| Author | Message | ||
| magoo (Magoo)
Intermediate Member Username: Magoo Post Number: 2253 Registered: 2-2001 |
I have tested various filters by cutting them apart when I changed the oil, in all fairness not Baldwin, but the only one that held oil over a extended period of time was the Fram. There are those who don't like Fram because of the plastic standpipe and the internal filter consistency, But then how long are you going to leave it on your car. Also no real strength is needed in the stand pipe so why not plastic? I am seriously thinking about going back to Fram. | ||
| peter james moran (Pjm)
New member Username: Pjm Post Number: 4 Registered: 3-2002 |
I have raced motorcycles (including AMA Superbikes) for twelve years and much of the technology is very similar to what I'm seeing in my 308 QV. I would advise you not to be too concerned about the oil pressure not coming up right away (less then 5 sec's). Unless the motor has been idle for more a few months then I would disconnect the coil wires and allow let the engine build up pressure before firing it up. I plan to run Castrol 5w-50w a full synthetic as an experiment before I rebuild my 308 motor next year and then I will use it from then on. I'm in agreement with the idea that it would/could weep excessively if I start using it now, so I'll just use Castrol 20w-50 (old dinosaurs). One thing I would advise all owners is to carefully cut open your used oil filter and inspect the paper element. It is excellent window in the condition of the motor. Don't freak when you start finding small traces of copper (bearing material) etc. Just consider it a warning of possible service needs. But, if it's running fine and you start to find chunks of stuff - take note! | ||
| Richard Stephens (Dino2400)
Junior Member Username: Dino2400 Post Number: 53 Registered: 10-2001 |
Wow. That is an awful long distance from the oil pump to the filter - so I imagine it would take quite a few seconds to get it full and then begin to build up pressure. But I'm with Edward: the cams will still have oil on/under them and so will everything else as long as it hasn't been ages since you've driven the car. Right? | ||
| Edward Gault (Irfgt)
Member Username: Irfgt Post Number: 955 Registered: 2-2001 |
Just out of curiosity I removed the Baldwin oil filter from my car today. I have not driven it in a week. There was not a drop of oil inside the filter. Every bit of it has drained out therefore the valve is not working to seal it off. I still do not concern myself with the delay in pressure since there are small reservoirs under the cam bearings that will lube the thing until fresh oil arrives. They must have anticipated this situation. I once had a customer that drove her Oldsmobile about 20 miles with NO oil pressure since the oil pump shaft snapped on startup. She drove her kids to school and did some errands before arriving at my shop. The thing sounded like a cement mixer full of rocks but after replacing the shaft she quietened right down and the car still runs today. That was 15 years ago. | ||
| '75 308 GT4 (Peter)
Intermediate Member Username: Peter Post Number: 1748 Registered: 12-2000 |
Jorma, you have the tools, there's nothing stopping you from installing the pressure sender unit on the banjo bolt (or weld a bung on the side of the block on that passageway to the hose)... ...But I don't see why. Other than a few seconds delay, there's nothing wrong with the stock location. If there's concern about turning the engine over dry on start-up and waiting for the oil to reach the engine, install an Accusump. | ||
| Jorma Johansson (Jjfinland)
Junior Member Username: Jjfinland Post Number: 161 Registered: 3-2001 |
Ok, Steve, glad you asked  If you read in the owners manual about chekind the oil level, it says that you have to do it fast after stopping the engine, because oil starts running back from the oil cooler and filter. That is a lot of oil, no wonder it takes 5 sec. to fill the system.In the engine oil lube diagram you can see, there is a perfect place for a check valve, at once when the oil comes out from the block, to a hose leading to oil cooler.  | ||
| Steve Magnusson (91tr)
Member Username: 91tr Post Number: 641 Registered: 1-2001 |
Jorma -- you can fill both 308 gearbox areas via plug D only, but the old gear oil needs to be drained separately from the two areas (i.e. remove plugs B and C to drain, replace plugs B and C, remove plug A and fill thru the plug D hole until gear oil starts to run out of the plug A hole, replace plugs A and D.). Why did you post the engine oil lube diagram? -- to show the oil filter and output pressure sensor are actually upstream of everything else? | ||
| BretM (Bretm)
Intermediate Member Username: Bretm Post Number: 2145 Registered: 2-2001 |
They are nice pics though...Nicer than they are in the manuals, or at least mine. These are blown up a lot and easier to see, albeit the same ones. Yeah the gearbox and transfer case do share the same oil, as well as the diff. You can't make out where they go from one to the other in any of the diagrams, but there is a small (maybe 1/2" hole inbetween the gearbox and the transfer case) where the oil makes its way. I would imagine the diff is a similar situation. | ||
| TomD (Tifosi)
Member Username: Tifosi Post Number: 474 Registered: 9-2001 |
your going to blow up Robs server posting the owners manual | ||
| Jorma Johansson (Jjfinland)
Junior Member Username: Jjfinland Post Number: 160 Registered: 3-2001 |
Isn`t the gearbox oil system together with clutch housing?    You do this?? | ||
| Jorma Johansson (Jjfinland)
Junior Member Username: Jjfinland Post Number: 159 Registered: 3-2001 |
 | ||
| BretM (Bretm)
Intermediate Member Username: Bretm Post Number: 2134 Registered: 2-2001 |
I used UFI and then switched to Fram. I have never experienced any delay in the pressure coming up, regardless of how long I leave it. Good luck I guess, I hope it stays that way. | ||
| Kelly J. Vince (Tifosi1)
Junior Member Username: Tifosi1 Post Number: 193 Registered: 2-2002 |
My car has always done this, 4 to 5 sec delay if cold. If it is warm it does not happen. I'm not worried. I use the baldwin. I think it is great. I'm of this opinion, if you look at where the filter is in the line of oil flow, it is last thing to get oil and then the oil goes back to the sump. So, the oil oresseure sensor is under the filter, Mine is bad getting a new one. So, to me it takes 4 to 5 sec for the ol pump to prime and send the oil through the engine to the filter. I don't see a problem My 2 cents. kelly | ||
| JBuffa (Joseph)
New member Username: Joseph Post Number: 7 Registered: 2-2002 |
Jorma, I had the same problem with my 308. I changed from FRAM to UFI, and the delay was gone. | ||
| Jorma Johansson (Jjfinland)
Junior Member Username: Jjfinland Post Number: 158 Registered: 3-2001 |
I have to check these things out, anyhow, I am glad I use Penzoil 20 - 50 oil in my car, because even there is no pressure for a few seconds, I know that the film is there. I have learned the hard way not to use light oils in this kind of engines. Before when I was using Mobil 1 in my race engine, I had to change bearings after every race. Racing in Sunday and opening the oil pan in Monday, the crank and bearings were totally dry. Then I started using Penzoil, even opening the oil pan after winter, the crank was oily, no bearing difficultyes enymore. I rather loose a few hp than the engine. Guys before you start arguing this, it is only MY experience, no the only thruth | ||
| Steve Magnusson (91tr)
Member Username: 91tr Post Number: 636 Registered: 1-2001 |
Jorma -- the reverse-flow "check valve" on the engine oiling system is the Anti-Drainback-Valve built inside the oil filter itself (which is supposed to keep the input/pump side of things full of oil). Using an oil filter with an internal standpipe (for an inverted application) is a good idea too IMO (which traps a little more oil in the output path), but the standpipe is effective only IF the ADV is working well too:  When I was using the Fram PH2804-1 filter (which has a standpipe) on my ex-308 I'd say about 1/2 the time it was "empty" when changing which indicated the ADV was not closing properly (so even though it had a standpipe it was ineffective). For a better internal quality oil filter with a standpipe try the Baldwin B253. | ||
| Peter S�derlund /328 GTB -88 (Corsa)
Junior Member Username: Corsa Post Number: 143 Registered: 4-2001 |
If it's not the filter, check if you still have the end plug on the camshafts (hollow cams) still in place. I discovered that suddenly it took a few second longer for the oil pressure light to come off. The missing plug caused that initial oil pressure drop. FYI no damage. Ciao Peter | ||
| Richelson (Richelson)
Member Username: Richelson Post Number: 668 Registered: 12-2001 |
Mine does the exact same thing. I think it is normal as well. I am not sure if any filter will hold oil over night. | ||
| Jorma Johansson (Jjfinland)
Junior Member Username: Jjfinland Post Number: 157 Registered: 3-2001 |
Thanks Edward, nice to hear. The time feels sooo long. The filter was " M " MH301 . | ||
| Edward Gault (Irfgt)
Member Username: Irfgt Post Number: 950 Registered: 2-2001 |
My car does the same thing and I consider it normal. I have yet to find a filter that will contain the oil without draining out over time. | ||
| Jorma Johansson (Jjfinland)
Junior Member Username: Jjfinland Post Number: 156 Registered: 3-2001 |
I am not sure, I belive it is FRAM, I have to take a look. The gauge works nice, I can even hear the rev going down when pressure goes up. | ||
| magoo (Magoo)
Intermediate Member Username: Magoo Post Number: 2232 Registered: 2-2001 |
Then Jorma, the best way to tell is to cut the filter in half. However I think you need a filter with a standpipe in it. What filter are you using? | ||
| BretM (Bretm)
Intermediate Member Username: Bretm Post Number: 2126 Registered: 2-2001 |
It never all comes out, I've been trying to drain a UFI filter to leave on my desk, it is very sharp looking and says Ferrari on it. You absolutely cannot get the last bit out, as soon as you think you have more comes out. Damn Italians. | ||
| magoo (Magoo)
Intermediate Member Username: Magoo Post Number: 2228 Registered: 2-2001 |
Yeah Bret, but if he inverts the filter the oil will drain out. Did you try that Jorma? | ||
| BretM (Bretm)
Intermediate Member Username: Bretm Post Number: 2117 Registered: 2-2001 |
You'll know it if you have a standpipe, it makes it like impossible to drain all the oil out of the filter after you get it off. | ||
| magoo (Magoo)
Intermediate Member Username: Magoo Post Number: 2226 Registered: 2-2001 |
Jorma, sometimes the guage will stick and you think it is not coming up. Tap on the guage lens to see if it is sticking. Second the oil filter should have a stand pipe in it. This prevents the oil from running out of the filter when the engine is shut down. Like the Baldwin filter and the Ufi and the Fram filters. This could also be part of the problem. Go to the archives and type in stand pipe and it will show many discussions about that question. You are probably using a filter with out a stand pipe. | ||
| Jorma Johansson (Jjfinland)
Junior Member Username: Jjfinland Post Number: 155 Registered: 3-2001 |
Is there any check valve at the oil system in 308 engine? When I start the engine after some days, it takes about 3 - 5 sec. before the oil pressure comes. When it comes, it comes fast. when I chanched the oil filter, I was expecting a lot of oil running at the engine, but no, not a drop, the can was empty. Is this normal? |