| Author |
Message |
steve coleby (Ferraridriver)
Junior Member
Username: Ferraridriver
Post Number: 63
Registered: 6-2003
| | Posted on Friday, June 27, 2003 - 8:04 am: | |
Hi
What does anyone think about the power gains possible by adding throttle bodies with long trumpets and an autronic SM2 ECU and having the valve poslished would give me
Thanks
Steve |
BretM (Bretm)
Advanced Member
Username: Bretm
Post Number: 3161
Registered: 2-2001
| | Posted on Tuesday, February 18, 2003 - 3:41 pm: | |
I add too much already, but I think calling Norwood would be a good idea if you want a mild increase in power. There was (maybe still is) another Mondial running around 350hp from Norwood on this site. Snagging Mark's old supercharger would have been a great catch, but I believe that is gone now. For the price it will be hard to beat something Norwood sets up for that HP range, needless to say the amount of time this project takes will be a lot less too.
And the 3.2 engine would have no problem running this type of power in regards to durability. |
BretM (Bretm)
Advanced Member
Username: Bretm
Post Number: 3159
Registered: 2-2001
| | Posted on Tuesday, February 18, 2003 - 3:22 pm: | |
I would say Ric brings up a good point, I have brought the single throttle body and plenum about as far as it will go NA. You can get velocity stacks made up for the 308 for around $4G with individual throttles. If I stay NA down the road I would go that route. 3.2x110 works out to 352hp. One should definitely be able to top Ferrari's current output per liter as the combustion chambers haven't really changed and the older cars are more oversquare, but Ric points out that it comes at a price. I'd say his price estimate is pretty close, even if you do your own work.
Kind of on a random note, but the big thing I worry about keeping with the NA stuff is the lack of torque. I'm hesitant to do stuff to the 308 that can't be brought back to stock (God only knows why one would eventually want it stock again, but...). Even with it bored and stroked the most torque you're gonna get out of it is like 280lbft. With forced induction forget about it, the skies the limit. You could set it up with more power (especially low end) and still have the ability to swap back to stock if one ever wanted to. |
Kent R. DeAvilla (Lust4spyders)
New member
Username: Lust4spyders
Post Number: 12
Registered: 1-2003
| | Posted on Tuesday, February 18, 2003 - 12:26 am: | |
Alright, maybe I am getting a little horsepower greedy. I am getting the impression that 340 hp is more feasable. I am currently running a K & N filter with a stainless steel hyperflow cat. I have a tubi exhaust on the way. Is there a mild supercharger out there that would accomplish my goal combined with the other components. Would the supercharger compromise the reliability of the stout 3.2? |
Ric Rainbolt (Ricrain)
Member
Username: Ricrain
Post Number: 478
Registered: 2-2002
| | Posted on Monday, February 17, 2003 - 11:52 pm: | |
I think Bret is a little optimistic, IMHO. 360 HP from a 3.2 would be very difficult. The single throttle body is a big problem. The cams are too mild. Even with big cams, high-comp pistons, etc., you'd have to really, really work the engine over backwards and forwards to get to those kind of numbers. Expect to spend $15K, minimum. |
Kent R. DeAvilla (Lust4spyders)
New member
Username: Lust4spyders
Post Number: 11
Registered: 1-2003
| | Posted on Monday, February 17, 2003 - 11:30 pm: | |
Mark, I am interested in the supercharger set-up. Could you give me more information? How much hp(ballpark) would I have with stock 3.2 engine, tubi exhaust, k & n, hyperflow s.s. cat, and conservitive boost blower? I am ready to buy a blower or turbo. Sounds like it would be cheaper and more reliable than my initial plan. |
BretM (Bretm)
Advanced Member
Username: Bretm
Post Number: 3150
Registered: 2-2001
| | Posted on Monday, February 17, 2003 - 9:48 am: | |
Forgot to add, for making a hot rod you're better off with the 4v heads than anything else. The latter 5 valve heads are weaker (intake side) and don't hold up nearly as well as the older 4 valve heads do. IMO the 308qv (328 is the same) has just about the most unfulfilled potential out of any Ferrari engine ever. Whether the trans will hold up is another question, but to me it is a stout piece and although the 355 trans is the best IMO from a strength perspective, the 308 is strong enough. |
BretM (Bretm)
Advanced Member
Username: Bretm
Post Number: 3149
Registered: 2-2001
| | Posted on Monday, February 17, 2003 - 9:44 am: | |
360hp works out to like 112hp/L, so it is within reasonable means. The 360 makes around 110hp/L with all the emissions garbage and the engine setup to run anywhere in the world. You'd have to basically setup the 3.2 like the newer Ferraris (around 11:1 comp, fuel/ignition management, a little cam work and different timing, head work, etc.). The new cars have all this done in Maranello so I don't see anyone making much more HP than Ferrari does per liter, but there is some room. I wouldn't be surprised with 115hp/L being done, 120 would be up there, anything higher than that and you would have to be a magician IMO or one of those aholes that runs a street car on race gas, etc., getting 20 extra hp at the price of making the car entirely unusable on the street. Doing stuff NA takes a lot more planning, research, and time in the shop, not forced induction is easy to do, but it is much less complex and there are a lot more people doing it. The other thing you can do is bore and stroke it, you should be able to get at 3.6-3.7L out of the 3.2 block. That would be infinitely more work than to just do forced induction.
I think for a mild boost in power a nice single turbo setup (Norwood sells them for a like $5k I think) would be very nice. For the next two years I plan on running my NA setup, but at best I'll be making 350hp (optimism is beautiful) and I feel I will grow tired of still being beaten by the insane German ubersedans and $20k Camaros. Granted I rarely race, but it would be nice to know I could win. Chances are I will eventually go supercharged like Mark, maybe with a bore and stroke though if I have absolutely no common sense when I decide. |
Mark Eberhardt (Me_k)
Member
Username: Me_k
Post Number: 399
Registered: 5-2002
| | Posted on Monday, February 17, 2003 - 9:15 am: | |
I agree with Lawrence and Peter. 360 HP can be done naturally aspirated, but it's really a full race prep'd engine. You'll need big cams, high compression, probably individual throttle bodies, you might get away with the stock intake, but you need EFI, tunable ignition. All this and you�ll make 360 @ 8000+ rpm. I hate to sound like a broken record, but for the street I would recommend you leave the engine alone and add a supercharger. If you�re headed to the track, consider a turbo. With either a turbo or blower you will spend less than half the money and have a more reliable car IMO. |
Lawrence Coppari (Lawrence)
Member
Username: Lawrence
Post Number: 511
Registered: 4-2002
| | Posted on Monday, February 17, 2003 - 6:01 am: | |
You are asking for a 38% increase in power. I'd be surprised if you can get it with what you are planning.
|
'75 308 GT4 (Peter)
Intermediate Member
Username: Peter
Post Number: 2489
Registered: 12-2000
| | Posted on Monday, February 17, 2003 - 1:00 am: | |
You'd need to ditch the K-Jetronic and install individual throttle (or roller-barrel)-bodies, aftermarket, programmable F.I. (and they too would support distributorless ignition) and BIG cams (long duration, high-lift). Hi-Comp pistons too.
Speak to Nick Scianna (an advertiser here)... |
Kent R. DeAvilla (Lust4spyders)
New member
Username: Lust4spyders
Post Number: 10
Registered: 1-2003
| | Posted on Monday, February 17, 2003 - 12:35 am: | |
I think I'm on the verge of my first Ferrari Engine Rebuild. I have an 87' Mondial 3.2 Spider(328 engine) that just slipped a cambelt. I'm going to mildly modify the car without turbo. I currently have a S.S. high performance stainless cat thats very small with a K&N air filter. If I had the heads ported and polished by SP Performance, and installed a Tubi, would I acheive this HP? Has anyone modified their 328's successfully, close to this application? Is there any direct coil ignitions on any 328's out there? |