| Author |
Message |
Verell Boaen (Verell)
Member
Username: Verell
Post Number: 556
Registered: 5-2001
| | Posted on Friday, February 14, 2003 - 9:47 pm: | |
Bruno,
re:"WHEN WILL THE WEATHER..."
PULEEZZZZ, Can I come down there where it's been warm all winter...
This AM it was -28 degrees F outside! My '91 detroit battleship didn't want to start this AM until after I left a charger on it for 10 min. My wife's Camry started in nothing flat tho, probably because I used Syntech 5w-50 last oil change.
Went skiing Wed. night & it was 15 below after I finshed my NASTAR runs at 8:00PM!!!
Seriously tho, 1st thing I'd check once it's acting up is the hot (battery) side of the ignition coils. If it's low and/or fluctuating, then backtrack towards the battery, most likely it'll be in the fuse panel.
If the voltage to the coils is around 12-13V & not fluctuating, then check the spark voltage as JRV suggests. If it's ok, then check the fuel pump voltage to see if it's low, & if so backtrack accordingly.
If both of those are good, then it's got to be a fuel delivery or electrical problem affecting fuel flow, & local to the engine compartment. I don't have a wiring diagram for a carb'd 3x8, so I can't help beyond this point.
If the spark is good, but you're only getting partial power, then it's almost got too be a mixture related problem. If it were a '50s vintage american car, I'd bet on a partial vapor lock.
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JRV (Jrvall)
Member
Username: Jrvall
Post Number: 925
Registered: 11-2002
| | Posted on Thursday, February 13, 2003 - 7:43 pm: | |
>>>I examined the distributors and dont think the problem is thee.<<<
At PEP Boys or simular you can get a very cheap Dwell Meter to check the points and a little Graduated Tool for checking coil voltage.
If it's heat related it might be Intake Air Leaks at the Carb Bases or Float Levels. |
Greg Owens (Owens84qv)
Member
Username: Owens84qv
Post Number: 658
Registered: 10-2001
| | Posted on Thursday, February 13, 2003 - 6:41 pm: | |
Bruno...it was only 68 here in the panhandle...not fit for man nor beast. |
Bruno (Originalsinner)
Member
Username: Originalsinner
Post Number: 951
Registered: 5-2002
| | Posted on Thursday, February 13, 2003 - 6:22 pm: | |
I examined the distributors and dont think the problem is thee.Everything still looks new. I think something is going electricaly or somehow the emission system gets goofy. It is obvious heat brings it on as I can drive the car for an hour plus ok,Turn it off 5 minutes get in it and same crap. I will solve this as soon as the weather breaks as me and my fcar mechanic buddies are grabbing the tools,a trailing car and driving all day and trial and error till we get it. Of course WHEN WILL THE WEATHER BREAK IN TH N.E. WHERE IS SPRING???? And if any of u Florida guys post the temp down there I will scream. |
Greg Rodgers (Joechristmas)
Member
Username: Joechristmas
Post Number: 668
Registered: 3-2001
| | Posted on Tuesday, February 11, 2003 - 11:03 am: | |
You can get switch over to electronic ignition for not much more than a set of points. I don't miss the points at all. I used a Crane XR700 points conversion kit. It comes with the unit, optical sensor/trigger, etc. They are approx. $100 each. (need 2) I also replaced the coils. I noticed a large difference. |
JRV (Jrvall)
Member
Username: Jrvall
Post Number: 895
Registered: 11-2002
| | Posted on Tuesday, February 11, 2003 - 8:32 am: | |
points are unlikely to pack up after 45 minutes...fuel or spark?
could be bad coil or ballast resistor overheating or fuel pressure problem....
do you have any exhaust gas numbers cold, normal running temp and when the problem occurs?
that would be a good place to start.
MSD's can overheat and cause sporadic strange missing problems, one of the reasons I don't like or use them. |
Bruno (Originalsinner)
Member
Username: Originalsinner
Post Number: 943
Registered: 5-2002
| | Posted on Tuesday, February 11, 2003 - 8:30 am: | |
Exhaust is new. Choke is out. It does seem like the symptom of the choke being in but it's not. You did however make me wonder now if maybe the cold start,fast idle, mechanism or something else is coming into play and moving the linkage on the carbs when it's hot? Might unhook it and try that.Maybe unhook choke also but I know it's not on .It stays of and the light stays off when the choke is off and this happens. |
Bruno (Originalsinner)
Member
Username: Originalsinner
Post Number: 942
Registered: 5-2002
| | Posted on Tuesday, February 11, 2003 - 8:26 am: | |
It has original point set up with both distribuors in use |
Philip Airey (Pma1010)
Junior Member
Username: Pma1010
Post Number: 119
Registered: 7-2002
| | Posted on Monday, February 10, 2003 - 12:38 pm: | |
Allen Bishop describes an owner having similar problems in his book. Turns out the exhaust was the cause. As it got warmed up, all the trapped debris (rust particules et al) clogged up the baffles and the car lost all kinds of power.
Just a thought |
TomD (Tifosi)
Advanced Member
Username: Tifosi
Post Number: 2618
Registered: 9-2001
| | Posted on Monday, February 10, 2003 - 12:28 pm: | |
shot in the dark - anything to do with the choke being left in??? |
Ken (Allyn)
Member
Username: Allyn
Post Number: 710
Registered: 10-2001
| | Posted on Monday, February 10, 2003 - 12:24 pm: | |
My .02: If it happens when hot only, it seems that something electronic is getting fried. Heat will up the resistance and create havoc. Is there anything aftermarket that is in a hot area? |
Steve Magnusson (91tr)
Intermediate Member
Username: 91tr
Post Number: 1402
Registered: 1-2001
| | Posted on Monday, February 10, 2003 - 12:08 pm: | |
Bruno -- Points or aftermarket electronic ignition(s)? Have you confirmed a decent +12V on the yellow supply wire going to the coils (or an aftermarket box)? |
Bruno (Originalsinner)
Member
Username: Originalsinner
Post Number: 941
Registered: 5-2002
| | Posted on Monday, February 10, 2003 - 11:57 am: | |
Both banks are on just half like power and then eventualy backfires. |
Mike Procopio (Pupz308)
Junior Member
Username: Pupz308
Post Number: 83
Registered: 10-2002
| | Posted on Sunday, February 09, 2003 - 6:51 pm: | |
Thanks, Matt.
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Matt Lemus (Mlemus)
Intermediate Member
Username: Mlemus
Post Number: 1889
Registered: 8-2002
| | Posted on Sunday, February 09, 2003 - 4:39 pm: | |
Mike,
Mine was from a bad batch made june 01 to july 01. You have nothing to worry about. |
Mike Procopio (Pupz308)
Junior Member
Username: Pupz308
Post Number: 82
Registered: 10-2002
| | Posted on Sunday, February 09, 2003 - 4:13 pm: | |
Uh, oh... I just replaced mine with a Bendex... How freakin hard can it be to make a fuel pump that lasts? My 308's original coronoa made it 54k miles in 25 years!
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Matt Lemus (Mlemus)
Intermediate Member
Username: Mlemus
Post Number: 1886
Registered: 8-2002
| | Posted on Sunday, February 09, 2003 - 3:55 pm: | |
JRV,
I agree. I just replaced my fuel pump on the 308 two months ago and it has gone bad already. Bendex is replacing it under warranty. |
Steve Magnusson (91tr)
Intermediate Member
Username: 91tr
Post Number: 1399
Registered: 1-2001
| | Posted on Sunday, February 09, 2003 - 3:08 pm: | |
Bruno -- Are you running points or something electronic for ignition? And when you say 1/2 power do you mean that you've identified that 1 bank goes dead (and the engine runs smoothly on the other) or that power is just way down and it's a more of an irregular running situation? Probably not your problem, but it never hurts on a US '78-'79 B/S to better connect the upper three fuse terminals on the left hand fuse box -- power comes in on the large azure wire on the top of fuse #2 and then is bridged over (by the rivet/plates on the back of the fusebox itself) to the top of fuse #1 where it leaves by the yellow wire to go to the coils. Just a thought (and a useful rework IMO even if it isn't your problem)... |
JRV (Jrvall)
Member
Username: Jrvall
Post Number: 862
Registered: 11-2002
| | Posted on Sunday, February 09, 2003 - 2:23 pm: | |
The problem with trying to diagnois situations like this is everyone always says everything checks out fine or is new...it's not possible for everything to be fine and still have problems...something hasn't been checked or checked properly....
The Alternator could be the source, other than that there are only two systems in play, unless the engine is severly overheating and those are Fuel & Spark.
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Mike Procopio (Pupz308)
Junior Member
Username: Pupz308
Post Number: 80
Registered: 10-2002
| | Posted on Sunday, February 09, 2003 - 1:59 pm: | |
Alternator? I recently had a catastrophic failure, November '02, when my "new" coils "failed," running fine off of one bank, then another, 1/2 power (but smooth), sputtering. Melted a cat, blew a header. (I see you've taken steps to prevent such a problem.)
Now, that's all fine, but the exact same problem happened in 98--melted cat, blown header, traced to a strange "intermittent" ignition coil failure.
Shortly after this ($$$) repair, the "intermittently faulty" voltage regulator in my 308 finally failed, sending the battery off to an excruciating, caps-blown-off overcharged 17.0-volt death.
I now suspect that a failing alternator (most likely, the voltage regulator) could have been the culprit. All along, everything else checked out fine.
You very well may have a different problem, but I strongly recommend that you rebuild the alternator, replacing the VR. You'll find this is cheap ($100 to $150) compared to the repairs you've already done. Upgrade it to 85A. It's a Bosch alternator. You'll need the exact P/N of the alternator to find the correct voltage regulator. Do a search on this site, you'll find some good information from Verell and the like.
If you can get the car to sputter, everytime at 45mins of driving, you should be able to track this problem down. Next time it happens, check the voltage at the battery with a voltmeter. You want it to read, say 13.0 to 14.5 volts.
Let us know what it is when you finally find it (and you will find it--these cars are finite!). Hope it works out for you.
And if it's any consolation, most 308 owners, I would say, have replaced everything you've listed and more. It makes for a much healthier 24 year old car!
Good luck,
--Mike
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Matt Lemus (Mlemus)
Intermediate Member
Username: Mlemus
Post Number: 1883
Registered: 8-2002
| | Posted on Sunday, February 09, 2003 - 1:50 pm: | |
How high? I think over 5 or 7 lbs you flood. |
Bruno (Originalsinner)
Member
Username: Originalsinner
Post Number: 939
Registered: 5-2002
| | Posted on Sunday, February 09, 2003 - 1:48 pm: | |
New. 2.nd one. Even put one in with more psi. didnt help. |
Matt Lemus (Mlemus)
Intermediate Member
Username: Mlemus
Post Number: 1881
Registered: 8-2002
| | Posted on Sunday, February 09, 2003 - 1:46 pm: | |
Fuel pump maybe? |
Bruno (Originalsinner)
Member
Username: Originalsinner
Post Number: 937
Registered: 5-2002
| | Posted on Sunday, February 09, 2003 - 1:45 pm: | |
Well I got the 79 308 out I was working on last fall. It now has new belts (all including timing) new bearings,tensioners,rebuilt water pump,rebuilt distributors,test pipes,new mufler new ignition coils.new fuel pump and filter. emmision system intact new spark plugs,wires etc. After u drive the car for around 45 minutes or so and get it good and hot it starts to sputter and run at half power.If u shut the car off after 45 minutes and engine and oil temp is hot it usually does it as soon as u start up and get going again. I surrender on this car. Several bright Ferrari mechanics have also giving up on ideals. I bypassed the switch under the seat.My last 2 guesses are fuse boxes and igniton switch any Ideals. All welcome. Oh an I tried it with the air pump belt off. No change.And the carbs are rebuilt and reset. Remember car runs perfect and strong until this happens. |