| Author |
Message |
JohnR. (Rivee)
Junior Member
Username: Rivee
Post Number: 172
Registered: 1-2002
| | Posted on Thursday, March 27, 2003 - 8:43 am: | |
Steve, yes. TRutlands wanted 9K for the long block |
Steve Magnusson (91tr)
Intermediate Member
Username: 91tr
Post Number: 1554
Registered: 1-2001
| | Posted on Wednesday, March 26, 2003 - 8:31 am: | |
JohnR. -- why only a short block and not a long block? -- are you considering doing the heads elsewhere? |
JohnR. (Rivee)
Junior Member
Username: Rivee
Post Number: 171
Registered: 1-2002
| | Posted on Wednesday, March 26, 2003 - 3:46 am: | |
Jeffery, you are absolutely right. I just ordered a short block from Ted R. and he said that Rick rebuilt the one he's sending me. Supposed to be one of the best fcar mechanics around. |
Sean F (Agracer)
New member
Username: Agracer
Post Number: 44
Registered: 2-2003
| | Posted on Tuesday, March 25, 2003 - 9:45 pm: | |
The last issue of Forza had a 308 rebuild article from on of the guys at Norwood in Dallas. He had several recomendations in regards to upgrading pistons and such at costs less than Ferrari parts (for 79 and earlier 308's that is). Plus, you can get more power by buying higher compression pistons, and if you can afford it, different lift/duration cams.
For $10k, you should be able to do all that stuff, have some better parts and 30-40 more BHP. |
Jeffrey Davison (Jeffdavison)
Junior Member
Username: Jeffdavison
Post Number: 70
Registered: 7-2002
| | Posted on Tuesday, March 25, 2003 - 6:28 pm: | |
His name is Rick Charles and lives in Lawrenceville.
I can't give him a higher recomendation for the quality of work.
Jeff |
Dr Tommy Cosgrove (Vwalfa4re)
Member
Username: Vwalfa4re
Post Number: 887
Registered: 5-2001
| | Posted on Tuesday, March 25, 2003 - 10:21 am: | |
Jeffery - I bought my 308 from John Apen. I also had a friend of his who used to work at FAF for years do the first big service. I wonder if it is the same guy. Does he now work real close to the old dealership in Tucker? |
Jeffrey Davison (Jeffdavison)
Junior Member
Username: Jeffdavison
Post Number: 69
Registered: 7-2002
| | Posted on Tuesday, March 25, 2003 - 10:07 am: | |
I personally know the person who rebuilds the blocks for T Rutlands. He is a degreed engineer who has mucho mucho Ferrari experience. He has years and year experience working for the old FAF of Atlanta and is personal friends with John Apen (speling?).He is also my machinist for cutom parts that I design for my rally car. He is top notch and very meticulous. I highly recomend this guy. He built some turbocharged and supercharged& turbo'ed 8's and 12's. THIS GUY KNOWS 308's.
HIGHLY RECOMMENDED!!!!
Jeff Davison |
Dr Tommy Cosgrove (Vwalfa4re)
Member
Username: Vwalfa4re
Post Number: 884
Registered: 5-2001
| | Posted on Tuesday, March 25, 2003 - 7:11 am: | |
Did they tell you who rebuilt them? |
JohnR. (Rivee)
Junior Member
Username: Rivee
Post Number: 170
Registered: 1-2002
| | Posted on Tuesday, March 25, 2003 - 2:22 am: | |
Thanks all for your input. Just found out that T Rutlands sells rebuilt short blocks for around 6K. Does anyone know if these are any good?
It would sure save a lot of hassle just throwing in a rebuilt motor.
Plus I don't know if I am qualified, or have the time to rebuild a short block. |
Ben Millermon (Brainsboy)
Junior Member
Username: Brainsboy
Post Number: 155
Registered: 5-2001
| | Posted on Monday, March 24, 2003 - 9:36 pm: | |
I found ss valves at 21$ each
Valve seals complete 16 with shipping cost 25$
Valve guilds 80$ for all 16
Pistons 621$ any compression ratio any oversize
Chrome moly Rings 120.00
The deals are out there just takes a long time to find them and know which companys have good products.
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Tim Worley (Tworley)
New member
Username: Tworley
Post Number: 5
Registered: 3-2003
| | Posted on Monday, March 24, 2003 - 7:28 pm: | |
Rivee, I'm just finishing up a 308 2V total rebuild. I live in San Jose so I know all the local shops. Send me an email if you need some help. |
JRV (Jrvall)
Intermediate Member
Username: Jrvall
Post Number: 1171
Registered: 11-2002
| | Posted on Monday, March 24, 2003 - 4:57 pm: | |
>>1. Pistons & liners <<-- Bore Liners--New Pistons/Rings/Pins, 1st over Borgo's or any size you want from any of a number of piston makers.
>>2. all main and rod bearings<< -- definately all bearings, rod bolts also unless you're building a parade motor, plus the small cam drive gear bearings (4)
>>3. all valves, guides, seals, and springs<< -- Ex. Valves definately (stainless), & only Intakes that have stem wear or bent or other wear issues, all guides definately, springs no...unless you know for sure they've been overheated, just have them checked for pressure
>>4. have the block line bored<<. --- basically it's a "line check"...and if some type of problem detected "line honed"...only in some very extreme case would it need a true line bore.
PLUS:
5. Heads Decked Definately...just goes with the standard valve job from any quality, reputable machine shop. (intake manifolds @ head mating surface checked for flatness & corrosion & machined true in necc.)
6. Wrist Pin Bushings Checked & replaced if neccesary
that's about it on a typical engine.
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Ric Rainbolt (Ricrain)
Member
Username: Ricrain
Post Number: 509
Registered: 2-2002
| | Posted on Monday, March 24, 2003 - 4:27 pm: | |
I'm just completing a 2V 308 motor that has aftermarket FI, direct igntion, 10.4:1 pistons and other cool mods, and I have "only" $10K in this motor. $10K for an "at home" stock rebuild sounds nuts, considering there are a number of useable pulled units floating around for $3-5K. I saw a brand new 328 motor (OEM crate motor) go for $12K.
If the liners are worn, you could bored them and use slightly larger pistons. If you replace the liners, it's doubtful you'll need new pistons. Aftermarket valves are $20-40/ea ($640 total if all are needed), aftermarket valve guides are $7-10 ($160 max). Main and rod bearings are $500-$700 for a set (OEM). Aftermarket (forged) pistons with pins and rings are about $1700 for the set. Liner honing runs $25-$50 per bore (iron liners; Aluminum liners are more), that's $400.
That's less that $4000 for hard parts and another $1000 for a gasket set. Add $2000 in machine shop labor, and you should be able to get there for less than $7K. And that's if just about EVERYTHING needs to be replaced.
In 4 different 2-valve rebuilds, I've only found one that needed to be line bored, and that cost only $300-ish.
By the way, if you need some 2-valve pistons, e-mail me and you can have 8 of mine (I have 20+ that are all within spec laying around).
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Ben Millermon (Brainsboy)
Junior Member
Username: Brainsboy
Post Number: 153
Registered: 5-2001
| | Posted on Monday, March 24, 2003 - 8:11 am: | |
I dont know why you would need to replace the liners, when you can bore them. I am doing my rebuild right now also, and come to find out my liners had very little wear. If you want give me an e-mail I found some killer pricing on parts, I would be more then happy to share my sources with you. But I wouldnt start replacing things without looking at the motor first. |
JohnR. (Rivee)
Junior Member
Username: Rivee
Post Number: 169
Registered: 1-2002
| | Posted on Monday, March 24, 2003 - 1:30 am: | |
Well I pulled the motor out of my 308 last week to finally do an inspection and rebuild.
A couple of questions I have, hopefully someone can answer.
My Fcar mech. told me that I need to replace all of the following:
1. Pistons & liners
2. all main and rod bearings
3. all valves, guides, seals, and springs
4. have the block line bored.
My question to you is that he doesn't know the condition of my motor except what I have told him in the past, so why do you need to replace all of the above?
Sure, if it's not your $$ why not tell someone to replace everything?
I'm not saying it doesn't need those things, but shouldn't it be inspected and tolerences measured before just replacing everything?
The reason for pulling it is that it was starting to smoke upon acceleration. It had been smoking only on re-acc. after going down a hill (valve seals?)
Also it was leaking oil quite a bit as well. Also starting to burn oil.
The wierd thing about all this is when I pulled the plugs out they were a nice light brown color even though upon acceleration their would be a big blue cloud following me.
As far as I know the motor has never been touched ( I figured this out when dis-lodging the heads). It had 64000 miles on the car when I bought it and have put over 5000 miles on it myself.
What should I do? My mech. told me it would cost me almost $10000 if I rebuilt it myself (putting it together and back in the car after machine work). Does this sound right?
Can't the cylinders be honed to a 1st or second oversize?
All new valves?
Any response would surely help
rivee |