| Author | Message | ||
| Warren E. Smith (Magoo)
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Thanks Craig, That's exactly what I was getting at, that voltage being the same and conditions being identical the heavy duty motor would produce more torque. | ||
| Craig Dewey (Craigfl)
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Magoo, I think Jorma's concern is that if you have a problem with voltage drop in the window lift system, putting a heavy duty motor may not solve the problem because the increased current requirement may cause even more voltage drop. Running the new "high torque" motor at 8V is no guarantee that it will put out more torque than the standard motor at the original voltage. If you could keep the voltage the same for both motors, then the "high torque" motor would be better. This is true for Mike's system since it essentially bypasses all the potential voltage dropping components with a relay. | ||
| Ben Lobenstein 90 TR (Benjet)
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OK here's some results for my 90 TR: I pulled the window switch out and ran jumpers (I had 12v coming to the switch) to lower and raise the glass. Assuming the switch was the (main) cause of the slow moving windows, I had already greased up my exposed window tracks (I haven't played with or checked out the motors - yet). We didn't do an official stopwatch test, but the concensus of the 3 people present was the speed of travel of the glasss WAS ABOUT THE SAME. If may have been just a hair faster than with the switch, but it was not enough to be noticable. So it was decided to NOT do the modification as described (WONDERFULLY - thanks Mike Tarrant!) below. While I don't doubt that it may work Mondials, it wasn't looking like the effort that it would take to put this all in (ok it's not THAT much effort) the TR would have made a siginificant difference. We didn't check the voltage at the motors we just thought it'd be quicker to give them 12v and see if they speed change was noticable. I think it's just an inherant problem with the cable/pully design that is part of the problem. Again I wish to thank Mike for all of his time and effort on this great write up, just sad to say it isn't working for my TR. If any other TR owners find differenly I'd love to hear about it. -Ben | ||
| Warren E. Smith (Magoo)
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Given the two motors are getting the same voltage, if one has heavier windings then the other, why wouldn't the heavier windings motor have more torque? | ||
| Warren E. Smith (Magoo)
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Jorma, If the windings are heavier then the orig. motor why wouldn't they have more torque than the orig. motors even at 8 volts? | ||
| Jorma Johansson (Jjfinland)
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Heavy duty motor is not heavy if it gets only 8 volts! | ||
| Herbert Edward Gault (Irfgt)
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Has anyone tried the heavy duty motors that are advertised and sold every week on EBAY? | ||
| Ben Lobenstein 90 TR (Benjet)
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Larry, I'm going to try to check out this idea in my TR in the next few days (yes before CI!). If it helps me then it will probably help you (our cars are of the same generation). -Ben | ||
| mike tarrant (Miketarrant)
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Larry, Sorry I don't run to owing a 348 as well. However I suspect that all electric window circuits will be similar. If you can, try running a feed direct from the battery to the window motor and see if this speeds them up. (Disconnect the motor from the normat wiring first). It's then a matter of finding the wiring loom and the right colours for the 348. Mike | ||
| Lawrence Michaels (Lxmichaels1)
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Hi Mike, Any idea if this applies to the 348's as well? Thx, >> Larry | ||
| '75 308 GT4 (Peter)
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Thanks for the procedure this time Mike (in addition to the image you posted the first time under "Mondials"). | ||
| mike tarrant (Miketarrant)
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| mike tarrant (Miketarrant)
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MONDIAL RELAY ASSIST WINDOW LIFTS DETAILED INSTALLATION PLAN 1 What you will need. 4 Bosch Change over relays. 20 insulated Crimp on spade terminals - female. 9 capable of terminating two wires (Blue), 11 for single wire (Red). An 8 way automotive cable plug and socket. A 4 way automotive cable plug and socket. 10 pairs of insulated bayonet type single wire connectors (2 capable of terminating two wires). 1x 6 mm crimp on earthing eye. Crimp tool for above connectors. Coloured wire : 6 amp coloured wire (preferably about 1 metre in each of the following colours) Blue Yellow Black Blue/Black stripe Yellow Black stripe White/Red stripe White/Black stripe. Plastic Cable ties. 2. Temporarily mount all four relays side by side on a piece of wood. Make the grounding wire loop using the black wire and 8 of the spade connectors. This loops terminals 85 and 87a on all relays. 3. Loop terminals 87 together on the left two relays with white/black wire and those on the right two relays with white/red wire. 4. The free ends of these three wires should be trimmed to about 20 cm and terminated in the male part of the four pin connector. With left over wire, terminate into the female part of the same connector. Trim these to about 20 cm. Strip about 1 cm of insulation from each coloured wire and crimp the earthing eye to the black wire. Bind the wire on each side of the connector with cable ties. 5. All the remaining wire is single piece. Cut 20 cm of Blue, Yellow, Blue/Black and Yellow/Black and crimp a spade terminal to one end of each and terminate the other end in the bottom row of an 2x4 (8 way) male connector. Push the spade connectors onto terminal 30 of each relay, observing the colours in the diagram. As above, use a further 20 cm of each terminated at the female connector on one end and a bayonet male joiner at the other. Use a couple of cable ties to bind the four wires on each side of the connector. 6. Repeat step 5 for terminal 86 on each relay, terminating on the top row of the 8 way male connector, but this time crimp a female jointer to 20cm of cable that terminates in the top row of the female connector. 7. You should now have a complete sub assembly, fully wired with an 8 way and 4 way male connector going to the relay pack and the matching female connectors with free wires each terminating in a bayonet jointer. The 4 and 8 way female connectors are now fitted to the car independent of the relays. 8. I found the most satisfactory position to mount this assembly was alongside the factory relay sub-assembly in the passengers footwell. Remove the carpet. (Velcro ) and the foot plate (4 set screws). Isolate the battery and remove the factory relay assembly mounting (3 set screws). Unplug the three connectors that serve this sub-assembly and remove it from the car. You can now remove your relays from the wooden temporary mounting and attach to this sub-assembly mounting plate with suitable tap screws. 9. It is now necessary to attach the two new cable assemblies (those attached to the female 4 and 8 way connectors) to the correct wires in the footwell loom. This requires extreme caution. Check and re-check that you have identified the correct wires in the factory loom. The instructions below apply only to a Mondial as that�s the only wiring diagram I have. The footwell contains three 15 way connectors mounted in a vertical row. You need to gain access to the top and bottom of the three. Unplug and pull as much free cable loom as you can. On the top connector identify the white/red wire on pin 5 and the white/black on pin 11. If you are unsure and have a volt meter or test lamp, you can test by re-enabling the battery and turning on the ignition. There should be 12 Volts on each wire. Satisfied that you have the right wires, cut each about 5 cm from the connector. On the side that goes toward the bulkhead, twist with the matching coloured wire from the new 4 way connector and crimp on a female bayonet joiner. Crimp the matching male joiner to the side that goes to the connector. Mate the jointers. Attach the earthing eye to the floor mount earth bolt which is just nearby. 10. Now identify the yellow wire on pin 7 of the same connector. Cut about 5 cm from the connector, strip and crimp on a female bayonet joined on the side that goes toward the bulkhead and a male joiner on the side that goes to the connector. Do the same with the blue wire that goes to pin 8. 11. On the bottom connector of the three factory bulkhead connectors, find the yellow/black wire on pin 7 and cut and crimp the bayonet joiners as in step 10. Do the same with the blue/black wire on pin 2. 12. This complete the wiring which can now be checked. Mate the two factory connectors, mate the bayonet jointers of the new 8way female connector looms into the matching colour bayonet jointer in the factory loom. Refit the factory relay panel, and mate the new window lift relay pack 4 and 8 way connectors to those just added to the factory loom. Re-enable the battery, turn on the ignition and try the windows. If all is well the installation can be made permanent by bolting the factory relay panel back in place, followed by the footwell cover and carpet. \image |