| Author |
Message |
Jason Fraser (Jfraser)
Junior Member
Username: Jfraser
Post Number: 224
Registered: 3-2001
| | Posted on Thursday, February 20, 2003 - 4:32 pm: | |
Collin,
If I can clarify my point.....The combination of both Machine and buffer will give you the ultimate result.....It depends on your own paint evaluation....To do corrective work/totally smooth the clearcoat, you really have to use a machine (you can't physically achieve this result by hand)....Once you have the paint in a perfect condition, a lot of people like to apply a final wax by hand (myself included).....The wax coat is nothing more than a protective layer and adds shine....If you have scratches before you apply a carnuba wax, they're still going to be there after waxing. |
Mike Charness (Mcharness)
Member
Username: Mcharness
Post Number: 254
Registered: 8-2002
| | Posted on Thursday, February 20, 2003 - 4:21 pm: | |
You can. Check out www.fca-se.org/concours.htm
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Collin Hays (Chaysintexas)
New member
Username: Chaysintexas
Post Number: 50
Registered: 4-2002
| | Posted on Thursday, February 20, 2003 - 3:50 pm: | |
Does anyone else have a comment about whether or not you can achieve the same "shine" by hand as by buffer? I'm curious. |
Jason Fraser (Jfraser)
Junior Member
Username: Jfraser
Post Number: 222
Registered: 3-2001
| | Posted on Thursday, February 20, 2003 - 1:43 pm: | |
Collin,
On the basis that the body shop is first rate (read that as experts), the results you will get with a buffer, will far exceed anything that you can do by hand....If you've ever seen those show cars that look like glass, and the quality of the paint defies belief.....It was probably done with a buffer....If used properly, the buffer can thoroughly remove scratches/swirls in your paint (obviously not if the actual paint is scratched). What they are also able to do is remove the orange peel paint effect that your car may have had when it was originally sprayed at the factory....That's what will allow it to have a truly glass like appearance. Of course all of the above is dependant on the operator and the materials used, in terms of compound (if needed)/wax/buffer/buffer bonnets.
That said, if the shop aren't experts, you risk revolting shimmering swirls, paint burns, removal of clearcoat etc. What I suggest you do is give them your daily driver, and ask them to detail it....You'll know straight away if you are going to let them loose on the Ferrari.
FYI, I have never let a bodyshop buff my 360 (take a look at my profile, and you'll see the standard I like to keep the car)....That was until last week. I have a black Merc SUV, that was only 6 months old, but the paint looked 10 years old....the paint was soo badly scratched and swirled, I vowed never to buy a black car again....I had an expert detailer in LA buff it.....The results were INCREDIBLE, no scratches swirls.....It was so good, I booked the 360 in to have the same thing done....He spent half an hour telling me on a body panel by body panel basis what he was going to do to the car. |
Robert Ziino (F355bob)
New member
Username: F355bob
Post Number: 37
Registered: 8-2002
| | Posted on Thursday, February 20, 2003 - 12:43 pm: | |
There is a difference between a buffer and an orbital sander. If you color sand a car, you will need an orbital sander at high rpm to get rid of the sanding marks. It is easy to burn the paint because the wheel is spinning so fast and creating alot of heat. With a oribtal polisher like Griot's, it does not spin fast enough to burn the paint and if you press too hard it almost stops. |
BobD (Bobd)
Intermediate Member
Username: Bobd
Post Number: 1024
Registered: 3-2001
| | Posted on Thursday, February 20, 2003 - 11:11 am: | |
Mark, I'll have to try that on my Timex. |
Collin Hays (Chaysintexas)
New member
Username: Chaysintexas
Post Number: 48
Registered: 4-2002
| | Posted on Thursday, February 20, 2003 - 10:52 am: | |
JRV - I appreciate that tip! I'm going to try it! |
JRV (Jrvall)
Member
Username: Jrvall
Post Number: 985
Registered: 11-2002
| | Posted on Thursday, February 20, 2003 - 10:40 am: | |
Mark,
...yep that's the ticket.
Besides the grade or harshness of the grit...the amount of pressure used is very important, even critical to producing the desired results..
The Plastic Cleaner & Polish with the right pressure and soft clean rags will produce outstanding results without removing much paint. Of course the finish must be clean and free of dirt first. If the car is dirty or never been done before a good going over with the Clay Magic first will make the polishing step easier and faster. |
Mark (Markg)
Member
Username: Markg
Post Number: 395
Registered: 2-2001
| | Posted on Thursday, February 20, 2003 - 10:27 am: | |
JRV...are you using the Meguire's Plastic polish? Never thought of using it on paint, but it does polish the crystal on my Rolex quite well! |
JRV (Jrvall)
Member
Username: Jrvall
Post Number: 984
Registered: 11-2002
| | Posted on Thursday, February 20, 2003 - 10:24 am: | |
Any larger auto parts store..get both grades...Plastic Cleaner & Plastic Polish...it's so fine that it will polish scratches (some)out of plastic and not leave a haze behind..even clear plastic.
Sevaral soft rags and the cleaner..then the polish...a shine like you will not believe. |
Collin Hays (Chaysintexas)
New member
Username: Chaysintexas
Post Number: 47
Registered: 4-2002
| | Posted on Thursday, February 20, 2003 - 10:11 am: | |
Plastic Polish? Where do I get that? |
JRV (Jrvall)
Member
Username: Jrvall
Post Number: 982
Registered: 11-2002
| | Posted on Thursday, February 20, 2003 - 10:07 am: | |
The things that cause a buffer to hurt the paint are dirty pads and the worst enemy imo..TOO MUCH PRESSURE...if the buffing guy gets tired or lazy and rests the wieght of the buffer on the paint...bingo..problems.
The best way I've found for show quality is to hand polish with "Plastic Polish" the finer of the two grades. |
Lawrence Coppari (Lawrence)
Member
Username: Lawrence
Post Number: 516
Registered: 4-2002
| | Posted on Thursday, February 20, 2003 - 9:46 am: | |
I've used an electric buffer for years on all my vehicles. My buffer pads are terrycloth that have elastic on the edge. This slips over the foam head of my Porter Cable sander. I can apply and buff a large sedan in less than 45 minutes. Ferrari takes a lot less time because it is smaller. Just stay away from sharp edges.
Obviously, do not buff on sharp edges where there is little surface area. Do those parts by hand.
I apply the wax with a foam pad and remove it with the terrycloth "showercap" and different foam pad.
Mine is similar to what Griots sells. There is no magic to it. Let the weight of the sander do the work. Don't press on it. Keep it moving. Low speed for applying the wax, higher speed for buffing. No rocket science here. |
Peter Topman (Peter_topman)
New member
Username: Peter_topman
Post Number: 31
Registered: 8-2002
| | Posted on Thursday, February 20, 2003 - 9:23 am: | |
IMHO
only a professional "who has done Ferrari's BEFORE" should use a buffer on your paint.
Very very easy to burn through the sharp edges down to the primer.
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DJParks (Djparks)
New member
Username: Djparks
Post Number: 13
Registered: 2-2003
| | Posted on Thursday, February 20, 2003 - 9:04 am: | |
Collin, If it is a first rate body shop I would think they would know what they are doing. A power buffer in the wrong hands can spell disaster when using a cutting compound (burned paint). If all they are going to do is a straight wax, hopefully with a Carnuba base, it shouldn't be that big of a deal. This is what I have been told by local authority and could be missing some info. Enjoy the show
DJ
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mike 308 (Concorde)
Junior Member
Username: Concorde
Post Number: 113
Registered: 8-2002
| | Posted on Thursday, February 20, 2003 - 9:01 am: | |
It depends on the kind of buffer and pad. It certainly is possible to "burn" the paint, or go through to primer especially on sharp body edges.
If you check out the random orbital buffer set up at Griots Garage (www.GriotsGarage.com), you'll find the "safe" kind of setup. I have one here, and it's great. It's by Porter-Cable, but note that not all P-C random orbital sanders or buffers are the same... the model carried by your local Home Depot is probably different. |
TomD (Tifosi)
Advanced Member
Username: Tifosi
Post Number: 2801
Registered: 9-2001
| | Posted on Thursday, February 20, 2003 - 8:59 am: | |
any one who uses a machine has to know what they are doing otherwise you have reason to be nervous |
Collin Hays (Chaysintexas)
New member
Username: Chaysintexas
Post Number: 45
Registered: 4-2002
| | Posted on Thursday, February 20, 2003 - 8:58 am: | |
I am getting my 308 ready for a local car show. I want to let a first-rate body shop do the job right and polish/wax the car. They have told me they will use a buffer. I'm nervous about it. Is it that big of a deal? |