| Author | Message | ||
| Erich Walz (Deleteall)
Junior Member Username: Deleteall Post Number: 169 Registered: 12-2001 |
Why not a V-12 powered 308 for dual purpose use? You would then have the allure and mystique ( and maintenance fun) of a V-12 Ferrari, and have chances to use all that power without worries. Start with an engineless 308 (dare I say, Ebay type car). Then install a dual purpose track/street interior. Finally, top it off with a PPG two-part primer (black) professionally applied. That way it would still look really cool, but you could drive the hell out of it because nicks and scrathches wouldn't be an issue. A good primer job will beat a trashed paint job anyday. BTW, I saw a primered 911 in Excellence that looked really good. | ||
| Tom Yang (Tyang)
New member Username: Tyang Post Number: 7 Registered: 12-2002 |
Hi Rob, I guess you know my choice! V-12s are special, and when you put the time into the car, the rewards are even greater. It's like the difference between mechanical watches and quartz watches. The quartz watch does a better job, but there's something nice about the engineering that goes into a mechanical watch. I've been through the track/street issue with a Porsche I owned. I spent a ton of time and money making the 911 more of a track car that it became less enjoyable on the street. Pushing the car to what it was capable on the street was just too dangerous. Then the enjoyment only came when I tracked the car, and that was when I could fit it in my schedule. My 330 America can be enjoyed whenever I have time for a drive, and even when it's parked because I love tinkering. You already have a 328, so "now it's time for something completely different!" (Monty Python) Tom Yang http://www.tomyang.net | ||
| Charles Barton (Airbarton)
Member Username: Airbarton Post Number: 308 Registered: 11-2002 |
Good luck with your search Rob, I hope you get a really good one! | ||
| Rob Lay (Rob328gts)
Board Administrator Username: Rob328gts Post Number: 3683 Registered: 12-2000 |
I will someday Charles. Ferrari is my life and my passion, but I love all cars. Luckily a good friend of mine collects about any car with wheels on it. I get to enjoy many of them first hand. Other makes on my list may be a Lamborghini, Pantera, Boss 302, and I want one of those classic trucks with external front bumpers. With the Challenge car project in the works, I will have to wait a little while, but the V12 will be the next one. Thanks for everyone's input. I'm beggining to find out rebuilding a 60's Ferrari engine really isn't much more than rebuilding like a 308 engine. You would think it's 3 times as much, but it may not even be double. | ||
| Charles Barton (Airbarton)
Member Username: Airbarton Post Number: 304 Registered: 11-2002 |
Why not do something other than a Ferrari? Wouldn't it be nice to own two different marques? How about a Lotus or a Lambo or maybe even something like an old Vette. I love my Ferrari but personally I would want to have a more diverse collection. | ||
| L. Wayne Ausbrooks (Lwausbrooks)
Member Username: Lwausbrooks Post Number: 969 Registered: 8-2002 |
Rob, talk to Tom Yang about his experience. I would go with a GTE as a starter car, besides, Tom's been through most of it and has done a thorough job of documenting the entire thing. I'm not just talking about what he has posted on his site. Tom is doing a book on his project and has documented every little detail involved, including many photos. I think that you can benefit from his experience and trials/errors. Besides all of this, you know I'M going to tell you to do the V12! Just, whatever you do, don't try to do the 99-point concours thing. | ||
| EFWUN (Efwun)
New member Username: Efwun Post Number: 10 Registered: 2-2003 |
I'd add one car to your wonderful dilemna. The 365 GT 2+2 may be big and heavy, but if you're going through it, you can lose lots of weight in insulation and the "load-leveling" rear suspension. The motor is great; torquey and capable of LOTS of power. Also, quite reasonably priced, and from some angles, a really pretty car. I'd have one in a heartbeat, if I wasn't on our personal, income-driven "car limiter!" Good Luck | ||
| EFWUN (Efwun)
New member Username: Efwun Post Number: 9 Registered: 2-2003 |
Gee, what a great dilemna!! I'd add one car to your equation; the 365 GT 2+2. Big and heavy, true, but if you're going through it, you can strip lots of the excess insulation, and the "load-leveling" rear suspension. Motor is great, torguey and capable of LOTS of power. Also, it has the downdraft Webers, as opposed to the emissions-driven side drafts on the GTC/4. Perhaps people will laugh, but I'd have one in a heartbeat, if I wasn't bumping against our income-driven automotive limiter!! Good Luck!! | ||
| Steven R. Rochlin (Enjoythemusic)
Junior Member Username: Enjoythemusic Post Number: 154 Registered: 4-2002 |
Ric, >>...For me, the most time consuming part of the restorations was, by far, the cosmetic work. The mechanical stuff doesn't take as long, but maybe that's due to equipment and/or technique...<<< Amen. >>>On the cosmetic side, it seems straight forward, but there are dozens of unanticipated little things that make it drag on.<<< Amen. GREAT POST Ric!!!!! Enjoy The Drive, Steven R. Rochlin | ||
| Dr Tommy Cosgrove (Vwalfa4re)
Member Username: Vwalfa4re Post Number: 559 Registered: 5-2001 |
Anyone who has the means should own a 12 cylinder car at least once in their life. Go with the 12, besides you already have a great V8 now. | ||
| Rob Lay (Rob328gts)
Board Administrator Username: Rob328gts Post Number: 3592 Registered: 12-2000 |
Ric, I'm glad you commented, because you've already been through what I hope to have been through ten years from now. Maybe you can save me a year or two? ;) Don't get me wrong, a track/race and a vintage V-12 are my next two Ferraris, I just don't know which order. | ||
| Ric Rainbolt (Ricrain)
Member Username: Ricrain Post Number: 483 Registered: 2-2002 |
Well, I guess I'd have to comment.  I have been entirely through two 308's and an 85 TR (engine, trans, interior and trim). The 308 took two years. The TR took three years, but was delayed due to work and health problems. For me, the most time consuming part of the restorations was, by far, the cosmetic work. The mechanical stuff doesn't take as long, but maybe that's due to equipment and/or technique. The mechanical part is fairly "standardized". By that, I mean, a motor rebuild is a motor rebuild. You have expected challenges, and anticipated solutions. You mave find a thing or two extra, but once you decide how much you're going to put into an engine rebuild, you do it and you're done. On the cosmetic side, it seems straight forward, but there are dozens of unanticipated little things that make it drag on. Sourcing parts (and labor) for proper cosmetic work takes research and patience. If you restore a classic Ferrari 12-cylinder, you're going to want to do it the concours way. That is, "orignality is king". For instance, it's one thing on a 308 to powder coat something that should be anodized... but on an older 12, it's a harder decision. Sometimes you can't just buy a particular hose or fastener because it's better, but have to consider the impact it would have on your scoring. Hmm, sounds like I'm rambling, so I'll stop now. | ||
| Mark (Markg)
Member Username: Markg Post Number: 393 Registered: 2-2001 |
I too would go with a 12. Had a chance to get a prime '62 250GTE with spare trany and other parts a few years back for $5500. Couldn't find a bank anywhere to loan me the money.... | ||
| Gene Agatep (Gagatep)
Member Username: Gagatep Post Number: 252 Registered: 8-2002 |
Rob, do something similar to the TR of William H (Countachxx) but set it up for dual purpose street and track - but more to the track side. build a light weight 12 cylinder TR set up the car from scratch - a concourse classic car is a garage queen that will be such a pain if you enjoy driving your cars. any knicks will annoy you after putting that much time into keeping prestine - for a track car - your more into your cars performance | ||
| Rob Lay (Rob328gts)
Board Administrator Username: Rob328gts Post Number: 3590 Registered: 12-2000 |
LOL, I doubt I'll track a 330 too much, maybe once for a video, but that's it. Tom Yang has video of a 330 2+2 being tracked hard last year. Pretty darn cool. | ||
| TomD (Tifosi)
Advanced Member Username: Tifosi Post Number: 2789 Registered: 9-2001 |
if you get a 12 you will prob be better off tracking the 328, a 330 might be hard at the track | ||
| Dom Vitarella (Dom)
Junior Member Username: Dom Post Number: 78 Registered: 11-2002 |
Ahhh, what a dilemma. I think your best bet would be the 330 GT 2+2 (I personally prefer the 2 headlight model). Dom | ||
| Andreas Forrer (Tifosi12)
Member Username: Tifosi12 Post Number: 476 Registered: 10-2002 |
I'd go with the 330 2+2. Beautiful car, underpriced and probably easier to work on then say a cramped mid engine 12 cylinder. A Ferrari really has to have 12 cylinders (no flames please, mine also has 'only' 8), so you'd cover that one nicely. You already have an 8, and everybody who ever drove a 12 says they're worlds apart (I agree, having driven a TR once). Your 328 is really not that different from a 308, so why bother? Having said all that, my 2nd F car actually will be a 328 and not a V-12, but that's me, mechanically challenged and not into rebuilding a car. ;) | ||
| Rob Lay (Rob328gts)
Board Administrator Username: Rob328gts Post Number: 3585 Registered: 12-2000 |
Next year I'll finally be getting my 2nd Ferrari. I want to go through the entire car myself, I don't care if it takes 3-5 years. I want the experience regardless of cost. I'll do each job 5 times until I get it right if that's what it takes. I want your opinion which car I should do... 1) Classic V-12, like a PF, GTE, or 330 2+2. 2) Euro carb 308 GTB. The classic V-12 route I would target getting the car to a 85-95 point concours condition. The 308 GTB would be a mean track/race car. Either one I especially would want to rebuild the engine, trans, and suspension myself. I'm less motivated for body, paint, and interior stuff. Either I'll get motivated or contract that out. The initial price doesn't bother me and I'm willing to spend what it takes over 3-5 years. Here's some Pro/Cons.. - I want a track/race Ferrari, but may be better off getting a Challenge car in a few years. I get plenty of my kicks in the RX7, I don't know if a race 308 will keep my interest for a life time. A vintage V-12 I would have forever, especially if I put the hard work into it and knew it front and backwards. - A race 308 wouldn't require the minor details of a concours car. Remember, I don't like paint and body stuff. I would gut the 308 and who cares if the paint isn't perfect. - I already have a 8, I think I need a 12 as my second one. Overall, would you say a classic 12 is easier to rebuild because of less auxiliary parts or a 8 because of more availability? |