| Author |
Message |
Kenneth Brealey (Krbrealey)
| | Posted on Friday, April 13, 2001 - 11:06 am: | |
John,
I bought my 308 from George. He does a lot of foriegn car work here in Columbus, OH. Lots of Ferrari, Jag, and Lambos etc. Good reputable shop. Dealing with him remotely shouldn't be a concern. |
John Sindelar (78gtsjohn)
| | Posted on Thursday, April 12, 2001 - 8:17 pm: | |
I just saw a heavy duty water pump on Ebay. He will sell one for $375.00 This guy imports directly from Italy. You can contact him direct.
george.........www.evansauto.com work
1-614-471-7535 |
Steve (Steve)
| | Posted on Thursday, March 01, 2001 - 7:58 pm: | |
The problem is in the seal. If the seal that isolates the water jacket (impeller) starts to leak then it destroys the bearing. They changed the front bearing to a larger size to take more of the belt load. The bearing outside diameter O.D. and inside dia. I.D. are sized for the pump body and the shaft size. If you can get a bearing with larger balls it most likely won't fit. Get the pump with the larger bearing and replace the pulley and you're in business.The seal is the tough part to align because of the clearances between the impeller and bearing. |
Craig Dewey (Craigfl)
| | Posted on Thursday, March 01, 2001 - 6:54 am: | |
Peter... There are ball bearings that are "high capacity" = longer life, that are manufactured with an extra ball in the race. The balls are the same size but the retainer has an extra ball. Usually, the only way to assemble them(at the factory) is to grind a half moon in the inner or outer race so they all can be put in place. Bearing capacity is increased so that life may be doubled. If bearings are failing from loading problems-- tight belts, this would be an easy way to assure longer life without any other modifications. If the seal you speak of is failing and allowing coolant to ruin the bearing, then maybe the seal needs to be upgraded. Note that it is also possible for a bearing failure to cause a seal problem, especially when clearances become excessive due to wear.
If you have the bearing make and number, I can look to see if they make a high capacity version. |
'75 308 GT4 (Peter)
| | Posted on Wednesday, February 28, 2001 - 10:03 pm: | |
Craig, when you say extra ball, do you mean one more ball in the cartridge resulting in thicker cups/races and smaller balls? Is there any mechanical/physical advantage to this (stronger, longer lasting)?
Looking at the cross-section view in the workshop manual, it looks like there's a seal right behind the impeller, ahead of the first bearing. Should this be the item that would fail first/most? |
Craig Dewey (Craigfl)
| | Posted on Wednesday, February 28, 2001 - 6:55 am: | |
I agree Peter... If just the bearings have failed, it's so easy to replace them. Most bearings are well identified by manufacturer and part number on the outer race and can be found in manufacturers catalogs. The trick is to make sure you get the proper seals since there are so many different kinds - shields, seals, one side, both sides, etc. Another thing I do if I would like to "upgrade" the bearing for longer life is to find a replacement with an extra ball (if it's a ball bearing). This gives a higher capacity and therefore longer life and fits into the same space. This usually helps situations like water pump bearings since the belt load can dramatically affect life because of the overhung load -- how many of us adjust belt tension properly/accurately! Lastly, you can bore out the housing for a larger bearing(wider or greater O.D) in a lot of cases to get that extra life -- which is what I believe Nick does. |
'75 308 GT4 (Peter)
| | Posted on Tuesday, February 27, 2001 - 9:35 pm: | |
It seems Rob that no one answered one of your questions. Yes the pump circulates the coolant through the engine and the pipes/rad. If the pump fails, the water doesn't circulate, boils until it evapourates, then the aluminum melts...
Why are people so ready to get rid of the whole pump. Its the bearings that fail from exposure to the coolant, why can't those just be replaced? I read somewhere that the aluminum corrodes around in the impeller housing, is this true?
My pump was replaced by the previous owner a few years ago and the pulley has just one groove (remember, I don't have any air-pumps). Plus, no coolant weeping (even with all of the other grime on it). I'll be opening up mine anyways with this rebuild. |
Neil Green (Neilg)
| | Posted on Tuesday, February 27, 2001 - 3:17 pm: | |
Rob, when I had the water pump rebuilt several years ago, I seem to recall it was in the neighborhood of $400+ (parts and labor). This time, I decided to do the servicing myself so went with a new pump ($375). Good luck with your servicing. |
Neil Green (Neilg)
| | Posted on Tuesday, February 27, 2001 - 3:13 pm: | |
Heard back from T. Rutlands. Apparently the newer water pump pulley wheel (for the 42 mm bearing pump) will fit properly, with no belt misalignment problems on my 1977 USA car...I really didn't want to have to shave metal off the new pump I just installed! I learned this pulley wheel doesn't have the inner belt groove which drove an air pump, which is what my car was originally fitted with. This pulley wheel just has the main groove for the belt which connects with the alternator and crankshaft. I'm always learning something new with this car! |
Rob Lay (Rob328gts)
| | Posted on Tuesday, February 27, 2001 - 1:31 pm: | |
Since mine is being rebuilt today, I would still like to get an idea of people's experience with P&L costs on new vs. rebuilds. Thanks. |
Steve Magnusson (91tr)
| | Posted on Tuesday, February 27, 2001 - 12:36 pm: | |
The later version (larger) 308 water pump bearings are 42 mm OD while (I think) the earlier (smaller) bearings were 35 mm OD (just in case someone wanted to identify which water pump they have). |
Neil Green (Neilg)
| | Posted on Tuesday, February 27, 2001 - 11:40 am: | |
I am awaiting word back from Troy of T. Rutlands. Apparently they increased the bearing size of the 308 water pump sometime around 1977, and the original water pump pulley wheel will not clear the added dimension (fatness) of the newer pump....hoping it's just a matter of buying the later water pump pulley wheel; if not, will have to take off some water pump fin material in order to ensure proper clearance for the wheel to spin freely...will let you know how I make out.... |
Trent Carter (Tcarte04)
| | Posted on Tuesday, February 27, 2001 - 10:26 am: | |
Neil, I heard there were two different water pumps installed on the 308, depending on which mechanic assembled the motor. Maybe you have the wrong one? |
Rob Lay (Rob328gts)
| | Posted on Tuesday, February 27, 2001 - 10:04 am: | |
Hmm, I just talked to my mechanic and I guess I'm having a similar problem as well. Something with the bearings and they suggested a water pump rebuild. The total cost with labor will be about $500. They said it could fail and leave me stranded, so I thought it was a good idea to fix.
Can someone tell me all about the waterpump, new ones, and rebuilding them. Remember, I'm just learning about the mechanics... what's the purpose of the water pump? The only water I can think of is the water/coolant that starts circulating around the engine to keep it cool? |
Neil Green (Neilg)
| | Posted on Tuesday, February 27, 2001 - 8:48 am: | |
Guys, thanks for all the inputs. I ended up purchasing a new water pump from T. Rutlands. The reassembly job is almost complete, but I noticed the new pump body is fatter, thus the original water pump pulley wheel (1977 USA 308 GTB) will not slide over the water pump shaft enough to spin freely (the inside diameter not large enough to accomodate the fatter pump body).... does anyone know if the new water pumps have a superseded pump pulley wheel? Thanks.... |
Erik Jonsson (Gamester)
| | Posted on Monday, February 26, 2001 - 10:02 pm: | |
A good bet is to have Nick Scianna (listed in link section) do a rebuild/mod. I think he costs less than a new pump and uses better parts/seals. Work comes with a warranty. |
Trent Carter (Tcarte04)
| | Posted on Monday, February 26, 2001 - 8:53 am: | |
I just replaced a failed water pump (~$500), in order for water to get out of the weep hole it must pass through the bearing or the bearing seal. This removed my bearings lubrication and rusted the ball bearings until they were just little rust lumps. I say replace the pump before it seizes and leaves you stranded. |
yelcab
| | Posted on Saturday, January 20, 2001 - 10:30 pm: | |
Nope
That is not normal. But, unless it is dripping a drop a second, I would not worry about it. But, if you want your ferrari to be perfect, then you will want to replace that water pump. But, then what will you do with all the other oil leaks? |
Neil Green
| | Posted on Saturday, January 20, 2001 - 8:40 pm: | |
I have a 77 308 GTB (20K miles). Since the car was stored for many years, had major service performed 5K miles ago. Included was water pump rebuild. During winter storage, I run the car periodically. Have noticed on the underside of the water pump (weep hole) residual coolant (2 fingertips worth). Is it "normal" for the water pump on a 308 to perform in this fashion, or is this a tell tale sign the pump is going bad, ready for replacement? Any comments would be appreciated. |
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