is not like steel. Ask any professional model builder. They frequently have to soften copper or brass because it 'work hardens' and they need to re-soften it to continue to work with it. | ||
| James P. Smith (Tigermilk)
Junior Member Username: Tigermilk Post Number: 104 Registered: 7-2001 |
I've got ramps. The benefit is that my driveway is sloped, so when I back up on the ramps I'm actually pretty level with the flat ground. Works great for me. | ||
| Rob Schermerhorn (Rexrcr)
Junior Member Username: Rexrcr Post Number: 108 Registered: 11-2002 |
Copper's more interesting properties is that when heated and quickly quenched in oil or water, it softens and becomes more pliable. Steel is the opposite, heat, quench and it hardens and becomes more brittle. The washers are so cheap, why bother, new one every time. Try Wurth. They sell to all repair facilities doing foreign cars. Rob, I've never backed up onto ramps, when I don't have a lift, it's easiest and safer IMO to do the floor jack, jack stand routine. You can do just the rear if you like, just watch the front spoiler as you jack. | ||
| Kurt Kjelgaard (Kurtk328)
Junior Member Username: Kurtk328 Post Number: 169 Registered: 3-2001 |
I believe the copper washers (22 mm?) are more or less a standard Fiat/Lancia issue. | ||
| Steve Magnusson (91tr)
Intermediate Member Username: 91tr Post Number: 1318 Registered: 1-2001 |
Doesn't hurt to put a finger-full of fresh oil on the internal threads of the new oil filter either IMO... Russ -- see: http://server.ferrarichat.com/~ferrari/ferrarichat.com/discus/messages/112/665.html for my $.02 on the Cu washers. | ||
| TomD (Tifosi)
Intermediate Member Username: Tifosi Post Number: 2324 Registered: 9-2001 |
if you have a new copper washer you might as well use it - its a cheap part Otherwise you must heat it until beat red ( I would only reuse once) and let cool slowly. I never jack up the mondial , just slide under and pull the plug - its tight and you need to have a low profile pan but it works great, Rob I don't think people put grease on the end of the filter - you just take some oil and rub it into the rubber washer that comes with the filter. don't over tighten, inspect seal after start up and shut down the first time. | ||
| Russ Fairbanks (Russf)
Junior Member Username: Russf Post Number: 85 Registered: 3-2002 |
I am also about to do an oild change onmy 328 for the first time. How important is it to change the copper washer on the drain plug. Alternatively I am told to heat it with a torch before putting it back on. appreciate anyone's thoughts on this. | ||
| Paul (Pcelenta)
Member Username: Pcelenta Post Number: 264 Registered: 7-2002 |
I usually punch a small whole in the filter with a drift to aide in getting the oil out of the filter.. a ferrari tech showed/advised me how to do it.. | ||
| Rob Lay (Rob328gts)
Board Administrator Username: Rob328gts Post Number: 3195 Registered: 12-2000 |
I know how to do it on a Ferrari since I've watched it done before (hint: don't drain trans and double engine oil!). Some put a grease or something around the new oil filter, what is that? Is it necessary? I don't mind jacking the car up and placing on stands, but has anyone tried to back a 308/328 up on the little ramps? Does it work ok? Much quicker for my other cars. Any other tips and tricks? |