| Author |
Message |
magoo (Magoo)
Intermediate Member
Username: Magoo
Post Number: 2346
Registered: 2-2001
| | Posted on Wednesday, April 10, 2002 - 10:20 pm: | |
That may be the last area but he still may have to look there if he hasn't already. The slight drag could give him resistance starting on a steep incline. Look for the small potential problems first. |
Edward Gault (Irfgt)
Intermediate Member
Username: Irfgt
Post Number: 1014
Registered: 2-2001
| | Posted on Wednesday, April 10, 2002 - 6:46 pm: | |
I believe there may be a problem in the carb vent and carbon canister system if it is still connected. If you back out on a steep hill I believe the canister is above the carb horizon and on flat ground they are about level and downhill the canister is lower than the carbs. Try pulling off the hoses and see what happens. If your car were fuel injected a broken air inlet hose could cause such a problem as the hose will open up as the engine leans forward and the hose closes up when it leans back. I see this all the time especially on Mazdas. The car will buck and fart when trying to accelerate but will back up just fine. |
Edward Gault (Irfgt)
Intermediate Member
Username: Irfgt
Post Number: 1013
Registered: 2-2001
| | Posted on Wednesday, April 10, 2002 - 6:32 pm: | |
Are ya'll kidding? The park brake on a 308 wouldn't hold on a bet. That's the last area I would look. |
Bill Sebestyen (Bill308)
Junior Member
Username: Bill308
Post Number: 140
Registered: 5-2001
| | Posted on Wednesday, April 10, 2002 - 6:08 pm: | |
I think Greg physically removed the rear pads to test this hypothesis. |
magoo (Magoo)
Intermediate Member
Username: Magoo
Post Number: 2339
Registered: 2-2001
| | Posted on Wednesday, April 10, 2002 - 2:10 pm: | |
Greg check to see if the hand brake is adjusted to close or maybe the cable is not releasing all the way, when you back up on that steep incline it puts the chassis on a twist, or bind, and slightly applies the rear brakes. |
'75 308 GT4 (Peter)
Intermediate Member
Username: Peter
Post Number: 1776
Registered: 12-2000
| | Posted on Wednesday, April 10, 2002 - 1:36 pm: | |
Nope. |
Ken (Allyn)
Member
Username: Allyn
Post Number: 304
Registered: 10-2001
| | Posted on Wednesday, April 10, 2002 - 12:58 pm: | |
Okay, if this is a silly notion don't flame me. Do 308's have the brake adjustement when you back up and use the brakes? Could something in this system result in the brakes being applied when you back up and not releasing? |
Bob Campen (Bob308gts)
Junior Member
Username: Bob308gts
Post Number: 116
Registered: 9-2001
| | Posted on Tuesday, April 09, 2002 - 2:54 pm: | |
My mind just won't let me believe this is a carb probelm, have you checked/cleaned the strainer in the left side tank. If there is heavy junk on the floor of that tank being the feed tank, it could be cloging the feeder. Nasty job but just might be worth trying drain and flush. |
Greg Rodgers (Joechristmas)
Junior Member
Username: Joechristmas
Post Number: 204
Registered: 3-2001
| | Posted on Tuesday, April 09, 2002 - 2:21 pm: | |
I pulled the fuse and it didn't make a difference. I am not sure what to try. The only thing that comes to mind is increasing the idle jet size. Since it can get out on the mains then maybe fuel is being starved on the idle circuit due to restriction. It happens fairly quickly though as it the fuel supply was instantly cut off or as if it is binding. It seems to happen rather fast. When on the hill and slipping the clutch it will still run but when I let off of the clutch to move is when the rpms will just fall and then it will stall. Thanks Again. |
Bob Campen (Bob308gts)
Junior Member
Username: Bob308gts
Post Number: 115
Registered: 9-2001
| | Posted on Tuesday, April 09, 2002 - 2:18 pm: | |
How steep of a grade is this? I may finally be able to get my 308 out in the next few days, the weather is getting better. I am going to expirement with mine. In the mean time I will try to come up with something else. I almost would have bet on it being a brake probelm, not the first time being wrong. What is your intintial timing advance set at? |
Bob Campen (Bob308gts)
Junior Member
Username: Bob308gts
Post Number: 114
Registered: 9-2001
| | Posted on Tuesday, April 09, 2002 - 1:48 pm: | |
Another thing to try, left side fuse box fuse #2 has b/u lights on it, # 3 is the fuel pump. Try pulling #2 you will not have any instruments at this time. Just happen to have a PDF version of the owners manual on my computer at work. |
Greg Rodgers (Joechristmas)
Junior Member
Username: Joechristmas
Post Number: 203
Registered: 3-2001
| | Posted on Tuesday, April 09, 2002 - 1:47 pm: | |
Ok, here is some more info on the issue. I tried as normal to get out. The more I slip the clutch the faster it stalls. I then let the clutch out and it putted out running at 450 rpm. I then stopped it where it would normally stall and put it in neutral and gave it gas etc. It was fine no strange idling etc. I then tried it with the choke pulled. I could get a little further with the choke pulled. Then came a new idea. When I got to where it was about to stall I really reved the rpms to about 3000 and it started to get out of the driveway. Now at 3000 I am on my main jets I believe. It didn't hesitate. My clutch didn't like it but it started to get out with not trouble. So, this makes me think it could be fuel related on the idle circuit when in reverse on the steep grade. Any thoughts? I didn't see any binding with the pads and the cable disconnected. I rolled over my first black of wood. Good thing I had a back up. I also backed it in and tried in first. I could get out at a snails pace in first and slipping the clutch didn't cause any type of stall etc. I hope this helps. |
Greg Rodgers (Joechristmas)
Junior Member
Username: Joechristmas
Post Number: 202
Registered: 3-2001
| | Posted on Tuesday, April 09, 2002 - 1:07 pm: | |
Just disconnected E-brake cable and it didn't help. I am now onto the brakes. Let me know what you think. |
Greg Rodgers (Joechristmas)
Junior Member
Username: Joechristmas
Post Number: 201
Registered: 3-2001
| | Posted on Tuesday, April 09, 2002 - 12:53 pm: | |
Ok, thanks. I will go try it right now. I will let you know. Lets see what happens. Thanks Again. |
Bob Campen (Bob308gts)
Junior Member
Username: Bob308gts
Post Number: 113
Registered: 9-2001
| | Posted on Tuesday, April 09, 2002 - 12:20 pm: | |
I have very little going on at the office today, this is my mission for the day. Lets try disconnecting the Ebrake cables at the calipers, easiest thing to try first. Next could be a lot harder, we need to remove the rear brake pads, you can't touch the brake pedal so you need a helper with something to put in front of or behind ( depending which way the car is moving ) the tire to stop the car. While you are backing up have a helper eyeball from outside the car and from engine compartment to look for any unnormal movement. I hope this helping |
Greg Rodgers (Joechristmas)
Junior Member
Username: Joechristmas
Post Number: 200
Registered: 3-2001
| | Posted on Tuesday, April 09, 2002 - 11:51 am: | |
Bob, I just checked the voltage. I have 12.3V at idle and 12.0V at idle and reverse is engaged. Looks ok. How do I test your hypothesis Bob? I am tyring out different things right now so let me know. Thanks Again. |
Bob Campen (Bob308gts)
Junior Member
Username: Bob308gts
Post Number: 112
Registered: 9-2001
| | Posted on Tuesday, April 09, 2002 - 11:48 am: | |
The more I think about it, I really think rear axle torque-up is causing a bind or drag somewhere. When you back out and don't give any throttle while engaging the clutch, very little torque-up effect happens more throttle more torque. We will figure this out!!!! |
Greg Rodgers (Joechristmas)
Junior Member
Username: Joechristmas
Post Number: 199
Registered: 3-2001
| | Posted on Tuesday, April 09, 2002 - 11:16 am: | |
I agree. I can do that but the problem with my E-brake is that it isn't working. So I am not sure that is would catch. The problem seems to be in the caliper itself. When disconnected I can pull the cable and it doesn't move the rear pads at all. Even if I set them very very close to the rotor it won't hold. I am not sure if someone rebuilt them and didn't put them back right or ?. Thanks for all of the info. I appreciate the interest and help. Please let me know what you think. |
Bob Campen (Bob308gts)
Junior Member
Username: Bob308gts
Post Number: 111
Registered: 9-2001
| | Posted on Tuesday, April 09, 2002 - 11:04 am: | |
Other thought on the Ebrake, any play in the rear a-arm bushings? Could be foward movement causing tightening of the cable. Try disconnecting the cables from the calipers. I don't think a intermitant fuel pressure probelm would cause this, but NOTHING surprizes me anymore. |
Greg Rodgers (Joechristmas)
Junior Member
Username: Joechristmas
Post Number: 198
Registered: 3-2001
| | Posted on Tuesday, April 09, 2002 - 10:55 am: | |
Thanks Bob. I like the thoughts. My 308 doesn't have the fuel pump kill switch. When I had my seats removed the only wires around this area were speaker wires. I checked the brake pads/e-brake about 4 months ago. I was trying to figure out why my e-brake wasn't working. The rear pads have good clearance before the rotor and the e-brake isn't dragging. I checked the voltage at the coils and fuseblock about 4-5 months ago but will check again just to be sure. I was wondering about a pressure regulator. If I am proceeding in reverse and I have a slight loss of pressure (say down to 2.5psi) would the regulator keep it to where it is always in the 3.0 range? Just a shot not sure if it would help. Thanks Again and please keep them coming. |
Bob Campen (Bob308gts)
Junior Member
Username: Bob308gts
Post Number: 110
Registered: 9-2001
| | Posted on Tuesday, April 09, 2002 - 10:34 am: | |
Now lets look for something stupid, has the fuel pump cutoff switch in the drivers seat been bypassed? If not, when backing up are you rising off the seat alittle bit to see behind. Possibly check brake pads to make sure one is not correct and causing extra drag when backing up. On the same note check the parking brake cable for any interference. Do the backup lights work, look for a short in that circuit. I'll keep coming up with more stupid things that would only happen in reverse. |
Greg Rodgers (Joechristmas)
Junior Member
Username: Joechristmas
Post Number: 197
Registered: 3-2001
| | Posted on Tuesday, April 09, 2002 - 9:59 am: | |
I am hoping so. I have been working on this problem for sometime. It could just be the nature of the beast. When I back it in I will drive it normal to get out and it has no problem. I really don't even have to slip the clutch. Now in reverse the best way to get out is to use the choke and let the clutch out fairly quickly. If I don't use the choke than it makes it more difficult. Not using the choke: If I just rest my foot on the gas pedal and let the clutch off I can usually just barely make it out. The more gas I give it the more it will stall. The more the clutch is slipped the more it will stall. The faster I make the attempt the easier it is due to the momentum. Would the idea of the more gas I give it the quicker it wants to stall still be a fuel related issue? It doesn't seem to make a difference if the car is hot or cold. Sometimes it might be slightly easier to get out when it is hot but not much. What makes me think it isn't the nature of the beast is that sometimes I had no momentum and got out just fine in reverse but this only happened a few times over the past year. All of my forward gears run very strong. I only have this problem in reverse. Any info would be greatly appreciated. Thanks. |
Bob Campen (Bob308gts)
Junior Member
Username: Bob308gts
Post Number: 109
Registered: 9-2001
| | Posted on Tuesday, April 09, 2002 - 7:44 am: | |
This is a strange probelm and the answer will most likely be an easy one to fix. Does it happen when it is hot or cold? If so are you doing something different when backing out, as opposed to going foward? |
magoo (Magoo)
Intermediate Member
Username: Magoo
Post Number: 2308
Registered: 2-2001
| | Posted on Monday, April 08, 2002 - 10:50 pm: | |
Greg, Stupid question at this point but have you tried pulling the car out of the driveway front first? Check and see if you notice any laboring that way that you normally don't get. |
Greg Rodgers (Joechristmas)
Junior Member
Username: Joechristmas
Post Number: 196
Registered: 3-2001
| | Posted on Monday, April 08, 2002 - 11:28 am: | |
Thanks for the info Jeff. I have tried it on a full tank, half tank, and almost empty tank and it didn't make it better or worse. Could this still be an issue though. Would it be noticeable in forward gears? I have very strong forward gears and never have any hesitation. Thanks Again. |
Jeff 77 GTB (Jbk)
Junior Member
Username: Jbk
Post Number: 70
Registered: 4-2001
| | Posted on Monday, April 08, 2002 - 11:13 am: | |
Sounds to me like something in the fuel pickup in the tank. I remember reading something in Forza about a Daytona that kept stalling when the tanks were below half full. Turned out to be a crack in the fuel pickup that got uncovered and vented the pump. Reverse up a hill will elevate the pickup side of the tanks. Could be uncovering something that is usually flooded. |
Greg Rodgers (Joechristmas)
Junior Member
Username: Joechristmas
Post Number: 194
Registered: 3-2001
| | Posted on Monday, April 08, 2002 - 6:31 am: | |
All of the forward gears are fine. If I back in I can get out in first easily. It is fairly steep but I would think if I can get out in first than I should be able to get out in reverse. If I remember correctly first and reverse are close ratio wise. Thanks for the info. |
Bill Sebestyen (Bill308)
Junior Member
Username: Bill308
Post Number: 137
Registered: 5-2001
| | Posted on Sunday, April 07, 2002 - 9:41 pm: | |
Greg,
Are you having this problem going up a grade in both forward and reverse? How steep a grade are we talking about? |
Steve (Steve)
Junior Member
Username: Steve
Post Number: 137
Registered: 2-2001
| | Posted on Sunday, April 07, 2002 - 7:43 pm: | |
OK Greg I got the picture a little more clearly. I assume you changed the fuel filter and if so did you do a pressure check? I believe that you need to have a solid 3PSI on the output of the fuel pump. Needs to be constant.I also assume the Crane is working right and your advance setup is working right? I'm drying up on thoughts. |
Greg Rodgers (Joechristmas)
Junior Member
Username: Joechristmas
Post Number: 192
Registered: 3-2001
| | Posted on Sunday, April 07, 2002 - 11:19 am: | |
Thanks for all of the info. I appreciate it. I should have mentioned what I have done so far. I just set the floats a few weeks ago. I am using Crane XR700s and no points or microswitch. I also just synced the carbs about 2 months ago, as well as ignition timing, etc. The only other option that I see is a new fuel pump with pressure regulator or the main jets or possibly idle jets. I checked the voltage and I am not seeing a loss at the coils or in the fuse block when reverse is engaged. I have a feeling it is leaning out too much when I am going rear end up my fairly steep driveway. Thanks again for all of the info and let me know what you think. |
David Jones (Dave)
Junior Member
Username: Dave
Post Number: 100
Registered: 4-2001
| | Posted on Sunday, April 07, 2002 - 10:16 am: | |
Have you checked to make sure the floats are all correctly setup? |
Steve (Steve)
Junior Member
Username: Steve
Post Number: 135
Registered: 2-2001
| | Posted on Sunday, April 07, 2002 - 7:00 am: | |
Greg I'm with Magoo here. Doesn't sound like a jet problem.Also if it is a the idle set of pointss just take them out of the circuit and run on one set of points to see if that works. If it doesn't and the carbs are all in sync then you'll most likely need to re-setup all of the carbs and maybe rebuild them. So if its not the timing/advance or not the idle points it got to be in the carbs. I run a stock carb setup in my 77 and have not seen this type of problem. |
magoo (Magoo)
Intermediate Member
Username: Magoo
Post Number: 2280
Registered: 2-2001
| | Posted on Saturday, April 06, 2002 - 11:38 pm: | |
Greg, I'm like you I can't see the main jets helping out that situation. What about the adjustment on your micro switch. It may not be pulling off soon enough to give you enough advance. Just a thought. |
Greg Rodgers (Joechristmas)
Junior Member
Username: Joechristmas
Post Number: 187
Registered: 3-2001
| | Posted on Saturday, April 06, 2002 - 2:44 pm: | |
I was advised by a fellow Ferrari member that increasing the main jets may help with my reverse issue. What do you guys think about this? I thought that the mains didn't come into play until above 2500 rpm or so. Apparently, when getting out of my driveway the mixture is getting extremely lean. The only way to get out is to use the choke. When getting out the more gas I give it the more it wants to stall. If I just rest my foot on the gas and let the clutch out all of the way it will usually get out ok. Any info would be appreciated. |