| Author | Message | ||
| Modified348ts (Modman)
Member Username: Modman Post Number: 542 Registered: 11-2001 |
Just happen to stumble on this topic as I am in the auto lighting business. I must say, why settle for a set up that burns hot in temperature, more stress on the wiring, and more battery consumption and most aftermarket xenon bulbs blow out too fast and inconvenient when it does happen. HID set up is better although not legal, have sold many and not a single person with a ticket for brightness but then again high wattage bulbs are not legal also. HID uses lower wattage (35 watts) cooler in heat temp., doesn't dim when other elec. parts are used., no filament burn outs on high wattage bulbs. You can also get a high & low beam HID set up which uses a solenoid that pushes back and forward. Also the wiring kits that are sold you can easily make yourself and not have too much excess wiring like universal ones and would cost you less than $10 retail to make yourselves that is better than most of the premade ones that don't use anti spike relays like the ones shown in the pics, the APC ones for $42 is for don't know how do it yourselfers and just so you know APC stands for All Pieces of Crap, I know cause I used to buy from them till I found out the quality of most of their products. But why go through all the hassles when an HID system is better, you think the xenon bulb upgrade looks good? you haven't seen the light till an HID setup is put in properly. What brand of H4 are most of you guys are using anyway? if you still just want to settle for using old fashioned filament bulbs, there is a supercharger for your H4 called a ZETA system which boosts the output of your lights at a 180% increase in output. The setup pictured with the lenses and Xenon bulbs can be purchased for $80 for the pair or if you want real HID for as little as$380 for an 8000k output or one for $650 made for dual high and low beam setup (same set up OEM in Japan). I just can't see why one would settle for ordinary filament bulbs on a nice car, I'd like to see better at night esp. if I drive fast. | ||
| Mike Procopio (Pupz308)
Member Username: Pupz308 Post Number: 269 Registered: 10-2002 |
OK, I got it all working. First of all, and I'm not sure if we ever thought this, but abandon all idea that you have easy access to a "left" or "right" headlamp circuit. Those inline fuses we installed, the two power leads, and the two relays themselves are for low beam and high beam, not for left low/high beam and right low/high beam. I was troubleshooting, and I decided to test the relays. As I cut the wire ties, and moved the wired around, all the sudden I got high beams! Great, I'm thining, there's a broken/shorted wire somewhere, or could be a problem with the relays. I played with it some more, and got it to the point where I could move just a few centimeters to cause the high beams to engage and disengage. Right now, it's all put back, and the high beams work. We'll see how it goes over the next few weeks... If I have any problems, I'll just pull the damn thing and replace it. By the way, on my car, I had to add in an extra 8 inches or so of extenders to reach the side. Getting the right slack settings so opening/closing of the pop up lights doesn't tug on the connector was a real challenge, but it's all set now. Love the setup--the lights are amazing. Highly recommended. Thanks to Dr. T and Mike Charness for all of their help. The 308 feels like a different car at night! | ||
| Mike Procopio (Pupz308)
Member Username: Pupz308 Post Number: 261 Registered: 10-2002 |
Also... I assume that the correct way to wire this was to take ONE of the two original headlamp connectors and use it as the INPUT to the APC wiring harness... The other original headlamp connector just gets taped up and stored. Then the two harness headlamp connectors get attached directly to the headlamp bulbs themselves... Right? | ||
| Mike Procopio (Pupz308)
Member Username: Pupz308 Post Number: 260 Registered: 10-2002 |
Sigh. Six hours later, I've got the kit installed. Everything took a bit longer than it was supposed to--I'll post the details later about what I had to do. The problem is, the high beams don't work. When I use the light stalk to select high beams, the headlamps stay up, but the lights just completely cut out. I definitely hear the relays clicking on and off with the high beams. I even tried swapping, at the connector, the high beam light spade connector with the low beam one, and got the high beam. The bulbs are fine, the wiring in the car is fine. I'm pretty sure the culprit has something to do with the relays in the harness. On the back of the wiring harness, it says, "When installing this sytem, some cars will turn on the other lights simultaneously with the high beam. (such as Toyota cars, Prelude, Civic, etc.). In such cases, please use together with preventing simultaneous lighting kit of system 1A (option)." Translated, I think this means: 1. Some cars, with the high beams selected, send current to both the low beam and high beam--both parts of the bulb are lit. 2. "This Is Not Acceptable." Only one part of the bulb--low beam or high beam--can be powered at once. 3. Therefore, if you've got one of these cars, you need a certain extra adapter that will prevent this simultaneous low and high beam illumination from happening. How come it worked for you guys? I should say that my headlamp buckets are VERY different from yours, apparently. (Carbed 308 vs. QV.) It wouldn't surprise me if the headlamp system had changed, as well... Your high beams work, right? | ||
| Mike Procopio (Pupz308)
Member Username: Pupz308 Post Number: 258 Registered: 10-2002 |
Mine are like those, but without any horizontal lines. By the way, does your lens/housing say anything about the bulb wattage it was designed to take? The box mine came in says 55 (and I think 60), as does the lens itself. Of course, we're running bulbs with higher wattage--is this OK, or did KyotoUSA send me the wrong thing? | ||
| Mike Charness (Mcharness)
Member Username: Mcharness Post Number: 421 Registered: 8-2002 |
The Kyoto ones I got of course have the diamond cut reflectors, but the lenses are almost smooth... they just have 5 horizontal lines that give them some minimal appearance of texture. You can see them in the photos below of a spare lens housing I have here. I also have a spare Kyoto lens housing with the blue "parking bulb", and it is identical on the outside. Notice also that the "shield" over the bulb is a round dome, not hexagonal as in the brand shown in the link in your message.  | ||
| Mike Procopio (Pupz308)
Member Username: Pupz308 Post Number: 257 Registered: 10-2002 |
Mike, Are your lenses PERFECTLY smooth and round? I've seen some that seem to be cut in a few places, like here: http://www.procarparts.com/store/displaydetails.cfm?pid=U-7INCDH100 These lenses seem to have a pattern on them... Mine are perfectly round a smooth. How did the ones you got from Kyoto look? | ||
| Mike Charness (Mcharness)
Member Username: Mcharness Post Number: 419 Registered: 8-2002 |
Mike, the lenses/housings I got from Kyoto are labeled as D.O.T. approved. H4's *used* to be illegal in the U.S. but they're now ok if used in proper housing/lens combinations that have been tested and passed as having an ok beam spread. Ron: The lenses Tommy has look more like Hellas or Carellos, not the new "diamond cut" look where the beam spread is controlled by the reflector ("diamond cut"), rather than the lens. That's what gives it the unique look. | ||
| Ron Shirley (Easy_rider)
Member Username: Easy_rider Post Number: 410 Registered: 12-2002 |
I have 2 sets of the lights from Kyoto (without bulbs). Unfortunately the 7" size does not fit a Mondial. Bulbs are also extra with Kyoto or you can pick them up at any auto parts store. I will sell them to anyone here for $35 each plus shipping. They look like the lights in Dr Tommy's pictures but as Mike points out they are probably a bit different | ||
| Mike Procopio (Pupz308)
Junior Member Username: Pupz308 Post Number: 250 Registered: 10-2002 |
One more question. What is the legality of these things? Aren't H4 lenses for "off road" use only? Is it the housings or the bulbs themselves that are the "problem"? What, then, about these Euro diamond lenses? | ||
| Mike Procopio (Pupz308)
Junior Member Username: Pupz308 Post Number: 249 Registered: 10-2002 |
Mike, I can't wait! Thanks for your help and everybody else's help here on this thread. As usual, I expect to have good success with my "Do what Charness did" method!  I ended up getting the wiring harness from www.driverfx.com, as you mentioned. autobulbdepot is redoing their site apparently, and I didn't feel like dealing with an autoparts store. driverfx.com (if I recall correctly) ALSO had a clear distinction between the 2-plug and 4-plug version of the harness, which was important. Thanks again, Mike et al! I'll post back here when I'm done. | ||
| Mike Charness (Mcharness)
Member Username: Mcharness Post Number: 418 Registered: 8-2002 |
Mike, you'll like those Kyoto xenon bulbs and diamond-cut conversion kit. Very "euro" looking. Where did you end up getting your wiring harness from? | ||
| Mike Procopio (Pupz308)
Junior Member Username: Pupz308 Post Number: 248 Registered: 10-2002 |
Well, if I goes well, I should have the xenon setup tonight! My KyotoUSA bulb kit (Generation5 Xenon white bulbs without the parking bulb, diamond-cut lenses/housings) and relayed direct-to-battery headlamp harness arrive today. Hopefully, I should be able to get it installed based on the very excellent info here. I should point out for the thread that Mike Charness's relay reference page really helpful in figuring out how these things work--thanks Mike! www.canze.org.nz/bcae/relays.htm I'll post back later on tonight... | ||
| Greg Stitt (Gregstitt5)
New member Username: Gregstitt5 Post Number: 5 Registered: 12-2002 |
I just installed the HELLAs that ItalianCarParts.com sells. Easy installation: 15 minutes. Best upgrade I've done to the carb GTS since you really need the bright lights for Autobahn driving over here. | ||
| Dr Tommy Cosgrove (Vwalfa4re)
Member Username: Vwalfa4re Post Number: 843 Registered: 5-2001 |
I never looked. I just pulled the headlights out to begin with. Tillman, No problem with the 328 as long as it has that 3-prong plug on the headlight. I can't imagine it not having it. Get the harness, get some H4 90w/130w bulbs and H4 lenses and light up the night. | ||
| Mike Charness (Mcharness)
Member Username: Mcharness Post Number: 347 Registered: 8-2002 |
Probably. If you work your way back from the original plugs that were attached to your bulbs, you'll probably find the "intermediate" plugs in the shape I was talking about. | ||
| Dr Tommy Cosgrove (Vwalfa4re)
Member Username: Vwalfa4re Post Number: 842 Registered: 5-2001 |
Does that mean you have the same connectors as mine? | ||
| Mike Charness (Mcharness)
Member Username: Mcharness Post Number: 346 Registered: 8-2002 |
OH, then you DIDN'T use the wire extensions... you had to run the new harness connectors all the way into the headlight housings and plug them directly into the back of the bulbs. OK, your setup is the same as mine after all. I had misunderstood. | ||
| Dr Tommy Cosgrove (Vwalfa4re)
Member Username: Vwalfa4re Post Number: 841 Registered: 5-2001 |
I pulled the headlights out and reached thru from the front of the light area. I do not think you can feel your way up to the back of the lights for the plug very easily. It's just 4 more screws each. | ||
| Mike Charness (Mcharness)
Member Username: Mcharness Post Number: 345 Registered: 8-2002 |
Tommy-- For clarification: Did you have to remove your headlight bulbs to complete the installation, or did you merely tap into the headlight wire extensions that were already connected to the back of your bulbs and come out the back of the headlight assembly into the grill-covered area? | ||
| Mike Charness (Mcharness)
Member Username: Mcharness Post Number: 344 Registered: 8-2002 |
Mine (#51887) was built several months later than yours (#50045) | ||
| Dr Tommy Cosgrove (Vwalfa4re)
Member Username: Vwalfa4re Post Number: 840 Registered: 5-2001 |
No, mine is a US car. I even had FNA send me papers on it. They told me the assembly was completed on 28 Jan 84, it was shipped to the US on 24 Feb 84 and FAF in Atlanta took possession in April. (more then you wanted to know, huh?) | ||
| Steve Magnusson (91tr)
Intermediate Member Username: 91tr Post Number: 1533 Registered: 1-2001 |
Dr T. -- Is your '84 308QV a Euro version? Could be that the connector/harness difference is the '84 Euro had separate lamps/lenses from the factory vs the '84 US was still required to use sealed-beam headlights -- just a thought... | ||
| Mike Charness (Mcharness)
Member Username: Mcharness Post Number: 343 Registered: 8-2002 |
Well, we've all heard stories of Ferrari folks just grabbing whatever they had handy at the time of assembly... | ||
| Dr Tommy Cosgrove (Vwalfa4re)
Member Username: Vwalfa4re Post Number: 839 Registered: 5-2001 |
Really? Both of our cars are 84 models and the chassis #'s aren't even very far apart. Mine has the "standard". I wonder why your's are different? | ||
| Mike Charness (Mcharness)
Member Username: Mcharness Post Number: 342 Registered: 8-2002 |
Well, this was NOT plug-and-play on my 1984 U.S. 308QV. My headlight intermediate wire connectors are smaller and narrower than the standard triangular 3-prong that are on the back of the headlights and are on the harness. So though I can plug it directly to the back of the bulbs (though I had hoped to use the factory extension wires & plugs), I can't hook it into the main wiring turning on and controlling and the headlights. Dang it... and I don't have any idea where to find an adapter, and I don't really want to cut into the factory wiring.  Does anyone want to take advantage of my misfortune? Or alternatively, have a source for the type of wiring adapter I need? | ||
| Tillman Strahan (Tillman)
Member Username: Tillman Post Number: 468 Registered: 11-2001 |
Does this conversion also work with the 328s? | ||
| Mike Charness (Mcharness)
Member Username: Mcharness Post Number: 341 Registered: 8-2002 |
I got mine at www.kyotousa.com as part of my conversion kit. The blue-looking ones (or sometimes purple or green) are cheaper, or "Ricer" by design. The better Xenon bulbs look more blue-white, like are found installed by the factory on newer high-end imports like Mercedes or my new 2003 Acura, though some are full blown HID systems. I much prefer the bright white color over bright Halogens as far as the light they lay down on the street. The better Xenon bulbs give at LEAST 5000K light spectrum, some 5200-5400K, and generally have 30% Xenon and 40% Krypton gas with Halogen making up most of the remainder. | ||
| Dr Tommy Cosgrove (Vwalfa4re)
Member Username: Vwalfa4re Post Number: 819 Registered: 5-2001 |
I think you may see a difference even with the Xenon bulbs and there lower amp draw. Where do you get those Xenon bulbs? Are they those "blue" looking lights I see on the road sometimes? I ordered something similar a while back for one of my Sciroccos. The H4 bulb was tinted blue. They really bothered me. I didn't think they were "bright" enough or something. I ended up replacing them with my regular halogen. | ||
| Mike Charness (Mcharness)
Member Username: Mcharness Post Number: 339 Registered: 8-2002 |
Dr. T: I've been using 100w/130w output Xenon bulbs since last August on stock wiring and haven't blown any fuses yet either. I've probably only driven the Ferrari about 4 or 5 hours total in the dark, though, since then. In any case, the Xenon bulbs are supposed to have much less amperage draw than their Halogen cousins, actually equivalent to 80w/85w draw at this output level. Still, it seems like a good and safer idea to upgrade the wiring! Paul: Because they have their own relays, the column switch merely activates the relays and sets them up to grab their actual operating power for the lights direct from the battery. Once you have it hooked up, everything functions as it always has as far as column switch positions, headlight motors, etc. Just lots more power to the lights! | ||
| Paul (Pcelenta)
Member Username: Pcelenta Post Number: 283 Registered: 7-2002 |
Dr. Tommy you said "This give you the advantage of bypassing the switch and sucking juice right from the battery. " I am a little confused...is this bypassing the column switch? How does it effect the headlight motors? | ||
| Dr Tommy Cosgrove (Vwalfa4re)
Member Username: Vwalfa4re Post Number: 817 Registered: 5-2001 |
Mike, you may want to consider the fuse relocation if you are going to run high output bulbs like me (90w/130w). That's the only reason I installed that kit. I actually already had one side wired up my old homemade way with one high output bulb. I just had not had the chance to do the other side when I stumbled on this harness kit. That's why I got so excited about it - because it was so easy. I LOVE those bright bulbs. | ||
| Mike Charness (Mcharness)
Member Username: Mcharness Post Number: 338 Registered: 8-2002 |
Steve, I *do* appreciate your concern and feedback, don't worry! I've just taken another look at the harness... the blade holder is probably no worse off than other "exposed" connections on the rear of the various plug sockets. However, if I was starting from scratch, I *would* take your suggestion and use the flip-top covered blade holders. | ||
| Steven R. Rochlin (Enjoythemusic)
Member Username: Enjoythemusic Post Number: 268 Registered: 4-2002 |
Mike, Sorry for the confusion, i do like blade fuses, it was the holder. As you are right in that it will be protected and not directly in the elements (as mine obviously are in my Honda), you are right. Again, sorry for the confusion on my part, was just trying to help my friend. Still suggest Caig Power Booster BTW. Enjoy the Drive, Steven R. Rochlin | ||
| Mike Charness (Mcharness)
Member Username: Mcharness Post Number: 337 Registered: 8-2002 |
Tommy, yes. But in the 10 years I've had the car, I've never blown any fuse other than the cigarette lighter. I don't think it's going to be a problem, but yes, that's a good thought. Steve: These aren't really "outside the car" in terms of being exposed to the elements, since they'll be in with/near the battery. In any case, I did see flip-top "covered" similar fuse holders at Radio Shack, and I can always change these out if it causes me a problem in the future. Thanks for the feedback on that. | ||
| Steven R. Rochlin (Enjoythemusic)
Member Username: Enjoythemusic Post Number: 267 Registered: 4-2002 |
Mike, Enjoy the work you did with the soldering and heat shrink, MOST EXCELLENT but... for outside the automobile use i would NEVER use open blades. They make a sealable type of blade holder Use it in my decade old Honda. See below photo. i know it looks dirty, they are 10 years old. ALSO, blade holders and fuses are not plated with a nobel metal (gold) so i would also suggest using Caig Power Blaster (www.caig.com). Just trying to help my friend. Enjoy the Drive, Steven R. Rochlin  | ||
| Dr Tommy Cosgrove (Vwalfa4re)
Member Username: Vwalfa4re Post Number: 811 Registered: 5-2001 |
Mike, About fuse placement: The only convenient way to access the + battery terminal is under the spare tire well. It is no big deal at all. You just remove the battery cover and reach thru and pull the wire to the battery. I think It is a good idea to have two fuses instead of one so if it blows, you don't lose BOTH headlights at once. Problem: If a fuse does blow, you will have to remove the spare tire and the battery cover and feel around (presumably at night) to find and replace the fuse. Since I haven't installed my fuses yet I think better place to splice them in is up higher in the harness so all you will have to do is lift the hood to replace them. Do you see what I mean? | ||
| Mike Charness (Mcharness)
Member Username: Mcharness Post Number: 336 Registered: 8-2002 |
Thanks, it was simple and just $3 to add two 30-amp inline blade-type fuse holders from AutoZone rather than search for new fused Bosch or Hella relays. These even had fuses already in them. I could have done it with just one, but I decided to have a separate fuse for each light, just as the original car wiring does. They go immediately between the battery connection and the rest of the harness. I just soldered the wires and used shrink-tubing to seal off and protect the wire connections. I'm now ready to install (as soon as I get access to my car).  | ||
| Tommy Anastasiou (Tommya)
New member Username: Tommya Post Number: 39 Registered: 10-2002 |
Mike, I'm traveling I'll look at it over the weekend. Try also HELLA. I have some by them. I'm very happy with them. Never burned a fuse or a line. | ||
| DJParks (Djparks)
Junior Member Username: Djparks Post Number: 73 Registered: 2-2003 |
Lucas, (Loo'-kaas), Prince of intermittant darkness. Taken from Websters automotive dictionary. HAHAHAHA, DJ | ||
| Mike Charness (Mcharness)
Member Username: Mcharness Post Number: 334 Registered: 8-2002 |
TommyA -- I couldn't find Bosch fused relays doing a quick net search. Do you have more details? In doing the search, I did find a good info site about how relays work, for those of us who aren't very familiar with their innards -- www.canze.org.nz/bcae/relays.htm I found another site that talks about manually setting up what this new APC wiring harness we've been talking about is already set to do, at www.sjmautotechnik.com/eurolght.html. That site says specifically, (in case you were thinking otherwise), "THE COMMON 12V AUTOMOTIVE BATTERY WILL PROVIDE ENOUGH CURRENT (HUNDREDS OF AMPS) TO CAUSE A SEVERE ELECTRICAL FIRE IF ANY UN-FUSED +12V (Positive Battery Connection) WIRE IS SHORTED TO THE VEHICLES BODY (Negative Battery Terminal)" So an inline fuse (or apparently a fused relay if available) seems absolutely necessary for safety, as I stated before. | ||
| Hans E. Hansen (4re_gt4)
Member Username: 4re_gt4 Post Number: 972 Registered: 4-2002 |
Gawd, you guys are picking on me again. And, no Matt, the lighting is not by Lucas. GT4's use candles, much more reliable than anything Lucas made. | ||
| Verell Boaen (Verell)
Member Username: Verell Post Number: 622 Registered: 5-2001 |
Charles, Tell us more about the Sylvania HID system installation & how it works in practice. I'm assuming it's their Xenarc system. I've been watching it for a couple of years now. They started at about $900 & have been coming down. | ||
| Tommy Anastasiou (Tommya)
New member Username: Tommya Post Number: 37 Registered: 10-2002 |
Tommy, No need to cut the line to add a fuse. You can get a fused relay made by BOSCH for a few $$. This will save time and more reliable. The relays come in multiple configurations & amps. If BOSCH is not available Hela is also making them. | ||
| Dr Tommy Cosgrove (Vwalfa4re)
Member Username: Vwalfa4re Post Number: 806 Registered: 5-2001 |
Hans - They have both 2 headlight and 4 headlight harness. I am actually using a 4 light harness since that was all the store had. I just tied the other plugs out of the way. Mike - I removed the little cooling vent behind the light and the metal plate around the headlight (as if you were changing the headlight)and the battery cover. That's all. You'll see that you will have plenty of room to work. I ran the power wires under the spare tire holder and joined them to the battery. The harness just drapes behind the radiator alond the "floor" of the car to each side. Does that help? | ||
| Mike Procopio (Pupz308)
Junior Member Username: Pupz308 Post Number: 172 Registered: 10-2002 |
The GT4s have headlights? | ||
| "The Don" (Mlemus)
Advanced Member Username: Mlemus Post Number: 3157 Registered: 8-2002 |
Hans, Don't the GT4's have lighting by Lucas? "off, dim, flicker"  | ||
| Hans E. Hansen (4re_gt4)
Member Username: 4re_gt4 Post Number: 967 Registered: 4-2002 |
Does anybody know what will work for us 4 headlight guys? The mentioned harness and a set of 5" replacement lamps will suffice for the high beams, but what about a harness/lamp for the dual function hi/lo of the other lamp? | ||
| Mike Charness (Mcharness)
Member Username: Mcharness Post Number: 329 Registered: 8-2002 |
Tommy: Got the harness today. Of course I don't have my car back yet to look at, but I'm wondering how difficult it was to route the wires. Other than the headlight grilles and battery cover, did you have to take out anything else or get under the car? | ||
| Mike Charness (Mcharness)
Member Username: Mcharness Post Number: 327 Registered: 8-2002 |
Since autobulbdepot.com site is not functional at the moment, if you can't get your local autoparts store to order the harness for you, you can get it at www.driverfx.com | ||
| Dr Tommy Cosgrove (Vwalfa4re)
Member Username: Vwalfa4re Post Number: 799 Registered: 5-2001 |
That picture Paul posted looks just like the one I have. It does have everything you need EXCEPT the damn fuse between the battery and the lights. | ||
| Charles I Claussen (Atlantaman)
Junior Member Username: Atlantaman Post Number: 103 Registered: 3-2002 |
I have been running 90/100 watt lights in my 308 for 18 yrs now and did try the 130/110 at one time. THE HOT BULBS ONLY LAST ABOUT 1/4 AS LONG AS NORMAL !!! BEWARE--CARRY SPARES!!! it sux to be stuck on some dark road without lights. Last month I purchased a set or TRUE HID'S from Sylvania for 500.00 and they are really awesome Sylvania now makes a sealed 7" HID system with Ballast and all. WORTH EVERY CENT!!! | ||
| Mike Charness (Mcharness)
Member Username: Mcharness Post Number: 324 Registered: 8-2002 |
Tommy: That's what I figured from the way you originally described the installation. One of the reasons for the wiring upgrade is to get away from the risk of fire with the higher wattage bulbs, and you don't want to add risk of fire back in by not having a fuse in the circuit! | ||
| michael dipple (Viking)
New member Username: Viking Post Number: 34 Registered: 8-2002 |
Hi Paul, dose the autobulbdepot you list have the bulbs,lenses and wireing as a complete set ,,or seapreat..Thankyou Mick..89 mondial | ||
| Mike Charness (Mcharness)
Member Username: Mcharness Post Number: 323 Registered: 8-2002 |
Mike: I paid about $55 including shipping for the KyotoUSA kit including the pair xenon/kypton bulbs and 6024/H4 housings. I don't know what their current price is but it's probably about the same. I can't comment on the Pro Car Parts quality from the photos or description, it's just an alternative. | ||
| Paul Sloan (Sloan83qv)
Member Username: Sloan83qv Post Number: 515 Registered: 3-2001 |
www.autobulbdepot.com Has everything you need.  | ||
| Mike Procopio (Pupz308)
Junior Member Username: Pupz308 Post Number: 169 Registered: 10-2002 |
Mike, that kit is here below, separate from ebay (and will probably end up cheaper): http://www.procarparts.com/store/displaydetails.cfm?pid=U-7INCDH100 Shipping costs seem to be approximately $14. That's about $40, plus $50 for the direct-to-battery wiring/relays setup, plus another $10 for miscellaneous supplies (fuse holder, etc.) puts you right at $100 for the whole deal. This sounds nice! First, what do we think about the kit above? Quality? It's cheaper than Kyoto's, it seems, since Kyoto charges $35 to $45 for a set of bulbs alone, let alone lenses--and that's before shipping. Mike, you ended up running with the diamond-cut, glass lenses with plastic/chrome internal bulb reflectors, right? These are the same ones in the kit above? | ||
| Dr Tommy Cosgrove (Vwalfa4re)
Member Username: Vwalfa4re Post Number: 794 Registered: 5-2001 |
I just double checked everything. There is no built in fuse on the hot wires. The package recommends a 30amp. I'll be splicing one in forthwith. | ||
| Dr Tommy Cosgrove (Vwalfa4re)
Member Username: Vwalfa4re Post Number: 792 Registered: 5-2001 |
The harness has two red wires with eyelet ends that reach perfectly to the battery terminal. The white plastic plug that goes on the back of the headlight plugs into an appropriate connector on the harness and another connector is provided for the headlight. There is no cutting or splicing so everything fused as it would be for stock wiring. The column switch only powers the relays now. You can hear a loud click when you turn the lights on and off. I suppose you can throw an extra fuse in line with the relays if you think it is necessary. When you get the kit look at it and let me know if you think an additional fuse would be a good idea. | ||
| Mike Charness (Mcharness)
Member Username: Mcharness Post Number: 322 Registered: 8-2002 |
If www.KyotoUsa.com doesn't have the headlamp H4 conversion headlight buckets in stock when you call, I did find another company on eBay that's selling something similar (same fit as '90-'97 Miata) at http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=2407556868 | ||
| Greg Rodgers (Joechristmas)
Member Username: Joechristmas Post Number: 699 Registered: 3-2001 |
Nice alternative. I would like to put this in my 78'. My QV has HIDs and I think they are great. I can see everything at night with them on. It look like natural daylight. | ||
| Mike Charness (Mcharness)
Member Username: Mcharness Post Number: 321 Registered: 8-2002 |
Tommy: More questions before my kit gets here... where did you tie in for the hot "direct to battery" wires? And if you're bypassing the fuseblock, doesn't that create its own potential problems, or is that taken care of on the switch side of things? | ||
| Dr Tommy Cosgrove (Vwalfa4re)
Member Username: Vwalfa4re Post Number: 782 Registered: 5-2001 |
I bought the only one they had on the shelf. I just have the two extra connectors pushed out of the way. No big deal. | ||
| Mike Charness (Mcharness)
Member Username: Mcharness Post Number: 315 Registered: 8-2002 |
No wheel problems, just the spoiler. Yes, Wheel-Fix-It is in Huntsville, I had them refinish my spare last year. The APC Harness kit you show is for *4* lamp according to that part number, rather than *2* lamp, which would be p/n 50-9102. Did your kit have "extra" stuff it in, or create any problem for dealing with high beams connections? | ||
| Dr Tommy Cosgrove (Vwalfa4re)
Member Username: Vwalfa4re Post Number: 781 Registered: 5-2001 |
Sorry about your car, you didn't bend a wheel did you? I just had mine restored at Wheel Fix It. They did a great job and I believe they are located up in Huntsville also. | ||
| Dr Tommy Cosgrove (Vwalfa4re)
Member Username: Vwalfa4re Post Number: 780 Registered: 5-2001 |
Mike, now that I think about it, I believe I bought it from Advanced Auto Parts. I am always mixing those two up. I am sure there is one in Huntsville. | ||
| Mike Charness (Mcharness)
Member Username: Mcharness Post Number: 314 Registered: 8-2002 |
Tommy: The local AutoZone didn't have it as a stock item, but your picture helped with brand name and part number so they've ordered it for me and it will be here tomorrow. List price is $54.95, but because you also posted your local price, they're going to match it for me. Thanks for the tip! Unfortunately my car won't be back for a few days. Believe it or not, after that great day at the track, I hit a BAD pothole with RR tracks on the way home, and cracked my front spoiler, so it's going through re-glass and repaint! I guess I shouldn't complain, it's been about 7 years since the last time. But I'll install the wiring kit this weekend. | ||
| Dr Tommy Cosgrove (Vwalfa4re)
Member Username: Vwalfa4re Post Number: 777 Registered: 5-2001 |
The wiring kit is ABSOLUTELY ESSENTIAL if you are going to plug in higher wattage bulbs. You cannot run 90W/130W bulbs thru your stock wires or you will be selling your car for parts on ebay once the fire is put out. The kit is very very simple It has heavy duty wires, 30 amp relays, and OEM style plugs. Nothing could be easier. This way your column switch only switches the relays on and off. The relays allow for the higher current from the battery to power the higher wattage bulbs. I am not kidding how great this kit is. I used to spend a afternoon with a meter and tons of wire to set this up. This just plugs in. | ||
| Steven R. Rochlin (Enjoythemusic)
Member Username: Enjoythemusic Post Number: 255 Registered: 4-2002 |
ctk, Dump the stock fuse blocks and go with normal, aftermarket glass fuse holders. These are available at NAPA and other car parts supply stores. The fuse blocks in the 308 are a horrible design IMHO and causes more trouble than they are worth. Forget staying OEM, upgrade and NEVER look back :-) Enjoy the Drive, Steven R. Rochlin | ||
| Mike Charness (Mcharness)
Member Username: Mcharness Post Number: 312 Registered: 8-2002 |
Actually, they're touted as NOT running hotter, and the Kyoto "plasma generation" conversion kit includes the integrated housing and lens. The lens is glass, and the housing is plastic, but that hasn't seemed to be any problem. | ||
| Mike Procopio (Pupz308)
Junior Member Username: Pupz308 Post Number: 167 Registered: 10-2002 |
Oh yeah, should also point out... My research seems to suggest that these Xenon/Halogen/Krypton HID imitation bulbs that Kyoto sells, like other similar bulbs, run much hotter than standard halogen bulbs--on the order of twice as much... I guess this requires special lenses? (Plasma Generation glass lenses with the metal refractors?)Do they come with the Kyoto kit? | ||
| Mike Charness (Mcharness)
Member Username: Mcharness Post Number: 311 Registered: 8-2002 |
Mike P: The Kyoto conversion kit doesn't have any wiring; I just hooked it into my stock 308/QV wiring with no problem, though I do like the idea of upgrading the wiring with the AutoZone kit. You want WHITE bulbs, not colored, if you're looking to get the best lighting to be hitting the street, as well as the closest to real HID look. When I bought my kit, they only had the "Super Plasma Xenon", so I don't have a comparison to their newer/better versions. I'm quite happy with mine, but if I were buying again, I'd get the best bulbs they offerred at the time, especially if the difference was only $10 as you stated. I did pay an extr $4 at the time to get the slightly higher wattage bulbs, and have had no problem with heat or stock wiring, as they're supposed to have less amperage draw than comparable halogen or sealed beam bulbs. | ||
| Mike Procopio (Pupz308)
Junior Member Username: Pupz308 Post Number: 166 Registered: 10-2002 |
Interesting! So, a cost-effective general formula seems to be standard (offroad ;) ) H4 lenses, with Xenon gas bulbs (HID imitation bulbs, essentially!). Also, the wiring kit. Mike, does the Kyoto kit (that Sherry can help us out with) include the relays and other stuff to run off the battery? It seemed from your post that no, you upgrading your lamps but kept the stock wiring. I'd be interested in running off of the battery, with the HID imitation / Xenon setup. Dr. T's kit from autozone seems like it would apply to H4 lenses and H4 xenon (HID imitation) bulbs from Kyoto... Does this seem correct? Mike, did you get the purple, white, or green bulbs? The Xenon "super plasma" brand or the Kyoto brand? Mike, do you know the difference between the "Super Plasma Xenon" bulbs and the Super High Performance Kyoto Bulbs? Which do you run again? The latter are $44.99, the former are $34.99. The Kyoto brand also comes in a "Generation IV" (vs. previously quoted "Generation V") for $34.99 for the set. By the way, I made a mistake before--The bulbs are $34.99 for a set of TWO, not for a single bulb, as I had originally stated. | ||
| Mike Charness (Mcharness)
Member Username: Mcharness Post Number: 310 Registered: 8-2002 |
A true HID kit will be around $700, but the simpler converion to H4 lenses and the xenon gas H4 bulbs are in the $60 range including shipping from Kyoto. Kyoto calls them "plasma generation" headlamp conversion kits. Yes, Kyoto doesn't show the full conversion kits on their website; you have to call and ask for them ("Sherry" was the person at the time who was the specialist in those kits). You don't want "purple" or "blue" -- you want bright "white" bulbs, though they'll have a slight bluish tint when they're not on. Also, Kyoto now has a version WITHOUT the separate parking bulb that's mentioned in the old thread below. They traded me out my set, and it looks great. Be sure you ask for it when you talk to Sherry, and tell her it's for a Ferrari and please mention that you read my review. Made a BIG difference in lighting hitting the street (not just the wattage, but the bright white instead of the sealed beam orange-ish lights, or even the brighter halogen bulbs). My 308's lighting now is similar in effect to my 2003 Acura! Which really helps because my night vision isn't as good as it used to be. | ||
| Dr Tommy Cosgrove (Vwalfa4re)
Member Username: Vwalfa4re Post Number: 774 Registered: 5-2001 |
NO disadvantages from running from the battery. I have had this on my other cars for over 10 years with no problems at all. Just lots and lots of light out front. I had no idea a Xenon kit was $700. There is NO WAY it will out perform my set up either, especially for the extra $600. | ||
| Mike Procopio (Pupz308)
Junior Member Username: Pupz308 Post Number: 165 Registered: 10-2002 |
Dr. T, Any disadvantages of running from the battery? I guess then the idea is the idea is that the current draw from the fusebox headlamp circuit is very little (just enough to activate the new relays)? Mike Charness had a lot of good information to say on the subject here: "Headlamp Upgrade for 308/328 (long)" http://www.ferrarichat.com/discus/messages/112/98730.html Mike references "Plasma Generation" kits on ebay, but I can't find them... One concern I have is where to find quality lenses / "beam bulbs" / headlamps. Also, on the subject on Xenon, I agree they're very, very nice... effective lighting and they look superb. But, the authentic "HID" look means a more complex conversion and some significant cash (minimum $700?)... Check out these: http://www.kyotousa.com/proxenonpurple.html They call them Xenon, but I don't really think they *are* xenon... They've got that colored lens action. I'm worried about getting a cheap bulb! Their cost: $70 for the pair. (100W/130W). They also have their own line for somewhat less. None of these lenses, I believe, are true xenon (that is, contain xenon gas inside the actual bulb, among other distinguishing factors). Rather, they all seem to be tinted halogens. Mike Charness said they also have a conversion kit, but it's not listed on their website. I assume that this kit is similar to what Dr. T has found at Autozone? | ||
| Dr Tommy Cosgrove (Vwalfa4re)
Member Username: Vwalfa4re Post Number: 772 Registered: 5-2001 |
Andreas, this kit will change your whimpy flashlights for search and rescue spotlights. I have a total of 180W just on low beam. The high beams total 260W. | ||
| Andreas Forrer (Tifosi12)
Member Username: Tifosi12 Post Number: 646 Registered: 10-2002 |
I replaced the original seal beams with a new kit from Kyoto (that also helps in case your bulb ever burns through) and replaced the regular bulbs with fake HIDs. They don't look really like HIDs, but a lot whiter and really give out a lot more light. Driving at night is still hazerdous, but instead of candles I have now whimpy flash lights. Which is why I eventually will add some Halogen fog lights. Maybe it's just that I'm a blind bat at night, but almost run into a pedestrian at night because there is so little light (that was with the original candles). | ||
| ctk (Ctk)
Junior Member Username: Ctk Post Number: 81 Registered: 7-2001 |
Xenon Lights - bright and reliable, something surely to desire! Can anyone 'shed more light' on how, when, why and do they really give trouble free performance. F-car electrics have always been tricky. Thanks for sharing. | ||
| Dr Tommy Cosgrove (Vwalfa4re)
Member Username: Vwalfa4re Post Number: 770 Registered: 5-2001 |
The biggest advantage of this setup is the fact that the lights are powered straight from the battery and not thru the switch. This ALONE makes a pretty amazing difference even with stock headlights. Whenever I wired this up in the past I used to stop after just one and check out the difference between the two lights. The easiest part is installing the harness kit itself. It just has 2 grounds and 2 hot wires. You plug the factory plug into it and plug the harness into the light. This give you the advantage of bypassing the switch and sucking juice right from the battery. It will perk up the stock 55/60 and even those xenon lights. Easy, easy, easy. | ||
| Steven R. Rochlin (Enjoythemusic)
Member Username: Enjoythemusic Post Number: 252 Registered: 4-2002 |
Hi Everyone, Feel bad as the previous owner and Fchat member, Jeff Edison, installed Xenon lights in the 1985 308GTS Qv here. Wish i could go into details about installing. Maybe instead of going stock, upgrade to Xenon? The headlights are very good in the 308 now and NO problems. Of course other bits need to be uprated for Xenon. Enjoy the Drive, Steven R. Rochlin | ||
| Dr Tommy Cosgrove (Vwalfa4re)
Member Username: Vwalfa4re Post Number: 768 Registered: 5-2001 |
I have had the lenses for several years. They are standard 7 inch. Same size as my Alfa. I think I bought these from Automotive Performance Systems. They supply aftermarket VW products. They actually sell a high end lens that is perfectly clear but it is nearly $200 each. I am planning on getting two of those for the high beam on my 80 Scirocco. It has a four headlight setup. | ||
| Chris F. (Chrisfromri)
New member Username: Chrisfromri Post Number: 10 Registered: 1-2003 |
My '84 308 QV (US) headlights are perfectly bright with the stock wiring -- after compressing the push on female connectors in the pigtail connections that reside about 12 inches from the connector that actually pushes onto the sealed headlight bulb (I use Wagner Xenons). These pigtail connections are under a black rubber boot and seem as if they loosened over time. BTW, the cost to rejuvinate the pigtail connections is nil, and it made my lights bright... Kind Regards, Chris | ||
| Mike Procopio (Pupz308)
Junior Member Username: Pupz308 Post Number: 164 Registered: 10-2002 |
Cool! This has been in the back of my mind for quite some time. One thing I'm not sure of--I guess factory stock lighting is considered, by today's standards, to be inadequate? Where did you get the H4 lenses from? How do these lamps compare to Xenon headlamps? | ||
| Dr Tommy Cosgrove (Vwalfa4re)
Member Username: Vwalfa4re Post Number: 765 Registered: 5-2001 |
Sorry for the bad pictures.     | ||
| Dr Tommy Cosgrove (Vwalfa4re)
Member Username: Vwalfa4re Post Number: 764 Registered: 5-2001 |
For years I have been rigging up heavy duty relays and running wire to hook up high output H4's on my cars. Now you can head down to Auto Zone (or whatever you have in your state) and pick up a very clean and easy wiring harness kit. Saved me about 2 hours from my old fashioned way of doing it from scratch. ANYBODY can do this in your driveway in less then an hour. The most time is dealing with about two dozen screws around the headlights. Hooking up the harness takes 5 minutes if your slow! I have 90w/130w bulbs now that run directly off the battery instead of the lousy 55w/60w sealed beam lamps that run thru our switch. HUGE HUGE HUGE difference. I have had this set up on my Sciroccos and Alfa for over 10 years. Aim your lights properly and it's never a problem. I guarantee this will be the best $100 you ever spend on your car. The harness is about $42, you also need the H4 lenses and whatever H4 bulb you want. Total is around $100.     |