| Author |
Message |
JRV (Jrvall)
Intermediate Member
Username: Jrvall
Post Number: 1191
Registered: 11-2002
| | Posted on Thursday, March 27, 2003 - 8:23 am: | |
>>If the oil cooler was moved later in the 308 series, what was the driver's door air scoop feeding before that? <<
They only moved it a few inches...not really called moving imo (hence my previous statement)...more of a repositioning in the same area imo. |
joe saldana (Ironjoe)
Junior Member
Username: Ironjoe
Post Number: 154
Registered: 12-2001
| | Posted on Thursday, March 27, 2003 - 8:16 am: | |
The NACA DUCTS are scavengers of BOUNDARY LAYERS of slow moving air that clings to the body of your F-car n when directed properly with vortices they usually work for manifold air intake,oil-cooler, and sometimes a/c on some rides..... |
joe saldana (Ironjoe)
Junior Member
Username: Ironjoe
Post Number: 153
Registered: 12-2001
| | Posted on Thursday, March 27, 2003 - 8:01 am: | |
Hi,Dr.Cosgrove,Yes the website is www.laneautomotive.com also www.allstarperformance.com Besides the Aeroquip cooler the Fluidyne Therm-Hx Heat Exchanger is an Excellent item too DUN30500 series they get up to 50 degrees in temp reduction..... |
Dr Tommy Cosgrove (Vwalfa4re)
Member
Username: Vwalfa4re
Post Number: 917
Registered: 5-2001
| | Posted on Thursday, March 27, 2003 - 7:15 am: | |
If the oil cooler was moved later in the 308 series, what was the driver's door air scoop feeding before that? |
BretM (Bretm)
Advanced Member
Username: Bretm
Post Number: 3314
Registered: 2-2001
| | Posted on Wednesday, March 26, 2003 - 11:12 pm: | |
They moved the oil cooler on the 308s when the moved the expansion tank over to the left rear corner of the engine compartment (where the cooler was). Not sure what serial numbers but some carb cars have the old setup with the cooler how Peter's car is right up against the trunk compartment but set up perpindicular to it. The later 308s have it right in front of the duct on basically the angle of the duct from the body. |
JRV (Jrvall)
Intermediate Member
Username: Jrvall
Post Number: 1189
Registered: 11-2002
| | Posted on Wednesday, March 26, 2003 - 10:47 pm: | |
>>I thought it was because the oil-cooler housing was in a hard-to-reach location on the GTB/S,<<
Peter, actually the cooler location is the same on both cars, by the l/r shock, but the smaller engine comp. (seems tighter, never measured them) of the B/S means the cooler is a little closer to the headers. Ferrari also had a simular "Flap" on Daytoma Air Cleaner Snorkles that they did away with on the Boxers. Many things change with time that I just accept at face value, (nolonger needed). |
'75 308 GT4 (Peter)
Advanced Member
Username: Peter
Post Number: 2614
Registered: 12-2000
| | Posted on Wednesday, March 26, 2003 - 10:24 pm: | |
JRV: "...Why did they eliminate the flap....don't know..probably has to do with the introduction of multi wieght oils."
I thought it was because the oil-cooler housing was in a hard-to-reach location on the GTB/S, not like the GT4 (which features this flap) who's cooler is right smack-up against the trunk-side firewall. |
jeff ryerson (Atheyg)
Junior Member
Username: Atheyg
Post Number: 203
Registered: 8-2002
| | Posted on Wednesday, March 26, 2003 - 8:40 pm: | |
You guys are right no thermostat, I thought they had one to protect the cooler, rechecked they do not, must have been why my cooler burst on the PO quite a few years back
|
Andy Falsetta (Tuttebenne)
New member
Username: Tuttebenne
Post Number: 1
Registered: 3-2003
| | Posted on Wednesday, March 26, 2003 - 7:23 pm: | |
I agree with the suggestions to change the oil temp sender. While you're at it, change the oil pressure sender as well. I haven't seen one that was accurate after ten years of service. You'll be pleased to see what your oil pressure REALLY is. |
david handa (Davehanda)
Member
Username: Davehanda
Post Number: 551
Registered: 5-2001
| | Posted on Wednesday, March 26, 2003 - 2:15 pm: | |
I don't think the 308/328 series has a thermostat....maybe later cars, but I have not seen one on these cars anywhere. |
Ben Millermon (Brainsboy)
Junior Member
Username: Brainsboy
Post Number: 162
Registered: 5-2001
| | Posted on Wednesday, March 26, 2003 - 2:14 pm: | |
To be honest im not sure there can be an inline thermostat. It looks to me that directly from the oil pump it go's through the oil cooler, from the oil cooler it go's directly to the oil filter, a thermostat would cut off 100% of your oil pressure, I dont think its even possible to have one inline on the 308. |
JRV (Jrvall)
Intermediate Member
Username: Jrvall
Post Number: 1184
Registered: 11-2002
| | Posted on Wednesday, March 26, 2003 - 2:03 pm: | |
>>Why else would my old 'Dino'saur have an adjustable flap in the air passage? Wouldn't be needed if there were a thermostat.<<
They older cars have a flap for winter driving, Oil Temp is supposed to run at a minimum of 180F...so the flap can be switched to the closed/winter position to allow the temp to come up to normal.
Why did they eliminate the flap....don't know..probably has to do with the introduction of multi wieght oils. |
Dr Tommy Cosgrove (Vwalfa4re)
Member
Username: Vwalfa4re
Post Number: 907
Registered: 5-2001
| | Posted on Wednesday, March 26, 2003 - 2:03 pm: | |
Jeff - Where's that oil thermostat? Mine is a 84 308. Also, which hose is the output hose, top or bottom?
Joe - Does that place have a website? The oil cooler on my Sciroccos uses water as well.
Hans - Of course I use recycled oil. I have to do my part for mother earth. :-) |
Hans E. Hansen (4re_gt4)
Intermediate Member
Username: 4re_gt4
Post Number: 1005
Registered: 4-2002
| | Posted on Wednesday, March 26, 2003 - 1:15 pm: | |
Maybe later cars have an oil thermostat, but I'm quite sure that back in 1975 they don't. Why else would my old 'Dino'saur have an adjustable flap in the air passage? Wouldn't be needed if there were a thermostat. |
Lawrence Coppari (Lawrence)
Member
Username: Lawrence
Post Number: 543
Registered: 4-2002
| | Posted on Wednesday, March 26, 2003 - 12:56 pm: | |
I did not realize the coolers had a thermostat. Mine must be stuck as I have to stuff some rags in the air intake to get oil temperature up in frigid (10 F) weather. The original cooler operated this way too.
Are you certain they have one. Mine is a 1987 328. |
Hans E. Hansen (4re_gt4)
Intermediate Member
Username: 4re_gt4
Post Number: 1002
Registered: 4-2002
| | Posted on Wednesday, March 26, 2003 - 12:55 pm: | |
Just a guess here: I would think that any modern *high quality* motor oil would have enough detergents to keep the cooler reasonably clean. You're not using recycled oil, are you? <g> |
joe saldana (Ironjoe)
Junior Member
Username: Ironjoe
Post Number: 152
Registered: 12-2001
| | Posted on Wednesday, March 26, 2003 - 12:30 pm: | |
Hi,Dr.Cosgrove If your working on it,you may want to consider a Water to Oil heat exchanger, they work alot better, need no air,simple to plumb in.... Aeroquip AERFBM2194 at Circletrack parts and accessories 800-772-5266 it will produce a dramatic decrease in temp..... |
jeff ryerson (Atheyg)
Junior Member
Username: Atheyg
Post Number: 201
Registered: 8-2002
| | Posted on Wednesday, March 26, 2003 - 12:03 pm: | |
You may have a partially opening oil thermostat also, when your car gets up to temp I'd touch the output hose on your cooler to see if its hot, unless your cooler has collapsed inside i'd find it hard to believe oil sludge or other debris is clogging it, i'd understand it in a Fiat but not a well maintained regular oil changed Ferrari |
Dr Tommy Cosgrove (Vwalfa4re)
Member
Username: Vwalfa4re
Post Number: 906
Registered: 5-2001
| | Posted on Wednesday, March 26, 2003 - 8:29 am: | |
The oil psi does fall a bit at low rpm's but when I'm turning 6-7K rpm on the track it is just about perfect. |
Lawrence Coppari (Lawrence)
Member
Username: Lawrence
Post Number: 542
Registered: 4-2002
| | Posted on Wednesday, March 26, 2003 - 8:08 am: | |
Many years ago I removed the oil cooler on my 328 because it was leaking. To do it I purchased two 15 - 18 inch adjustable wrenches from Harbor Freight. As they were quite inexpensive, I ground one of them to make it thinner so I could get the old cooler off.
The connectors were very hard to get loose.
I would check the oil temperature sender unit before I replaced the cooler.
Your oil pressure should drop if the oil gets so hot. Did it??????? |
Dr Tommy Cosgrove (Vwalfa4re)
Member
Username: Vwalfa4re
Post Number: 903
Registered: 5-2001
| | Posted on Wednesday, March 26, 2003 - 7:18 am: | |
It's not that I think the cooler is plugged. I was just thinking that there may be a slight build up of crud in the lines interfering with an efficient heat exchange.
The idea struck me when I was cleaning the oil "filter" on a Fiat 850 Spider last weekend. If anyone has done this before they will know why this idea about my 308 cooler dawned on me. |
Hans E. Hansen (4re_gt4)
Member
Username: 4re_gt4
Post Number: 999
Registered: 4-2002
| | Posted on Wednesday, March 26, 2003 - 12:11 am: | |
My oil temp runs icy cold, so what you are saying is most unusual. I'd DEFINITELY suspect the temp sensor. If the cooler was plugged, I think you'd have other problems, as the cooler is in series with the rest of the oil system. If nothing is going thru the cooler, nothing is going thru the rest of the oil system either!! |
'75 308 GT4 (Peter)
Advanced Member
Username: Peter
Post Number: 2612
Registered: 12-2000
| | Posted on Tuesday, March 25, 2003 - 10:39 pm: | |
Tommy, the cooler is delicate and expect the fittings to be seized. Always use two wrenches - one on the cooler fitting and one on the hose. They're an odd-ball metric size (ones that I don't know off the top of my head), so measure first (adjustable wrenches may be too thick in profile to use on the cooler fitting...). |
Dr Tommy Cosgrove (Vwalfa4re)
Member
Username: Vwalfa4re
Post Number: 895
Registered: 5-2001
| | Posted on Tuesday, March 25, 2003 - 10:10 pm: | |
I was planning on changing the oil this weekend so I'll call Rutlands and get a new sending unit. Is pulling the oil cooler a tough job? Can someone tell me what to look out for?
Paul - I'll be in Sebring next week. Are you going to make it? I want to see that 308 of yours. ( I'm thinking you live down that way) |
Verell Boaen (Verell)
Member
Username: Verell
Post Number: 628
Registered: 5-2001
| | Posted on Tuesday, March 25, 2003 - 9:31 pm: | |
Before adding a fan, if you suspect crud, pull the oil cooler, drain it, fill it with citrus solvent, or your favorite parts cooler. Let it soak overnight. Back-flush it with a rinse. (ie: flow the rinse solvent in the opposite direction of the oil flow.) Repeat it if necessary.
That should get any crud out. |
david handa (Davehanda)
Member
Username: Davehanda
Post Number: 545
Registered: 5-2001
| | Posted on Tuesday, March 25, 2003 - 9:17 pm: | |
Tommy, I had the same problem on my previous 308, it was a bad oil temp sender. Once replaced ($15 from T.rutland's, all was well. It is so cheap, I would replace it first, before worrying about anything else. |
Paul Sloan (Sloan83qv)
Member
Username: Sloan83qv
Post Number: 521
Registered: 3-2001
| | Posted on Tuesday, March 25, 2003 - 8:46 pm: | |
Tommy,
When I last tracked my 308QV I noticed higher than normal oil temps (new senders installed) and my water temp remained constant. I thought about adding a boat blower (used in engine compartment ventilation)but I think the answer is a bigger and relocated oil cooler with a temp sensing fan. |
Dave328GTB (Hardtop)
Member
Username: Hardtop
Post Number: 476
Registered: 1-2002
| | Posted on Tuesday, March 25, 2003 - 7:57 pm: | |
Tommy,
308 oil coolers often need replacing beause of leaking. Haven't heard of plugging up. 308 cooling systems are marginal anyway. However, like Steve, I would suspect the gauge or sensor first. If your water is running the same as always, then hot oil does not make sense.
Dave |
Steve Magnusson (91tr)
Intermediate Member
Username: 91tr
Post Number: 1553
Registered: 1-2001
| | Posted on Tuesday, March 25, 2003 - 5:13 pm: | |
I'd try an oil temp sensor-ectomy first (unless you've got some other relatively easy way to verify the actual oil temp). Nothing wrong with adding an auxillary fan (but I think it will only be useful at idle -- i.e., when the fan airflow exceeds the natural airflow due to forward motion). |
Dr Tommy Cosgrove (Vwalfa4re)
Member
Username: Vwalfa4re
Post Number: 892
Registered: 5-2001
| | Posted on Tuesday, March 25, 2003 - 5:01 pm: | |
On the track my oil temp will swing way over to the right. Lately I have noticed that it seems to be a little on the warm side around town even on a cool day. I was wondering if it is possible that the oil cooler may be hanging on to 18 years of crud that may be interfering with the heat exchange. Sorta like a radiator that needs rodding out. I have thought about placing a small electric fan (about 51/2 inch) behind it and running a on/off switch in the cabin to help pull air thru it when needed. Does anyone think this is a bad idea?
By the way, my oil level is fine and the water temp, both on the track and off, stays normal.
What does everyone think? |