| Author | Message | ||
| DaveE (Banzaiboxr)
New member Username: Banzaiboxr Post Number: 32 Registered: 8-2002 |
Matt, I wish you luck on your car.I just realized I meant to say Bill not Gary at Enzo Motors.I must be losin it because i have not driven my car in a while. Dave | ||
| TomD (Tifosi)
Intermediate Member Username: Tifosi Post Number: 2395 Registered: 9-2001 |
don't bbs sometimes have issues with the sodium valves - ie they corrode?? | ||
| Matt Lemus (Mlemus)
Intermediate Member Username: Mlemus Post Number: 1491 Registered: 8-2002 |
I'll call him tomorrow. I need to clarify. I did not know the timing and injectors were bad. I just reread my post. I forgot the word aparently | ||
| Henryk (Henryk)
Member Username: Henryk Post Number: 405 Registered: 8-2001 |
wouldn't a simple compression test have diagnosed bad valves? | ||
| JRV (Jrvall)
Member Username: Jrvall Post Number: 647 Registered: 11-2002 |
O Ok. No comment. sorry to hear the bad news. Monaco Motors, ...ask for Wade. I've known him 25+ yrs., we grew up in this Biz together 818-704-1836 | ||
| peter brinzey (Ferraripete)
New member Username: Ferraripete Post Number: 44 Registered: 11-2002 |
how can bad valves be checked? do the heads need to be removed? my engine is out now and i would love to know what things could be done other than belts? | ||
| Matt Lemus (Mlemus)
Intermediate Member Username: Mlemus Post Number: 1490 Registered: 8-2002 |
It was not me. It was Enzo Motors in Anaheim. THe car sat for about 14 years and then went through a rebuild. I sat for 3 years and then I got the car. I had the cosmetics restored and left the engine as I was told it was o.k. When I got it back in Dec, I drove it for about 3000 miles on bad injectors and with the timing off. All the springs on the valves are weak as well. Thoughts? | ||
| JRV (Jrvall)
Member Username: Jrvall Post Number: 646 Registered: 11-2002 |
>>Burned valves..... << not impossible, but hard to belive. tight valves on these motors is very rare. what brought you to this new conclusion? | ||
| Matt Lemus (Mlemus)
Intermediate Member Username: Mlemus Post Number: 1488 Registered: 8-2002 |
JRV, Burned valves.....  | ||
| James Selevan (Jselevan)
Member Username: Jselevan Post Number: 307 Registered: 6-2002 |
Matt- need a bit more information. Does the car start quickly when cold? Does it start quickly when hot? Does it not start 20 or 30 minutes after shutting it down? These were my symptoms, and had to do with pressure regulators and fuel pumps. Jim S. | ||
| Matt Lemus (Mlemus)
Intermediate Member Username: Mlemus Post Number: 1472 Registered: 8-2002 |
Frank and JRV, I am almost done. I am doing a lot of cool downs between tests. I am beginning to think it is fuel pressure or a couple of bad valves. | ||
| Frank Parker (Parkerfe)
Intermediate Member Username: Parkerfe Post Number: 1670 Registered: 9-2001 |
Matt, as I too have a 1982 BB512i I am interested in what you find out is causing your problem. Keep us posted. | ||
| Matt Lemus (Mlemus)
Intermediate Member Username: Mlemus Post Number: 1467 Registered: 8-2002 |
Dave, "How much did you pay for this car again ?" I am beginning to think I paid WAY TOO much for it. "Just kidding .It is your duty to get this Italian Bastard running FAST so we can go on some runs" Like the Ortega Run? I'm trying "Maybe you need to talk to the best - Gary @ Enzo Motors. LMK for the #" The car needs to get into a shop soon. I need to get the car finished or sell it for my sanity. Can you e-mail me his number? | ||
| DaveE (Banzaiboxr)
New member Username: Banzaiboxr Post Number: 31 Registered: 8-2002 |
How much did you pay for this car again ? Just kidding  .It is your duty to get this Italian Bastard running FAST so we can go on some runs Mabey you need to talk to the best - Gary @ Enzo Motors. LMK for the # Dave | ||
| Matt Lemus (Mlemus)
Intermediate Member Username: Mlemus Post Number: 1462 Registered: 8-2002 |
JRV, I did not have a chance to finish today. I will finish tomorrow. | ||
| KCCK (Kenneth)
Member Username: Kenneth Post Number: 283 Registered: 10-2002 |
Matt. This JRV is helpful,isn't he? | ||
| Matt Lemus (Mlemus)
Intermediate Member Username: Mlemus Post Number: 1443 Registered: 8-2002 |
Yuck.... It's going to be a long weekend... I get the readings following your procedure and let you know. Thanks again | ||
| Steve Magnusson (91tr)
Intermediate Member Username: 91tr Post Number: 1328 Registered: 1-2001 |
Matt -- If you say it runs well enough warm, yet needs more than a little cranking to warm restart how have you ruled out that the fuel supply pressures aren't behaving abnormally? | ||
| JRV (Jrvall)
Member Username: Jrvall Post Number: 622 Registered: 11-2002 |
Procedure: 1) Install Hg (Vacum) Gauges, one per side T'ed in to one of several vacum lines to Intake Manifold. 2) Start Engine 3)Sample exhaust gas (before cats, if any) while noticing Hg readings (normal = 15-18in Hg) 4)Balance Vacum slightly side to side, w/air bypass screws (note: balance will fluxuate until all 12 cylnders run correctly) 5) Sample both banks exhaust readings again, before cats, adjust FD screw (idle mixture)until CO is approx. 1.5% on both sides. 6) Recheck & adjust Hg until Both Banks are even (likely about 16 in. Hg) 7) Recheck & Adjust mixture as Necc. to 1.2%-1.5% CO... if no miss or anomolie exists at this point the HC's should be in the 100-200ppm range (before the cat) with anything over 300 indicative of poor condition of some component, ie: plug, injector, plug wire, cap, FD port, fuel pressure, intake air leak, dirty/sticking/burned valve. . NOTE: it is not possible to simply set one side then the other. Both sides have to be slowly, methodicaly tweeked to spec, with each insuing round of adjustments calculated to bring both sides to matching Hg/CO/HC readings. | ||
| Matt Lemus (Mlemus)
Intermediate Member Username: Mlemus Post Number: 1433 Registered: 8-2002 |
JRV, "Woulda been nice to have seen 4%-4.75% CO cold." Is it bad that they are in the 3's? "Gotta have the Hg readings to determine balance between banks...also, seems strange both banks have same numbers (highly unlikely in fact), so it sounds like the exhaust from the seperate banks are mixing...which would negate ability to set individual FD's & Air Bypass Screws correctlty." Is this bad? I have never touched the exhaust on the car. So i would assume that the PO did this. The car was PO'd to death when I got it. Is getting this back to stock a big deal or is it something I could do? Or does this require a Mechanic? "Also I hope these numbers are pre-cat...!!" Post cat at the tail pipe.....I can rodo when the car cools down. | ||
| JRV (Jrvall)
Member Username: Jrvall Post Number: 621 Registered: 11-2002 |
Woulda been nice to have seen 4%-4.75% CO cold. Gotta have the Hg readings to determine balance between banks...also, seems strange both banks have same numbers (highly unlikely in fact), so it sounds like the exhaust from the seperate banks are mixing...which would negate ability to set individual FD's & Air Bypass Screws correctlty. Also I hope these numbers are pre-cat...!! | ||
| Matt Lemus (Mlemus)
Intermediate Member Username: Mlemus Post Number: 1430 Registered: 8-2002 |
Jeff, I use chevron 91. JRV Cold CO/HC's Both Banks CO 3.1 % HC 980ppm Vac gauge is inop Hot HC/CO/Hg Both banks. CO 2.6 % HC 850ppm hot readings Both Banks at idle - Above readings at idle 2500 RPMS. CO% 3.3 HC 1000ppm using Acutech Tach | ||
| jeff ryerson (Atheyg)
Junior Member Username: Atheyg Post Number: 145 Registered: 8-2002 |
Matt Something I noticed right away with my car is they are very particular on the brand of fuel used I had a hard start problems after I put Sinclair premium in my car, I have used Chevron exclusively since and have not had problems, I also run a bottle of Techron thru it every so often | ||
| Matt Lemus (Mlemus)
Intermediate Member Username: Mlemus Post Number: 1426 Registered: 8-2002 |
"No....I started it because I finally got sick of the constant whining & crying about expense & what coulda, shoulda, woulda. Cars don't care about coulda, shoulda, woulda, they just are." I agree totally Back to your problem....Cold CO/HC's Both Banks-Vacum Readings Both Banks- Hot HC/CO/Hg Readings both banks. PLUS--hot readings Both Banks at idle & 2500 RPMS. I will take the readings later this morning. After last night. I think I should let the neighbors sleep in. Thanks | ||
| JRV (Jrvall)
Member Username: Jrvall Post Number: 615 Registered: 11-2002 |
>>That's funny I see the man from Ark is in on you now. << No....I started it because I finally got sick of the constant whining & crying about expense & what coulda, shoulda, woulda. Cars don't care about coulda, shoulda, woulda, they just are. The only way to deal with cars is to accept "reality" at face value and proceed from there. Just like your running problem, Whatever is, is, what we want or wish is irrelivant, accept it, get over it, deal with it, move on to the next situation. Back to your problem....Cold CO/HC's Both Banks-Vacum Readings Both Banks- Hot HC/CO/Hg Readings both banks. PLUS--hot readings Both Banks at idle & 2500 RPMS. | ||
| Matt Lemus (Mlemus)
Intermediate Member Username: Mlemus Post Number: 1424 Registered: 8-2002 |
>>>likely the injectors never were the problem.<<< "Which brings up a good point, did the Dirty Injector Diagnostee check eackh injector and gas at each port?" I am not sure what they did. I can ask on Monday. "if dirty injectors are suspected, then a High Pressure High Concentration Cleaning of both banks (one bank at a time) is in order first or removal of all 12 for cleaning and testing individually." That's what I thought but being new to the Boxer, I was not sure what to do. I listened to them and wrote checks. "It's hard to solve a problem and easy to throw money away if "procedures" are not followed to the letter." I agree. It does seem like it is running better once it starts. But the starting problem has gotten worse. For $125 per hour I would expect better service. "you're startin to dream like arlie now. " That's funny I see the man from Ark is in on you now. If it was not the injectors, could it be a Fuel system pressure problem? | ||
| JRV (Jrvall)
Member Username: Jrvall Post Number: 610 Registered: 11-2002 |
>>>likely the injectors never were the problem. << Which brings up a good point, did the Dirty Injector Diagnostee check eackh injector and gas at each port? if dirty injectors are suspected, then a High Pressure High Concentration Cleaning of both banks (one bank at a time) is in order first or removal of all 12 for cleaning and testing individually. It's hard to solve a problem and easy to throw money away if "procedures" are not followed to the letter. | ||
| JRV (Jrvall)
Member Username: Jrvall Post Number: 609 Registered: 11-2002 |
>>The Ferrari dealer did the service. I would have hoped they would have caught this... << you're startin to dream like arlie now. anyway, the 2.5% is not related to the problem the engine will run fine at 2.5%...however at 2.5% CO the HC should be 250ppm...likely the injectors never were the problem. | ||
| Matt Lemus (Mlemus)
Intermediate Member Username: Mlemus Post Number: 1422 Registered: 8-2002 |
"2.5% CO hot is high but that's not the problem...the 850ppmHC's is way to high." EEEEK!!! "Factory specs for idle hot 1.2% +- .3, 150-200ppm HC's..." I am way too high "could be an injector, but I'd put a fresh set of plugs in first...to form a baseline." I'll put on a fresh set tomorrow. These are only 2000k miles old though.. "are the Aux, Warm Up Regulators hooked together like the orig. factory set-up or seperate?" Together "and what are the Vacum Readings of both sides at idle?" I'll take these in the morning. BTW, I used your model paint brush tool. Worked great. The Ferrari dealer did the service. I would have hoped they would have caught this... | ||
| JRV (Jrvall)
Member Username: Jrvall Post Number: 608 Registered: 11-2002 |
2.5% CO hot is high but that's not the problem...the 850ppmHC's is way to high. Factory specs for idle hot 1.2% +- .3, 150-200ppm HC's... could be an injector, but I'd put a fresh set of plugs in first...to form a baseline. are the Aux, Warm Up Regulators hooked together like the orig. factory set-up or seperate? and what are the Vacum Readings of both sides at idle? | ||
| Matt Lemus (Mlemus)
Intermediate Member Username: Mlemus Post Number: 1421 Registered: 8-2002 |
Correction, Left side, driver. | ||
| Matt Lemus (Mlemus)
Intermediate Member Username: Mlemus Post Number: 1420 Registered: 8-2002 |
Sorry, HOT and Both. I forgot you wanted the cold as well. I will need to take that in the morning now | ||
| JRV (Jrvall)
Member Username: Jrvall Post Number: 607 Registered: 11-2002 |
Cold or Hot ? Outa 1 side or both? | ||
| Matt Lemus (Mlemus)
Intermediate Member Username: Mlemus Post Number: 1419 Registered: 8-2002 |
I think my HC's are too high....Bad injectors still? I remember, correct me if i'm wrong, but I think you said that a boxer should be below 500ppm or even 300ppm and the co should be below 2%. I can't remember the thread. | ||
| JRV (Jrvall)
Member Username: Jrvall Post Number: 606 Registered: 11-2002 |
Cold or Hot ? Outa 1 side or both? | ||
| Matt Lemus (Mlemus)
Intermediate Member Username: Mlemus Post Number: 1418 Registered: 8-2002 |
Well I pissed of the neighborhood but this is what I got. HC 850ppm CO 2.5% | ||
| JRV (Jrvall)
Member Username: Jrvall Post Number: 604 Registered: 11-2002 |
Gotta start somewhere..once you know those numbers it will lead to where to start looking for a problem if any exist. Gotta go to first base if you want to try for home plate. | ||
| Matt Lemus (Mlemus)
Intermediate Member Username: Mlemus Post Number: 1417 Registered: 8-2002 |
JRV, I'll check in the morning. Is there anything other readings I should take? Thanks, Matt | ||
| JRV (Jrvall)
Member Username: Jrvall Post Number: 602 Registered: 11-2002 |
What's the CO & HC readings at idle cold & warm? | ||
| Matt Lemus (Mlemus)
Intermediate Member Username: Mlemus Post Number: 1413 Registered: 8-2002 |
I got the boxer back after two fuel injectors went bad. Now it has a hard time starting. Battery is fine. Starter is new. Fuel pumps and filter are new. Fuses and relay and block are new. It cranks for 5 to 15 seconds now. It use to fire right up. Any suggestions? |