| Author |
Message |
Jeff Green (Carguy)
Junior Member
Username: Carguy
Post Number: 212
Registered: 10-2002
| | Posted on Monday, March 31, 2003 - 5:36 pm: | |
Well put Frank, hard to argue when you word it like that. And I believe the Enzo is single-lug too. It finally boils down to one's perception and preference. William...I would love to see what those covnversion hubs look like. It is conveivable that you could simply bolt on the spline-adaptor to the hub, and put studs through 5 of the holes, and then use a "normal" 5-lug wheel. I have considered this...but the wheel would have to have a snug fit on the splined hub, and also clearance for the large lug bolt. The lug bolt would take the place of the normal center cap. In theory this would work, but there is one problem. As I mentioned earlier, the amount of offset (..or backspacing) is quite extreme on single-lug wheels and very hard to get on aftermarket wheels. I'm sure there are some out there that would work, but machining would be necessary. Who wants to buy new wheels and then carve them up - and hope that they work? I'm currently keeping my eyes open for a junk wheel to hack up, just to satisfy my curiosity. Lastly, I believe the only way to truly convert over to 5-lug is to change suspension pieces. I do know where a 5-lug TR suspension set-up is, but the price is scary. Unless I stumble onto them or develop an easy way to convert...I'm gonna make do with what I have. |
Frank Parker (Parkerfe)
Intermediate Member
Username: Parkerfe
Post Number: 2062
Registered: 9-2001
| | Posted on Monday, March 31, 2003 - 3:07 pm: | |
Brad, I think the single nut hub is desirable because it keeps the car stock for concours reasons and it just looks better IMHO. The single nut hub has the exotic look that is Ferrari. A Chevy has five lug nuts, but only the rare exotic car has a single nut hub like an F1 car. |
william speer (Wspeer)
Junior Member
Username: Wspeer
Post Number: 179
Registered: 8-2002
| | Posted on Monday, March 31, 2003 - 1:33 pm: | |
i don't know if they were a factory available item, but over the past several years, i have seen conversion hubs on ebay. they simply slide over the single hub and have a five lug bolt pattern that matches the current ferrari bolt pattern. |
Brad Smith (Smithbb)
New member
Username: Smithbb
Post Number: 8
Registered: 1-2003
| | Posted on Monday, March 31, 2003 - 11:50 am: | |
Just happened on this thread which is a topic of coming interest for me. I'm very curious why a single lug wheel is considered desirable (other than a pure racing environment)? I've been trying to convert my '86 single lugs to 5 lug. Many, many many more wheel and tire options but the cost of conversion is salty. Frankly I can't see any real benefit to single lug and there certainly is no redundancy or factor of safety like 5 lug. (although with counter threaded attachment, its unlikely they would ever come loose) Let me know your thoughts. Always ready to learn.
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Jeff Green (Carguy)
Junior Member
Username: Carguy
Post Number: 207
Registered: 10-2002
| | Posted on Sunday, March 23, 2003 - 9:25 pm: | |
Hi Jeff...it may not, as the spline hub is bolted to the single-lug type wheels with nut, bolts, and a retainer ring. I would imagine that these items would way at least as much, if not more, than just studs and lug nuts. The spline adaptor itself is quite heavy. And then there's the weight of the single-lug bolt itself...very heavy. Just guessing but I'd say 5-lug wheel set-ups weigh less. You bring up a very interesting point....I hadn't thought about this aspect of it. Hmmmmmmmm |
jeff ryerson (Atheyg)
Junior Member
Username: Atheyg
Post Number: 195
Registered: 8-2002
| | Posted on Sunday, March 23, 2003 - 9:16 pm: | |
One thing adding a spline hub adapter along with the wheel lug studs/bolts will add considerable unsprung weight and probably effect your handling
Ferrari used a single lug for a reason probably saved some unsprung weight over 5 lug wheels , they probably went to the 5 lug out of neccessity due to owner/mechanic issues/mistakes in installation and wheels coming off |
Jeff Green (Carguy)
Junior Member
Username: Carguy
Post Number: 206
Registered: 10-2002
| | Posted on Sunday, March 23, 2003 - 8:10 pm: | |
Steve...I do have that issue and will check it out. And James, you are absolutely correct. Any mods done incorrectly to wheels can be a disaster. I couldn't agree more. About going with 5-spoke type wheels...not looking too good at the moment. The single-lug TR wheels have a lot of positive offset, and wheels styled like I want do not have enough offset. This would result in the wheels sticking outward more than stock which is totally unacceptable. So it's looking like this idea of mine will remain just a theory for some time. |
James Selevan (Jselevan)
Member
Username: Jselevan
Post Number: 459
Registered: 6-2002
| | Posted on Sunday, March 23, 2003 - 3:48 pm: | |
Jeff - I admire your enthusiasm, and your engineering / tooling skills. However, Frank Parker's opinion aside (which I endorse), wheels are funny things. Do it wrong, and you will likely find out at speed. There is not a great deal of room for redundancy or error. There are few other components on a car that, upon failure, will kill someone. Wheels will. Best-case scenario is that the failure kills you. Worst case is that it kills someone else. I wonder with amusement and fear about the aftermarket wheel manufacturers who likely do not test adequately, often try to reduce cost by choosing materials that cost less, and may not understand the mechanical forces that the wheel must assume.
From your posts it appears that you know what you are doing. It seems like a great deal of work, and must be a labor of love. Just be careful.
Jim S. |
Steve Magnusson (91tr)
Intermediate Member
Username: 91tr
Post Number: 1542
Registered: 1-2001
| | Posted on Sunday, March 23, 2003 - 2:08 pm: | |
Jeff G. -- Do you have access to the 512TR suspension/wheel cross-section drawings in GB progetti N. 10 Jan/Feb '92? If you've got the TR single-lug drawings you could overlay the two and see what the challenges will be. Shoot me an email if you want them... |
Patrick S. Perry (Psp1)
Junior Member
Username: Psp1
Post Number: 130
Registered: 3-2001
| | Posted on Sunday, March 23, 2003 - 12:53 pm: | |
Frank-
What size rims does your Boxer have?
One of the problems with my wheels (16",single lug) is that performance tires are becoming increasingly difficult to find. Like I've discussed in other threads, I'm not looking to permanently modify the car so much as keeping it functional - and it's just nice to have options. |
Jeff Green (Carguy)
Junior Member
Username: Carguy
Post Number: 204
Registered: 10-2002
| | Posted on Sunday, March 23, 2003 - 9:38 am: | |
Hi Frank, I agree that single-lugs are a very clean method of getting the job done, and also very racecar-like. But I also like the 5-spoke wheels like on the 512TR and 355. If they made these wheels in singl-lug I'd buy a set in a hearbeat. But they don't so I have to explore an alternative route. |
Frank Parker (Parkerfe)
Intermediate Member
Username: Parkerfe
Post Number: 2029
Registered: 9-2001
| | Posted on Sunday, March 23, 2003 - 7:07 am: | |
I love the single nut wheels and would not convert them to five nut wheels. EVER> |
Jeff Green (Carguy)
Junior Member
Username: Carguy
Post Number: 200
Registered: 10-2002
| | Posted on Saturday, March 22, 2003 - 6:01 pm: | |
Just to add another piece to this puzzle. If time permits I will bolt the spline adaptor and center bolt onto my car and take some measurements. This should tell me what the offset and hub thickness is as installed on the car. I assume this thread will die a slow death. But just think if something develops from this stuff that can save big bucks for us TR owners. |
Jeff Green (Carguy)
Junior Member
Username: Carguy
Post Number: 199
Registered: 10-2002
| | Posted on Saturday, March 22, 2003 - 5:54 pm: | |
Thank You Frank for the website link. But I've discussed wheel options with three companies including them, and the prices are simply not in my budget. I can't justify spending $950 and more for each wheel. I'm one of those guys who can buy a Ferrari but cannot afford a Ferrari. So through some creativity I'm trying to achieve my goals...and it may or may not pay off in the end. But I must try. |
Frank Parker (Parkerfe)
Intermediate Member
Username: Parkerfe
Post Number: 2024
Registered: 9-2001
| | Posted on Saturday, March 22, 2003 - 5:40 pm: | |
Try www.GaRedCars.com |
Jeff Green (Carguy)
Junior Member
Username: Carguy
Post Number: 198
Registered: 10-2002
| | Posted on Saturday, March 22, 2003 - 4:50 pm: | |
Here is yet another installment of my ongoing saga into the world of TR single-lug wheels. Some may recall I've done some research into the dimensions and shapes required to make "standard" type wheels a candidate for converting to single-lug type. A fellow f-chat member (Patrick Perry) asked about making new hubs, or modifying the current ones to allow 5-lug wheels to bolt up. This project had kinda died off...till I got to staring at single lug bolts...and thinking maybe it's possible. I have been thinking that the wheel shape would need a flat face 150mm in dia. to allow the trim ring to work. But what about this: Use a 5-lug wheel that matches the current spline hub ring pattern (practically a Chevy pattern) and stud the spline hub. Then machine the center hole of the wheel to snug-fit the spline hub. Now machine the wheel center on the face to allow the center lug bolt to fit. And don't worry about the trim ring as it is not needed. The center bolt would now be like the normal "center cap" was except it's actually holding the wheel on the car. I'm not sure about how deep the wheel face would have to be or anything. But I think this idea has merit, and it's not very complicated. I encourage anyone out there to chime in with your thoughts, as I believe this will work. What do you guys and gals think? |