| Author | Message | ||
| Peter Polasek (Peterp)
Junior Member Username: Peterp Post Number: 53 Registered: 8-2002 |
Jerry, I used to use a pressure washer and don't have anything against it -- if the engine is dirty enough to need one, there is no reason not to use it. But over time I discovered that a mild cleaner was very often all that was needed and I believe that, in detailing, the least aggressive approach is usually best over the long term. So I recommend the mild approach first -- but I can also confirm that I have never experienced any serious problems as a result of pressure washing. | ||
| Jerry W. (Tork1966)
Member Username: Tork1966 Post Number: 493 Registered: 7-2001 |
Peter, why NOT pressure wash? It is faster and easier than doing it by hand. I don't understand why some of you are so scared of pressure washing. I am pretty aggressive when I wash any part of any of my cars and I have NEVER had ANY problem with ANYTHING, EVER. I also sell pressure washers and steam cleaners to MANY detail centers, many of which do high end cars and none of them ever have problems either. Believe me they would howl at me if they ever did. Of course you CAN do the task by hand if you don't want to invest in a machine but don't knock the method until you've tried it. Much more environmentally friendly as well not putting chemicals into the ground. | ||
| DJParks (Djparks)
New member Username: Djparks Post Number: 15 Registered: 2-2003 |
Peter I agree, the only time I use mine is on crusted up, black filthy sludge and yes I have seen another 308 just as I describe. Looks nice now and when he gets all of the oil leaks fixed it will be a breeze to keep it that way. Jerry, Thanks for the tip on the right pressurewasher to buy. Mine is a piece of junk and I knew it when I bought it but I have lucked out and it lasted long enough to pay for itself in quarters not spent at the local wash.The pressure switch is failing and I have to encourage start-up by manual manipulation (read as slamming into floor a couple of times)before we can get to work. Is the Karcher you speak of electric? relatively small? I'm rather short on storage.Would you mind if I contacted you later when mine fails? Thanks in advance, DJ | ||
| Peter Polasek (Peterp)
Junior Member Username: Peterp Post Number: 52 Registered: 8-2002 |
I don't understand the need for steam/pressure cleaning unless an engine is completely filthy. I don't even see the need for harsh degreasers like Gunk -- I've had great results with mild cleaners like Simple Green or Castrol Degreaser (the Castrol works better). Spray it on, let it soak for 15 minutes, rinse it off. I usually follow it with the soap (same as used to wash the car) to make sure all the degreaser is out. I use "303" Aerospace protectant on the hoses and on the black crinkle air filter cover and the whole engine looks new. If you haven't tried the "mild" approach, I recommend at least trying it before you resort to pressure. | ||
| Jerry W. (Tork1966)
Member Username: Tork1966 Post Number: 491 Registered: 7-2001 |
Steve, you will be VERY lucky if that thing lasts for a couple of years. Do yourself a favor and RETURN it!!!! Do not pass go and DO collect your $100.00. Believe me, my company fixes ALL makes and models and we know how they are built, the parts that should be metal are plastic and the parts that should be brass are aluminum (much more succeptable to corrosion). Karcher machines are BY FAR the best on the market. They have all replaceable parts (which cannot be said of Campbell Hausfeld, Generac and DeVilbiss...they can be a nightmare to fix and/or get parts for). When you CAN get parts, they are sometimes so expensive that they are not worth fixing. I don't even keep them for parts, it's straight to the dumpster. Sometimes we blow them up with M-80's for a laugh. Anyway I digress, unfortunately even Karcher makes some inferior models and we will not sell them. We know which are good and which are not because we fix 400-500 machines per year. If you want a decent machine, e-mail me and I will sell you a great Karcher for $150.00 delivered. My normal price is $179.00 plus tax and frt. I just cannot stand to see you waste a Franklin. Ask Bruce Wellington about the one I sold him if you wish. Jerry. | ||
| Steve (Steve)
Member Username: Steve Post Number: 308 Registered: 2-2001 |
I just came back from my local Home Depot where I got a 1600psi 120v pressure washer.They had a special sale for $99 which I could not pass up. Even if it lasts for a few years its a bargin.Also because I'm doing a WP and belts it will be the right time to wash down the engine and boy does it need it. | ||
| DJParks (Djparks)
New member Username: Djparks Post Number: 14 Registered: 2-2003 |
The pressurewasher I use is a little 115V electric that I bought at Lowes for about 130.00 five years ago. It runs off of the hot water tap behind my washing machine and produces about 800 to 1000 PSI depending on which tip I use. (Life time of the washer is supposed to be 400 hours). I bent one of the tips in a sweeping 90 degree to get the forward side of the engine and other areas under the exhaust manifolds/transaxle etc....a crappy and wet couple of hours but well worth it. I hate to admit this but my 308 was one of those cars that never got power washed more than a couple of times in it's life time so when it came time to clean and inspect the lower half I sprayed the entire pan, suspension (with rear inner fenders out) and engine/transaxle assy with Simple Green straight out of the bottle. I used about a quart and a half (I buy it by the gallon for 17.00) and let it soak overnight. After the pressure wash and blow down with air I let it dry for another couple of days before I prepped for repaint. I still wiped down areas to be painted with laquer thinner because of residue but it still was very clean and nice work on. | ||
| Verell Boaen (Verell)
Member Username: Verell Post Number: 569 Registered: 5-2001 |
I agree you don't need the power washers. Once clean, the top of the engine usually just needs a quick wipe-down. However, it's a PITA to try to wash the lower forward side under the exhaust manifold of a 3x8 engine with a hand brush. The rear side & transaxle are also hard to get to. That's where my little air powered engine washer really comes in handy. It fits up into the hard to reach areas & does a nice quick job. BTW, how much do you dilute the Simple Green? I tried about a 5:1 solution & it just didn't want to cut engine oil, much less tranny grease. I generally use a citrus based solvent with varying amounts of dilution depending on the job at hand. | ||
| BLUE308 (Davidlewis)
Junior Member Username: Davidlewis Post Number: 51 Registered: 2-2002 |
Totally agree - I always clean it before I work on it. I clean the engine top/bottom, front/back without a BINFORD 1000. I guess if you are driving a gunk-queen the power equipment is good, but I doubt that is the type of cars we are talking about here. The ArmourAll is just the standard product and it does a good job of brightening the non-metallic stuff. I use "rub-n-buff" on the aluminum. | ||
| DJParks (Djparks)
New member Username: Djparks Post Number: 9 Registered: 2-2003 |
I guess the point of my last post was to say that when a car is cleaned it is easier to determine the condition of the car and all of it's parts and systems. No surprises. Once it is clean I do pretty much what you do. | ||
| DJParks (Djparks)
New member Username: Djparks Post Number: 8 Registered: 2-2003 |
You aren't missing anything. You are only doing what is required to keep your engine clean. I am amazed at the number of people that have never ever power wash the under side of their prized possesions. I don't work on cars that haven't been thoroughly cleaned anymore. It's also the first thing I do when I buy a car. I use Simple Green as a degreaser and NAPA brand aluminum brightner for the rough cast/unpolished parts of the engine. Mothers Mag Polish for the rest. (is it okay to name names here?) Never heard of Armorall brightening aluminum. Is this a new product or are you talking about the standard product? | ||
| BLUE308 (Davidlewis)
New member Username: Davidlewis Post Number: 50 Registered: 2-2002 |
I like my power tools as much as the next guy but I guess I just don't get using these machines on my engine. If we were talking about Aunt Gertie's 1973 Ford Galaxie w/ 300k miles on it and never been cleaned, OK I see. I put about 3,000 miles/year on my 308 and wash the engine about twice a year. It looks reasonable before washing and looks great after. I spray on a degreaser by hand, use a long bristle brush for a few hard to get to places and rinse with a gentle garden hose spray. While wet I mist the engine with ArmourAll to brighten everthing. For street use, it would be hard to imagine getting it any cleaner. And I think there is a real risk of screwing something up with these hairy-chested devices. All this reminds me of Tim Allen getting all wrapped up in his new BINFORD #1000 High-Power-Nuclear-Steam-Pressure Washer that boasts w.wgpm, xxxxPSI, yyyDeg.Farenheit, and cost $zzzz.zz ! What am I missing here? | ||
| Verell Boaen (Verell)
Member Username: Verell Post Number: 565 Registered: 5-2001 |
Hmm, Looks like the engine washer is now selling under the Coleman Powermate lable. Anyway, Walmart still carries them: http://www.walmart.com/catalog/product.gsp?cat=51199&dept=5428&product_id=2018689&path=0%3A5428%3A51199%3A4093%3A3915%3A4337 Coleman Powermate Engine Cleaning Gun - $14.97  "Works with a wide variety of solvents and degreasers to perform a multitude of tasks." BTW, just found it on the Campbell Hausfeld web site http://www.chpower.com/ look way downn under: AIR TOOLS: Inflators, Carry Tanks & Automotive Tools you'll find: TL103200AV Engine Cleaning Gun BTW, you can use the engine washer to suds down your car for a quick wash. This is not a true pressure washer. It doesn't have the force that a pump driven high pressure washer has. This is both a feature & a problem. The good side is it isn't likely to strip paint or otherwise damage anything with the force of the spray. The down side is that some brushing of heavyier deposits is generally needed. I'd rather brush than strip tho. BTW, if you get one, like any other washer, after spraying solvents/cleaning agents, always rinse it out with fresh water. Lastly, pull the siphon tube out of the rinse water & let the air suck the tube & interior dry. Otherwise, something will attack the o-ring seals, or generally corrode the interior up(don't ask). | ||
| V.Z. (Ama328)
Junior Member Username: Ama328 Post Number: 101 Registered: 11-2002 |
Verell Boaen, do you have a name or part number for that Campbell Hausfeld 'engine cleaner' ? Looked on their website, didn't find anything... | ||
| Jerry W. (Tork1966)
Member Username: Tork1966 Post Number: 454 Registered: 7-2001 |
What most manufacturers make today (in machines that make hot water) are either cold/hot machines (meaning you can either have the burner on or off) or combination machines, which means they will do all that the aforementioned units will do plus the operator can dial down the pressure/volume to get a wet steam. The combination units therefore need a pressure/volume control. You have to reduce the volume of water going through the coil to about 1.5-2.0 gpm in order for the flame to have enough contact with the water to turn it to a vapor. Almost every one of my hot water Karcher machines are combination machines. The pure steam units are basically dinosaurs. My cheapest combo machine is my HDS-600ci which sells for around $2695.00. I almost always have used/refurbs on e-bay (as I do now) that generally end up selling for $1500-$1700. Most of these are 220 volt though. | ||
| Henryk (Henryk)
Member Username: Henryk Post Number: 449 Registered: 8-2001 |
Jerry: I agree with you.....keeping the distance is important....either would work. I quess my point was that why would someone even buy a true steam cleaner vs a hot water system, for home use.....the cost, from what I have heard, is almost double, if not more. Can you shed some light on this? More often than not, I find that most places that advertise "steam", for whatever reason, are actually hot water washers. Searching your web site revealed no steam cleaners for sale. | ||
| Jerry W. (Tork1966)
Member Username: Tork1966 Post Number: 452 Registered: 7-2001 |
Henry, it is true that you could blister paint at a true steam, but believe me, you will not damage rubber seals. The water vapor is only 250F+ within 1/4" or so from the end of the wand tip. You will not have the wand tip that close to your car and even if you did, that is not hot enough to melt seals. I have conducted many tests TRYING to do so, and I could not damage ANY rubber that I put in front of it. Also, the vapor cools off so fast as it hits the atmosphere that you can put your hand in front of it at a distance of 18". Consequently, if it gives you peace of mind, stay back a few inches. NEVER use water hotter than 150F on the exterior of your vehicle. I assure you your paint will blister. I sell systems like this to body shops for stripping body panels. You can view some of these systems on my website if you wish at www.wmpcs.com. Thanks. | ||
| Henryk (Henryk)
Member Username: Henryk Post Number: 447 Registered: 8-2001 |
Bill: 300 degrees will blister the paint, damage rubber seals. IMO. I think you are just asking for trouble. I would never do it......it was NOT recommended by the washer dealer also!!!!! 1250 psi, from a distance, will not hurt.....it is much less than that, as one gets farther away from the car. Pressure washing is also great for cleaning the wheel wells, wheels, and undercarriage. | ||
| Bill Tipton (Sleeper)
New member Username: Sleeper Post Number: 3 Registered: 12-2002 |
What do you mean that you can't wash it with steam? You steam clean it and then rinse the crap off with a low pressure hose. Pressure washing is begging for trouble! | ||
| Henryk (Henryk)
Member Username: Henryk Post Number: 444 Registered: 8-2001 |
Steam cleaning vs. Hot water pressure wahsing: When I bought by hot/cold pressure washer, I asked about a "true" steam system. While my pressure cost $2,000, a true steam washer went for about $5,000. A steam pressure washer has a temperature of at least 250-300 degrees. While a hot pressure washer, as mine, goes to about 195 degrees. I find that most places that advertise a steam system, are actually selling a hot water system. A true steam cleaner has limited uses vs a hot water spray system. For the car, just remember, get a hot water system that pumps out minimal (about 1 gal per minute and 1250 psi), and you will be safe in cleaning your engine. You can also wash the car with the hot/cold pressure washer, just stay farther away from it.......you CAN'T wash it with steam. BTW: Just a couple a days ago, I had someone come in with their steam system to defrost my frozen septic line. When they came, it was a hot water pressure washer, NOT steam......the owner even admitted it, when asked. His ad in the yellow pages states "steam". | ||
| David Lewis (Davidlewis)
New member Username: Davidlewis Post Number: 46 Registered: 2-2002 |
I also clean the engine but do it gently (degreaser soak>>soft brushing>>low pressure rinse). One thing I am concerned with is wet belts and cogs jumping a notch due to slippery surfaces under rapid torque. Perhaps this is unfounded, but I either allow the engine to fully air-dry or drive lightly with the right foot for a few miles. | ||
| Peter Sedlak (Peters)
New member Username: Peters Post Number: 45 Registered: 1-2003 |
Dear Mr. B With your last details, I'll be eating my breakfast off the engine!  Thank you! | ||
| Verell Boaen (Verell)
Member Username: Verell Post Number: 523 Registered: 5-2001 |
I use a air pressure powered suction 'Engine Washer" made by Campbell Hausfield. Think it was about $20 or so. I just mix up a quart to 1/2 gallon of pressure washer degreaser, or Citrus Solvent, solution with the hottest water I can get from the kitchen tap. It comes out as a hot mist with some air force behind it. I'm just careful where I spray which still lets me spray 90% or so of the engine compartment. The risky areas I wipe clean with the solution on rags & carefully use a hand spray bottle. For the heaviest deposits, I use a spray bottle to apply undiluted citrus solvent or a degreaser like Castrol Super Clean or Simple Green & let it soak for a while. Then go after it with the sprayer. If that doesn't get it, I resort to a parts cleaning brush. Real trick is to get the engine clean & never let the deposits build up in the 1st place. Usually a simple spray & rinse every couple of months with a little bit of wipe-down takes care of it. BTW, I wear the blue nitrile gloves. They don't pickup dirt & protect against scalding & the cleaning solution. They're very flexable. Also, when spraying I use a vapor mask as some cleaners are fairly nasty to breathe in like Gunk(ask me how I know). | ||
| Bill V (Doc)
Junior Member Username: Doc Post Number: 238 Registered: 9-2001 |
There are small , inexpensive,portable steam cleaning units for sale at stores like Walmarts, Target, etc. I have no idea how good they but, but I've been thinking of getting one just for this purpose. | ||
| Jerry W. (Tork1966)
Member Username: Tork1966 Post Number: 435 Registered: 7-2001 |
You can look to your local rental yard or else look in the Yellow Pages under "Steam Cleaning-Equipment and Rental" or "Pressure Washers- Sales and Service". Most places that sell commercial p.w. rent them as well. It is not that important to keep the motor running because you will not be "shocking" a hot block with cold water (for fear of cracking the block). | ||
| 89TCab (Jmg)
Member Username: Jmg Post Number: 360 Registered: 9-2001 |
I guess I never really thought about it until this thread...where can I get steam cleaning done or where can I pick up the hardware? - JMG | ||
| Peter Sedlak (Peters)
New member Username: Peters Post Number: 41 Registered: 1-2003 |
Is it a good idea to keep the engine running during the steam cleaning process? | ||
| Jerry W. (Tork1966)
Member Username: Tork1966 Post Number: 428 Registered: 7-2001 |
Steam cleaning is always better. The heated water will clean much better than cold (just like cleaning a greasy spaghetti plate in your sink) and you are now using about 1.0-1.5 gpm instead of 2+ and you will only be at about 250-300 psi. You are simply relying on the extreme heat as opposed to pressure to do the cleaning. I usually steam clean then let it dry and come back to the stains with a degreaser to loosen said stains (esp. on aluminum) and then s.c. once more. The result is a perfectly clean engine. There is less risk of getting water where it should not go with this method, although if you avoid aforementioned potential problem areas, you can p.w. as well. | ||
| Matt Lemus (Mlemus)
Intermediate Member Username: Mlemus Post Number: 1788 Registered: 8-2002 |
Peter, the same would apply. | ||
| Peter Sedlak (Peters)
New member Username: Peters Post Number: 37 Registered: 1-2003 |
Mr. Boaen's detailed reply has got me concerned enough NOT to wash the engine! Is steam cleaning a better option? | ||
| Verell Boaen (Verell)
Member Username: Verell Post Number: 522 Registered: 5-2001 |
3x8 ENGINE CLEANING PRECAUTIONS: (Most of these are probably obvious, but better safe than sorry.) 1) Keep all kinds of solvent/petroleum based degreaser well away from the timing belts. 2) The outer timing drive bearings & tensioner bearings are exposed, they only have their built-in seals for protection. These seals are not perfect. They're there to keep dust out, not pressurized liquids. There was some discussion (speculation?) a few months ago about frequent engine washing leading to premature failure of the outer timing drive bearings. 3)Avoid spraying water on the cams where they come out of the head. 4)The distributor cap of course. 4) Plan on pulling the plug wires & drying out the spark plug recesses. Most likely you'll hit one of the plug caps with the pressure spray & force it into the holes. 5) Avoid the clutch vents as previously mentioned, especially with solvent based cleaners. 6)Ditto for the brake calipers. It's very important to drive the car long enough to get the engine fully up to temperature & evaporate water out of the little crevices. eg: My cams had half-rings of rust where water had gotten under the cam seal lip at some point in time. Of course the rust had destroyed the seal lips. When I removed the rust, there were fine grooves in the cam that I had to work out with 400-600 grit sandpaper. | ||
| Jerry W. (Tork1966)
Member Username: Tork1966 Post Number: 418 Registered: 7-2001 |
Actually I got kind of sick of that look and put my cover back on. No advantage that I saw, just different. | ||
| David A. Spear (Detailman)
New member Username: Detailman Post Number: 45 Registered: 5-2002 |
Try some Gunk Brand enging degreaser. You will need to use the whole can and cover the distributor and alternator with a plastic bag.Just dont get to close with the wand to any thing. | ||
| DeMarzo (Demarzo)
New member Username: Demarzo Post Number: 14 Registered: 12-2002 |
Jerry, I noticed that your muffler cover is not on your 308. I was thinking about doing that any benefit? Looks great. | ||
| Henryk (Henryk)
Member Username: Henryk Post Number: 435 Registered: 8-2001 |
Jerry: Thanks for correcting me. It is NOT 100 gpm, but as you have stated, about 1-2 gpm.......my error. BTW: I recommend a "hot" water pressure washer. It does a LOT better than a cold one. Mine goes up to 195 degrees.......not steam, but plenty hot. | ||
| Bill V (Doc)
Junior Member Username: Doc Post Number: 237 Registered: 9-2001 |
I've had the experience of having water get into the clutch via the vent holes and wound up having a heck of a time shifting during the warm-up/dry -out ride. I have an '85 308, so I don't know if you'd have the same problem w a '77 | ||
| Jerry W. (Tork1966)
Member Username: Tork1966 Post Number: 412 Registered: 7-2001 |
Pressure washing is a very very GOOD idea! In fact, if you need a new one, make sure to get a hold of Uncle Jer!! P.S. Henry, I think you mean 2 gpm if you have a 120 volt machine. | ||
| Henryk (Henryk)
Member Username: Henryk Post Number: 433 Registered: 8-2001 |
I have pressure washed my TR numerous times, with no ill effects. My pressure washer pushes 1250 psi, and about 100 gal per minute. Don't get too high of a pressure washer, and DON'T get one that pushes 500 gal per minute. I cover, and avoid, the distributors and alternator. I use a commercial degreaser (water based). Make sure that you, after the pressure washing, get the car up to operating temperature, and drive it that way for a while. This will prevent any excess water from getting into the spark plug area, etc. | ||
| Peter Sedlak (Peters)
New member Username: Peters Post Number: 29 Registered: 1-2003 |
Its about time to clean up the engine and undercarriage. Is there any problems that I would not think about (other than getting moisture on the distributor cap)when using a high pressure hose and a good engine degreaser? |