| Author |
Message |
Paul Sloan (Sloan83qv)
Member
Username: Sloan83qv
Post Number: 519
Registered: 3-2001
| | Posted on Monday, March 24, 2003 - 9:23 am: | |
Below is a copy of a post from some time ago, I saved it as this type of service is rather rare..hope it helps.
Paul
"My name is Larry Fletcher, I am a rebuilder of Bosch Fuel Distributors. you can contact me at 225-273-0331 home/office or email [email protected] the problem you will have if you try to fix your FD is that you can't get the parts, I had to have them made. Also you have no way to calabrate the FD to make sure it will work. I do this all day every day and it is not something you will learn quickly even if you had the custom equipment needed." |
JRV (Jrvall)
Intermediate Member
Username: Jrvall
Post Number: 1167
Registered: 11-2002
| | Posted on Monday, March 24, 2003 - 9:14 am: | |
Dr. I,
to get a BBi running right both banks must run the same speed & mixture.
It is not a fast turn a screw type tweek, really...believe me I've wished it was a 1000 times.
it requires a few tools and Engine Hard Data, you can get the Hard Data the easiest with a Gas Analyzer and 2 Manifold Vacum Gauges (plumbed in).
Is there a crossover line between the Aux. FP Regulators? Fuel Pressure the same Side to Side is Very Important (which is why the factory used the crossover line), then Equal Vacum Settings Mandatory and Equal Mixture Settings Mandatory as well as accurate and correct Ign. Timing.
As long as even 1 of the 12 cylinders is messing up it can affect other cylinders and equate to poor running.
Here is a link to the BBi setting procedure again: http://www.bulletinboards.com/view.cfm?comcode=Ferrari&x=x
Scroll down to the relivant thread.
This covers about every step accept checking the Fuel System Pressure side to side.
If you have specific questions not already addressed em me privately and I can walk you though the total check & adjust procedures.
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Doug meredith (Dougm)
Junior Member
Username: Dougm
Post Number: 240
Registered: 2-2001
| | Posted on Sunday, March 23, 2003 - 8:57 pm: | |
When I had a 308QV, it did not pass local emissions. I searched the web for Bosch rebuilders and found one in CA. Cant remember the name. I sent them the distributor and the injectors. They hooked them up and flushed them out for a few hundred $. My mechanic re-installed and everything worked again. Just search Google under Bosch rebuilding? and call around. |
Dr. I. M. Ibrahim (Coachi)
Junior Member
Username: Coachi
Post Number: 235
Registered: 5-2002
| | Posted on Sunday, March 23, 2003 - 12:25 pm: | |
Ken, that tar like substance is right on the nose. I have seen it on the fuel pump I had to replace... I probably should have replaced both FD, both fuel pumps, and all the injectors and lines, not to mention accumulators etc... but then, I would have been able to buy a new Boxer at the prices they are being sold these days. A few weeks ago, a low mileage good looking red Boxer was being offered by its owner in Florida for 50,000. It was fuel injected and in fine condition according to him. It needed the completion of the installation of the dash and the door panels. I drove the car again today...and it continues to perform better and better. When I finished the drive and let the car idle for a while, it did backfire once...I figure it is still some of those particles dislodged from the gummed up lines etc... I also had to replace the fuel level sensing unit in the gas tank...it was rusted and the wires on it were shot...Believe me, I added those fuel stabilizers too...religiously....nothing beats driving those cars, and I am doing it. Thanks.
Frank, I too have had a suspicion that my speedometer was fibbing...even in kilometers/hour as is the case with all Boxers since none were imported into the US by the factory. I didn't know their tachometers fibbed too. I guess it is easy to find out. By the way, does anyone know a source for rebuilding bad ammeters? Thankd for all the help and suggestions. |
Frank Parker (Parkerfe)
Intermediate Member
Username: Parkerfe
Post Number: 2028
Registered: 9-2001
| | Posted on Sunday, March 23, 2003 - 7:05 am: | |
Coachi, the tach on my BBi also shows idle to be around 1200rpm. But, when hooked up to a shop tach it shows about 1000rpm. It seems that both Ferrari speedometers and tachs are optimistic. |
Ken Ross (Kdross)
Member
Username: Kdross
Post Number: 286
Registered: 2-2002
| | Posted on Saturday, March 22, 2003 - 7:40 pm: | |
My 308QV sat for almost 13 years in a garage unused. The gas turned into a solid tar like substance. No amount of cleaner or tarnish remover would have cleaned out the system. The only solution was to replace the entire fuel system. My fuel distributor, fuel lines, injectors, gas tank, etc all were replaced. It was not cheap either. The fuel distributor alone is about $3K from Ferrari (made by Bosch so call a good Bosch dealer). Sounds as if you will have to replace the entire system as I did. I now put a good fuel stabilizer into the gas tank when I will not be using the car for more than a month. Good luck. |
Dr. I. M. Ibrahim (Coachi)
Junior Member
Username: Coachi
Post Number: 232
Registered: 5-2002
| | Posted on Saturday, March 22, 2003 - 5:16 pm: | |
I just thought of something. Is it significant that I can't even turn the idle down by shutting the idle screws down to lower than 1200 or so RPM? Strange, but my idle is in the 1200 to 1500 RPM range...and when i try to tone it down, it kills the engine. It sounds to me that somewhere somehow the engine on at least one bank is getting a rich mixture ... |
Dr. I. M. Ibrahim (Coachi)
Junior Member
Username: Coachi
Post Number: 231
Registered: 5-2002
| | Posted on Saturday, March 22, 2003 - 5:08 pm: | |
Henryk, my Ferrari mechanic (ex) doesn't even return phone calls, and I even wrote him a registered letter he did not respond to. Except for Ed Gault, may God bless him, and he no longer works on Ferraris, to date, my best mechanics have been Porsche mechanics...they charge reasonable rates and go great work.. the only trouble is my closest most reliable Porsche mechanic is a friend in Tampa Florida, at least $ 2000 away on a flatbed. I really think the problem is almost solved. Larry Fletcher from La. rebuilt my FD, and along with a new fuel pump...the car runs..just not like it used to. As for the hotter plugs...a fuel injected car should not need hotter plugs...i used the colder ones from the eightees to 2002 with no problems. I was just lazy and didn't exercise my car enough, the gas in the tank got dirty and gooey, and it gummed up my FDs and fuel lines... in time, if I use enough cleaners in my fuel, these lines might get cleared up... I wish I could find a mechanic in my area who is intelligent (like Ed Gault is) who can figure this out. As for the adjustments Steve suggested...I will work on that. Thanks for anyone who has posted...I appreciate the help...keep the suggestions coming...the problem is not the plugs...but I did go the "7" rated NGK plugs and the car runs much better...thanks |
Frank Parker (Parkerfe)
Intermediate Member
Username: Parkerfe
Post Number: 2019
Registered: 9-2001
| | Posted on Saturday, March 22, 2003 - 4:49 pm: | |
I too have read that Ferrari used colder plugs in its older cars than are appropriate in the USA. In Europe the cars are driven a lot faster and harder and need the colder plugs. Whereas in the USA most Ferraris are babied and could use a bit hotter plug. |
John_Miles (John_miles)
New member
Username: John_miles
Post Number: 47
Registered: 7-2001
| | Posted on Saturday, March 22, 2003 - 3:07 pm: | |
Running hotter plugs on these older cars is not a bad idea. If you don't hear pinging, you aren't hurting anything with NGK 5-series plugs. I'd leave 'em in. |
Steve Magnusson (91tr)
Intermediate Member
Username: 91tr
Post Number: 1538
Registered: 1-2001
| | Posted on Saturday, March 22, 2003 - 12:07 pm: | |
Coach -- If you're lucky it could just be a simple mixture adjustment (turning the mixture screw sets/controls the position of the control plunger in the FD vs the airflow sensor plate position in the air funnel). The unknown is the mechanical position of the control plunger after rebuild -- if it's not correctly set-up inside the FD then the limited range of the mixture adjustment can't achieve the appropriate relationship (one of the TR guys had a lot of trouble with this after an FD rebuild). However, since your BB512 is quasi-sort-of-running I see no harm in putting an eyeball on the airflow sensor plates to confirm they're behaving about the same (i.e., their relative positions in their respective air funnels vs RPM at off, idle, ~3000 RPM is similar. You might also give the airflow sensor plates the usual non-running static feel over their motion ranges just to confirm they're both moving smoothly with similar resistances). If that all looks OKish you could have a go at the mixture screw (forgive me JRV) -- just note where it is (the angle of the wrench) before you start so you can return there if necessary. IIRC this is not a several turns type adjustment -- i.e., backing (leaning) the mixture screw out CCW like ~1/2 turn kills a bank at idle.
BUT -- it's K-Jetronic! If you want to DIY this, IMO you've got to confirm that the fuel supply pressure and the warm/cold control fuel pressures from the warm-up regulator are OKish first before tweaking the mechanical bits. Do an internet search on "K-Jetronic Bosch", and you'll get a lot of good sites describing the K-Jetronic operation/components -- like mixture screw location/adjustment (sometimes the airflow units are updraft rather than downdraft, but the operation principle is identical). |
Henryk (Henryk)
Member
Username: Henryk
Post Number: 583
Registered: 8-2001
| | Posted on Saturday, March 22, 2003 - 11:26 am: | |
Doesn't your mechanic stand by his work? |
Henryk (Henryk)
Member
Username: Henryk
Post Number: 582
Registered: 8-2001
| | Posted on Saturday, March 22, 2003 - 11:25 am: | |
I would question the quality of rebuild of the FD. There is a fuel mixture screw, but it sets the FD only for idle, I believe.
I have read that rebuilding the FD is VERY difficult, due to the EXTREME close tolerances necessary, and more often, then not, they need to be replaced as a unit.
Good luck! |
Dr. I. M. Ibrahim (Coachi)
Junior Member
Username: Coachi
Post Number: 230
Registered: 5-2002
| | Posted on Saturday, March 22, 2003 - 9:36 am: | |
I have posted before concerning the problems of my garage queen boxer. After rebuilding one of FD and replacing a fuel pump, and lots of other things (shocks, clutch, etc... only 8870 km true miles on the car.. goes to show you must drive them)I had a lot of trouble with the two banks not firing smoothly... so bad that the car would surge and retreat...uneven engine turns... it also backfired at times... quite embarrassing for such a nice car. JRV suggested I check the plugs...the highly expensive mechanic in Atltanta that had worked on my car had replaced my plugs with very hot "5" rated NGK plugs instead of the standard "8" colder plugs. I quickly took those out and lo and behold, the bank where the fuel distributor was not rebuilt had perfect plugs, white ash no carbon deposits, while the rebuilt FD side was running rich, with black carbon deposits on the plugs (not a lot, but definitely different from the other bank). It is obvious that the mixture coming into that rebuilt FD bank is too rich. How does one go about leaning it out? I have been running the car every day now and it is running better than before with the colder plugs...but still not perfect. Any suggestions? |