| Author | Message | ||
| Herbert Edward Gault (Irfgt)
|
I will have some more systems delivered in a couple of weeks and will post some actual installed assemblies so that everyone can see the entire installed ready to run system. All my other installed pictures were wiped out in the computer crash. | ||
| Octavio Mestre (Alfab4308)
|
Thanks for the info Herb. I have had alfa romeos for the last 14 years and they are also extremely reliable in that regard. Nice pulley system by the way. | ||
| Herbert Edward Gault (Irfgt)
|
It is not necessarily better than a chain but is cheaper and easier to design around without having to encase a chain for lubrication. I have seen hundreds of timing chains broken and or worn out with broken guides and front engine housings worn through from the chain flopping around. The Mercedes V-8 engines are notorious for the chain jumping some teeth on the left bank and warping valves and actually breaking the valve cover when the chain jumps. The Toyota 22R engine and the Nissan Z-24 engines use chains and have a history of expensive failures. Oddly enough the 280Z engines never give any timing chain problems whereas the L20B 4Cylinder engine in the trucks that use the exact same chain and tensioner as the 280Z have a high failure rate. The Quad 4 engine that GM uses has a chain that is enclosed in a seperate housing that looks amazingly like a belt housing. After several factory modifications the Quad 4 chain system is very dependable and by the way it is one awesome powerful powerplant. Drive one if you ever get the chance. | ||
| Octavio Mestre (Alfab4308)
|
I hope you guys won't mind what is probably a dumb question but why is a timing bel considered better than a chain? Though I personally know of several engines that have been damaged due to a broken timing belt, the only chain I have ever heard of that broke was one from a diesel mercedes that had about 300k miles at the time. | ||
| Herbert Edward Gault (Irfgt)
|
I do not know whether Gates invented the thing and I doubt if you could ever find the true story. It says in the article in the magazine that Pontiac started experimenting with the belt in 1959 after having used one on an air compressor for 3.5 years. I do not know how many of the OHC Tempests were made, but the 4BBL versions were awesome in power having had a friend that owned one. It was my first experience with OHC engines. The belts would not break, however the square teeth would strip off the belt from the crankshaft pulley since it is the smaller of the pulleys with less pulling power with less teeth in contact. This is the same problem that all the square tooth belts suffer from all the way up to the last Honda, Nissan and Mazda applications. The teeth would sheer right off the belt on the crank pulley. I have never seen a round tooth belt strip off. In fact I have seen Hondas which have been run low on oil and sieze the camshaft in the head and the cam would break in half and the belt still be intact and in time. | ||
| Frank Parker (Parkerfe)
|
We were all wrong. After a little research I found that the first use of an automotive cam belt system was used in the two cylinder Goggomobile in 1945. In the early 1950s cam belts were used by both Fiat and Vauxhall. | ||
| Paul Sloan (Sloan83qv)
|
Herb, Very limted production and the engine was an option I believe. Vega & Pinto were 1st mass produced timming belt auto's. Here's a question: I believe that Gates developed the timming belt, is that a correct belief? Paul | ||
| Herbert Edward Gault (Irfgt)
|
As far as I can remember Pontiac was the first to use a timing belt on the 1966 Tempest.  | ||
| Paul Sloan (Sloan83qv)
|
Frank, No where did I state that Ferrari developed the timming belt, what I did say is that in the mid 70's they switched from chains to belts as belts had become "state of the art". Where did someone say belts were "cutting edge"? It is unfortunate that your post misleads one to believe that someone made a statement that never was made, let alone that your statement was incorrect regarding what Ferrari first used timming belts. By the way Timming belts were not used for decades prior to the early 70's and were first used sucessfully (mass produced auto's) in 1971 on Ford Pintos and Chevy Vegas, Honda did not use a belt until 1973 on it's Civic. I guess that you were mistaken. Paul | ||
| Frank Parker (Parkerfe)
|
Drew, you're correct. I meant to say the 365BB was the first Ferrari to use cam belts vs. chains. | ||
| Drew Altemara (Drewa)
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Frank: My 246GT had timing chains. I think you meant to say the Boxer was the first Ferrari production car with timing belts. My 512BB has belts. Never the less your point is still the same. | ||
| Frank Parker (Parkerfe)
|
I would like one of those new cam belt systems for my 348 when it needs its next major service. How about a design for the 348 engine ? As far as Ferrari producing "state of the art technology", that is a joke, right ? Ferrari rarely produces anything that hasn't been tried by other manufacturers first. The cam belt replaced the cam chain first for Ferrari in the 246 series, not the 308. But, it had been used by Honda and most all other Japanese car and motorcycle companies for decades. It was hardly cutting edge technology in the mid 1970s. Ferrari is a very small company that doesn't really have the resources to pioneer new technology other than what it gets from its F1 program, hence the new F1 shifter first put in a 355. However, even that technology was developed by Magneli Marelli in the 1980s but not used in a Ferrari road car until the late 1990s. If you want "state of the art" technology in a car, buy a new BMW or Honda with the Vanos and VTEC variable valve timing systems. If you want an exotic, get a Ferrari. | ||
| Herbert Edward Gault (Irfgt)
|
They are also available at www.candycastle.net | ||
| Herbert Edward Gault (Irfgt)
|
They are more of a North Carolina thing than a South Carolina thing. I believe you can find them at www.mastgeneralstore.com . I am coming down to Fla. this weekend for some R&R and if I can find some I will let you know. | ||
| magoo (Magoo)
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OK, Now it makes sense, I guess. | ||
| Scott Gold (Scotttgold)
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It's candy! Good taste'n peanuts & carmel and so gooey it'll pull your teeth out for sure. Gotta try'em | ||
| magoo (Magoo)
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Whaaaaat the hell are "Squirrel Nut Zippers"? Is that like a "Reverse Muffler Bearing?" | ||
| Scott Gold (Scotttgold)
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Herb, When I get the money I'm getting one of your systems, by the way can you ship some Squirrel Nut Zippers with that, I can't find'em ANYWHERE! Scott, Tarpon Springs, Florida | ||
| Herbert Edward Gault (Irfgt)
|
Paul, while at work today I started thinking about the technology changes that the automobile has gone through and you saying that everything on your car must be out dated. I have been doing this a long time and to show how much things have changed since 1984 to 1994. I went into my shop library and pulled out some of my shop manuals. First from 1984 which was just about all you needed and could get for Foreign and Domestic was two books. Then I started pulling out the 1994 books for foreign and domestic. The second picture displays this. If you think this is a change you should see the 1997-2000 manuals. They almost fill an entire wall. I spend over $3,000 per year on books for my business just to keep up to date. It is unbelieveable and few people realize how much things have really changed from light bulbs down to the paint. I also appreciate your kind remarks about me and I hope I can live up to them.   | ||
| Greg Rodgers (Joechristmas)
|
Wow! I need a new plastic pulley for my 308 as the flange is cracked. The best price I can get is $250. Come on guys. This system has advantages. $250 for a plastic pulley. This is outrageous. I don't think it could do anymore harm than the plastic pulley system. | ||
| Dave L (Davel)
|
Hilarious!! Now the legal questions set in. How much of a warranty do you get from Nick or anyone else on a mod. Usually not much if any. Dont like it or the risk dont buy it. Lets keep the pathetic legal system out of this. You go Herb! You are right Ferrari thinks very little of any owner other than the guy with a newer car under warranty. That is the only place they have any LEGAL vulnerability. After that your a guy with a used car that produces little for the Ferrari bottom line. You might make some money for the dealer and thats about it. We all know they are overpriced and probably provide substandard service compared to the enthusiast owned places like Nicks. Anyway we pay too much for service and parts as it is considering how many other cars the parts fit. Heck Eugenio's Service inspires me to fight over priced dealers. Look at his web page and service costs. They are not much more than the Honda dealer. Maybe its time Ferrari owners to demand the prices that Eugenio has listed. ITs a car not a Gulfstream V aircraft for god sakes. Herb has it right. More technology, better parts, longer life. Drive on! | ||
| Herbert Edward Gault (Irfgt)
|
There can be no warranty, expressed, written or implied. If I am going to have to hire a legal team the project would never be worth it. As it is I am going to have to sell 10 sets just to break even. I am offering this at almost cost already. I already wish I had never offered it at all and selfishly kept it to myself. As I said before, Look at it, if you think it is for you then order one at your own risk. If anyone wants their deposit back then let me know. | ||
| Christiank (Christiank)
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Herbert: The question in regards to warranty is: Do you give any warranty in respect to a defect in workmanship or design failure of your product. I think this is what people are concerned about. Are there any laws concerning that in SC? Christian | ||
| Paul Sloan (Sloan83qv)
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Herb, I really do not think you have lost any friends over this thread and I think we all respect the work you have done on this system + your constant input on Ferrari chat. Paul | ||
| Herbert Edward Gault (Irfgt)
|
Of course there is no warranty on any experimental system such as this. This was developed to cure an inherent problem with the original system that posed an extreme risk. I had two different failures with the original system and therefore could not trust the original design. Since I see newer designs daily, I adapted the newer technology to my car. I assumed all the risk. I felt that the risk of the newer design outweighed the risk of the older design and I feel much more comfortable with the new stuff versus the old. On a car of this age,or any age there is a mechanical failure risk every time it is operated. All we can do is to provide the best technology possible to minimize the risk. Ferrari could care less about us, in fact they probably wish we would go away. In the future we are going to have to depend more on aftermarket parts and other peoples and our own judgement and ideas to keep our cars in working order. What I have to offer is an alternative that you must look at and read about and make your own decision which is best for you. If you trust what you have, then fine. If you think what I have to offer looks good and and the design is sound then I will do my best to make it available. If someone else had what I was looking for I would have bought theirs. Believe me I looked. I could have saved a ton of money. I did not set out to cause any controversy or loose any friends. I was just curing a problem which I am convinced I have done and am willing to share it with others if they want to take the risk. | ||
| Steve Magnusson (91tr)
|
Bill S. -- I've found that it isn't sufficient to just "depress and lock the belt tensioner in the full slack position" when installing the stock 2-valve timing belts -- and you risk breaking the delicate flange off of the stock cam pulley. In addition to fully compressing the tensioner, IMHO it's very helpful to (significantly) loosen the 3 nuts holding the tensioner assembly to the block -- this allows the tensioner pulley to be moved into a "drooped" position that gives even more belt slack so the belt can be easily installed without requiring excessive forces. Just a suggestion (not in the WSM)... | ||
| Christiank (Christiank)
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Paul: I couldn't agree more. Christian | ||
| Sam NYCFERRARIS (Sam)
|
For any of us which drive or want to drive our 20 year old ferrari's daily, we should all thank Herb for sharing his practical updates and improvements with us and offering them to us for sale as well! Herb is very pragmatic in his approach and if you are not squemish about installing items without the prancing horse on them then Herb is a great resource. Like Nick, Herb puts this stuff on his own ferrari and he has really turned his 308 around! Nick is super for performance items and parts and advice and has a thriving performance, import, and fabrication business. We ferrari drivers have here a wealth of resources and it is about time -- after many years of no one paying attention to 308's (except maybe racers) I am glad to have both Herb and Nick to help me drive my car every day without the stress of worrying about the next expensive embarrassing failure. I for one have no problem with "better & cheaper" for my non-show cars. But as always, Paul is right, it is still buyer beware! But I know that both Herb and Nick are some smart automotive engineers - we are lucky to have them as Ferrari lovers. | ||
| Paul Sloan (Sloan83qv)
|
Herb, My intention is not to attack you or anyone else, however your contention that if you compare todays technology to 20 years ago as you have then I might as well replace everything in my Ferrari. As the developer of this system I expect you to be driving and testing the system but to offer this system out to the public with out any long term results is tempting fate, if your system fails it will cause at least $5000 damage to the engine. Here's the big question will you stand behind your system if it fails and detroys the top end of my engine? I will restate my earlier remark with an addition (CAPS): IMHO anyone who installs an untested (longterm) product in an engine where any failure could results in over $5000 in damage needs to have their head examined. WITH THE EXCEPTION OF THE PERSON WHO DEVELOPED AND IS TESTING IT. | ||
| '75 308 GT4 (Peter)
|
Bill Sebestyan, to answer your question about playing with cam timing without removing pulleys.... Adjustable vernier pulleys. Check this out: http://www.kentcams.com Or, simply, open up the "displacement angle" between cams by retarding the intake cam 2° (or back one hole on the pulley). This generates peak torque up a bit more. You can find this trick, in Allen S. Bishop's book "Ferrari Guide To Performance". To add to all of this: The world is a very big place.... | ||
| Bill Sebestyen (Bill308)
|
Thanks Herbert. So the belt is 2 teeth longer but this is compensated by a larger OD tensioner. The installation trick appears to be to slip the belt over the tensioner roller last. This pulley of course has no edge guides and no teeth to mesh because it rides on the smooth back side of the belt. Clever. Bill | ||
| Herbert Edward Gault (Irfgt)
|
If attacked without warning I will defend myself. Any time, any place. | ||
| Herbert Edward Gault (Irfgt)
|
I will try to answer Bills question. After setting the engine at TDC and the cams with the marks aligned and locked, you place the cam pulleys on the cams loosely without the pins so that the pulleys will rotate without turning the cams. Working with the leading cam which will be the intake cam on the front bank and the exhaust cam on the rear bank, place the belt over the leading and drive pulley and manually take the slack out and by trial and error rotate the leading cam gear until the pin will slip into the corresponding hole. Now you can completely install the belt over the trailing pulley and then over the tensioner roller and trial and error rotate the trailing pulley until the pin will insert into the corresponding hole keeping the slack out of the belt. Don't worry about tensioning the belt several times until you get it correct. You can then tighten everything down and remove whatever locking device for the cams that you used and rotate the engine several times to check your work. Repeat if it is not correct. after you are satisfied torque everything down and mark the cam to pulley relationship in case you should ever have to remove it because it is right from now on. The new belt will have two additional teeth and a larger tensioner roller so getting the belt over things is no problem. It's actually easier to do than explain. | ||
| Christiank (Christiank)
|
Haven't followed that discussion but it was kind of funny to read it now. I don't like when people get personal and as far as I remember Herbert stated that he feels the same. Wondering why you are leaving your principles behind you now. If your system is that good, let your customers speak for it's quality. I remember not too long ago that Nicks' customers sounded really happy about his work and his products. Someone new has to proove that first. I love my Ferraris and Herbert, of course they have a soul, why would I spend so much money for them then. Good luck for your project Herbert. Christian | ||
| Herbert Edward Gault (Irfgt)
|
The timing belt system that Ferrari and everyone else used at that time was state of the art. Today it is a piece of crap when compared to what is being produced today just as a Model A would be compared to a Lexus. If you want to use the old stuff that is fine and I respect your decision. After all it is your money to waste any way you desire. Personally I guess I need my head examined because I am hapilly driving around with something I trust much more than what was originally on my car. | ||
| Paul Sloan (Sloan83qv)
|
I think this discussion has gotten out of hand and while I do not wish to take sides I will add my two cents. I think Herb has done a nice job of adapting todays belt technology to the Ferrari but i also believe Nick makes a strong point in the sense that there are several other factors that must be taken into consideration with regards to Ferrari cam and timming maintainence that should be preformed every 20,000 miles or so. I DO TAKE GREAT EXCEPTION to Herbs statement that the orginal Ferrari Belt system "was a piece of crap" the orginal system was state of the art technology in mid 70's-85 and as with all technology there is a process of evolution thus new belt construction technology (which is incorporated into square tooth belts made today as well as rounded tooth belts) and tooth design. Herbs statement makes it sound that in the 1970's Ferrari took the cheap way out when really what they did is go with a new technology that would do away with the inherent timming chain problems, AND IT DID!. Herb, it was Ferrari that has always taken it's head out of the sand and produced some of the most advanced motoring technology. The best point Nick makes is that Herbs system has no short or long term results and while I respect Herb (and I told him directly that he came up with a great idea) until I see long term results of his system I will stick with my 70,000 mile, 7,500 RPM 308 piece of crap timming belt system that was developed by those silly engineers at Ferrari. IMHO anyone who installs an untested (longterm) product in an engine where any failure could results in over $5000 in damage needs to have their head examined. As for Nick and his "defensive stance" (dbh) when I buy something from Nick I Know that if he developed it then it has been tested with longterm results and that is when I will bolt it to my car without question. | ||
| Bill Sebestyen (Bill308)
|
Hebert, I�m a mechanical engineer who really likes the system you�ve put together. The only belts I�ve changed are on my 2V, 308 GTS. My belts have been on and off perhaps a couple of dozen times between iterations on valve clearances and cam timing adjustments. After much effort everything is now spot on. The issue I�d like you to address concerns re-assembly. When I fully depress and lock the belt tensioner in the full slack position, mesh the belt and drive pulley and one cam pulley, and slightly rotate the meshed cam to maximize belt slack for the remaining pulley, I can just slip the belt over the edge of the cam pulley which does not having an outside edge guide. Your system has deeper teeth with outside guides on all pulleys. Do you have a trick for getting the belt over the outside guide of the last cam pulley or do you mesh the belt and remaining pulley before fitting it to the end of the cam? Now if we could only come up with an adjustment mechanism that would allow us to play with the cam timing without removing the cam pulleys and refitting the belt. Is this wishful thinking? Bill | ||
| Jim E (Jimpo1)
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I think we all need to recognize that the opinions below are based on the experiences of those offering them. They have different experience, and therefore different opinions. I for one value BOTH opinions and appreciate that we have a forum to express them. Thanks Herb, Thanks Nick! | ||
| DAVID B HOLMES (Dbh)
|
Herbert. regarding your 8 27 writting GOOD FOR YOU it is too bad that NICK has taken a defenssive stance in this subject you ar right!!! and the many car manufaturs that changed suports your stance!! I CAIN'T WAIT TO BUY YOUR PRODUCT!!!!!!!! | ||
| Herbert Edward Gault (Irfgt)
|
It only took me one time of Ferrari belt changing to realize that the original system was a piece of crap, even with new steel gears which is the kind that jumped on my car. Obviously you have yet to learn or make so much profit on the old system that you won't admit it. Nissan has a set of pulleys to convert the older 300z and Maxima engines to the new type belts. Why? because of previous problems with the square tooth belt. I guess that you have never changed one of these. Honda changed their engines to the round tooth from the square. Mazda changed, Volvo changed, Mitsubishi changed, Subaru Changed, Toyota changed, Pontiac changed, Ford changed, BMW changed. Chevrolet didn't and we all remember the Vega and Chevette. You are exactly right, I will never change another Ferrari belt. I will only install the new stuff. If there is a problem with cam seal longevity then their quality needs to addressed as well. As far as the timing changing, no other manufacturer that I have ever seen has to index the cams the way Ferrari does because their systems are so exact and the belts so precise that it realigns every time the belt is replaced. EVERYTIME, in fact there is no way to change it on any other car. Once set, the cams will realign without re-indexing. You need to get out more and get your head out of the sand and see what is out there. A Ferrari is a machine, plain and simple. It has no soul, it has no feelings, it is nuts, bolts, and parts. The name Ferrari just helps to identify the machine. My parts do not know if they are on a Ferrari or a Yugo. The Gates Rubber company who assisted in the production of my system computed the speeds of the parts, the horsepower to operate the components, the length of the pulley centerlines, the diameters of the gears, and the pulley width to help determine the requirements and I appreciate the help they gave in the finished product and I am proud to see the results. I could care less if any one else buys the product. I set out to cure a problem with my personal car and I have more than accomplished that. I can now start my car and know that no matter how good or bad the thing runs, the timing belts will be in time and I won't have to change them for years to come. I have addressed two of the main problems that the 308 has that keeps them from being daily drivers and now I trust my car. | ||
| Nick Scianna (Nick)
|
I did not adress YOUR system in my e mail to Ferrari chat.I did adress TESTING of ANY modifications that are performed on these engines.I also did address the misrepresentation that all 308 series Ferrari timing belt pulleys are plastic.I also presented most scenarios that cause belt problems in typical Ferrari 308 engines for Ferrai chat members.I also did address that the newer style belts are technically better,but you are still missing the overall picture!We have had a sytem avalible for a long time which is diffrent from OEM,some chat members have pics of it.The bottom line is that changing from the OEM system will not make timing belt changes any easier for a TYPICAL 308 2 VALVE INJECTED owner who drives his or her cars 5-10,000 miles per year.It seems like you took it a little too personal Herb,Yeah you are probably right,you have probably changed a lot more timing belts than me,but NOT FERRARI ONES! | ||
| Adam Goldman '86 TR (Icnsltmfg)
|
Herbert; I am still interested in your system for my TR when it is time ( 2-3 years ) for my major service. I have used this type of belt on my Harley main drive belt, and never once had to even make an adjustment. The belt is fantastic, and the tooth design is much more stable. HD has used this design for all of it's EVO bikes with out any problems. | ||
| Herbert Edward Gault (Irfgt)
|
You were extremely interested in the system until you saw the wholesale price to you versus the retail price that I am selling it at. I guess there was not enough profit in it for you so now you want to slam my design so you can sell more of the ancient design factory stuff to owners who don't know any better. I am willing to bet that I have replaced more timing belts on more cars and been involved in more evolution of the timing belt than you have ever seen and I resent you lieing to the people due to your ignorance of my product. What I am selling is not new but a tried and proven system that is in use on millions of automobiles that abandoned the square tooth design years ago and I dare you to prove me wrong. | ||
| Nick Scianna (Nick)
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Hi.Nick Scianna back,there seems to be a little confusion or a lack of knowlage on the engineering of the Ferrari timing system.Yes the new designed belts are technically better,but it does not matter in the overall engineering design as a complete package.With respect to the high reving pre 348 series engines the stock system works just fine for your average driver who drives these cars around 10,000 miles a year.You are still dealing with a TIME issue on the belts themselves,along with other events that need to be adressed such as valve adjustments that NEED to be done,cam seals that WILL usually leak after a period of time.We have seen cam seals leak after a valve cover has been removed or torqued by someone who is inexperienced.The odds are, that work will still need to be performed in and around the 5 ish years or 30,000 which means that the belts will still need to come off in or around that period of time.Another issue is that the cams will still move around once you release tension off of the belt,so the method of changing the belt has not changed,even if it is a new design,the cams still move!The part of the sytem that is a CONCERN is the tensioner assembly,usually they stick cause the never get taken apart cleaned,lubricated & testing the spring underneath the piston to make sure that the spring tension is with in factory spec.This leads us to modification the fabricating of the tensioner bearing and assembly itself,lots of time HAS to be spent in engineering a sytem NOT JUST THE BEARING! that will actually work correctly.This is a science,usually handled by a ouside firm who specializes in correct formulas for this exercise and taking account all possible scenarios that could happen to the engine,then with TEST MULES in order to look at the LONG TERM effects of any or all modifications on these engines!As far as the problems with cams jumping time,its caused usually by 3 things inexperience on installation,sticky tensioner piston assembly or one of the ignition boxes going bad at start up on a Marelli style sytem that used a box for each bank # MED 802 A BOXES & MED 803 BOXES causing the engine to kick back backwards for a brief second and causing the belt to jump usually on bank 5-8.Ferrari adressed the timing belt pulleys a long time ago and replacement metal ones.The 4 valve engines are metal also from the factory.We manufacture IN HOUSE light weight aluminum pulleys in T 6061 or 7075 depending on the customer's requirements during the engine re building proceedure,along with a PROVEN ultra HIGH PERFORMANCE VERSION timing system which is coplete OVERKILL for any street/weekend track type application,but as I stress it is really not needed in a 3 liter series application.I tell you from personal experience on my own cars that I would have a problem taking a client out in one of my own cars.like Isabella and shifting at 8500 rpm.yes 8500 with belt older than 3 yrs!But then again I drive the living &%$# out of my cars on a daily basis!I average 500 miles per week on my red test mule alone!Oh and by the way don't think that Dayco,Pirelli and the other belt manufactures are going to keep the old composition of belt technology that was designed 20-25 yrs ago and just do special runs of Ferrari belts for 308/328/TR owners using OLD belt composition technology.Chances are that the composition of the belt itself is very simular to any of the new style belts on the market at the moment other than the tooth design.If anyone would like to see pics of our OVERKILL timing system that we use in house for SPECIAL applications e mail me directly and I will send you a pic of the assembly,been there done that,wore out the T shirt!IF YOU VALUE YOUR FERRARI STICK WITH THE FACTORY TIME FRAME ALLOWMENTS,If you choose not to,chances are you will be at some point caling the FORZA for a rebuild!With any modification find out from the manufactuer,or designer of the mods how long they have tested with and what the long term effects actually are,be careful!I will be back more often to adress 308-328 engine related questions again!Always watching!Nick Scianna www.nicksforzaferrari.com | ||
| Herbert Edward Gault (Irfgt)
|
Requests for a quatrovalve system are running about 4 to 1 over the 2 valve system. I am doing the research on the 4 valve system and should have some answers soon. In the meantime, we are producing 2 valve systems as quickly as possible to fill current orders and will not sacrifice quality for quantity. Keep in mind that this was produced to cure an inherent problem with my car and without aspirations to market it. If you want one of these systems please let me know as the producer can do it easier if they do a big run at one time versus an occasional order. | ||
| Herbert Edward Gault (Irfgt)
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I am posting some specs and comparison pictures of the difference in the old versus the new timing belt designs for people who do not understand the difference and reasoning behind my re-engineering. Originally when timing belts were produced they were a square shallow tooth design that worked well for a short time and all manufactures used this design. Now all manufacturers have adopted the newest design that is more efficient and durable.  .Below you will see an actual older design plastic cam pulley with a single outer guide that actually came off and left the belt with nothing but the drive pulley to guide it along with an intact single guide pulley.  . Now here are some pictures of a Ferrari belt on the left and a High Torque belt on the right.  . If there is any further doubt about the durability of this system, The belt on the right off a Honda Accord has 122,000 miles on it. | ||
| Herbert Edward Gault (Irfgt)
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I am finally back on line!!! The response has been overwhelming to the belt system. I will get more pictures of the new versus old systems up ASAP and can now answer questions online. Thank you for your patience. | ||
| Bill Shumaker (Gabriel)
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Hey Herb, you can add me to the waiting list for one! 86 TR. -Bill | ||
| Jim E (Jimpo1)
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Can anyone get Herb a cam and drive pulley from a 4 valve? I'm about to cough up for a 30k service, and this sounds like a godsend! | ||
| Herbert Edward Gault (Irfgt)
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My computer is DOA now. I am working on a friends until mine is repaired. If anyone needs to talk to me you can reach me at 864-489-1779. Thank you. | ||
| Sam NYCFERRARIS (Sam)
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Herb, Looks like you got a new busienss here, build a better valve train belt system and the ferrarisis will beat a path to your door! I guess you can trim those wonderful Florida vacations of yours for a while. Imagine, Herb, the nerve of you to go and make a ferrari as reliable as a honda, you are going to take all the "mystique" and fun out of these cars and with reliable ferraris, what will we do with all our new found spare time? Help, will we have to get a life? will the chat room die for lack of urgent problems that never plague any normal car half its price....Herb your work threatens to reunite families all over the nation. Halt your dangerous ways! HMMM. a ferrari w/o a $5,000 belt change every 30K miles is not a Ferrari, enzo must be turning in his grave. | ||
| Herbert Edward Gault (Irfgt)
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I will be able to go into better detail after I get my computer working better. It takes me about 15 minutes to post a message. I am going to completely restore the thing tonight and hope for the best. | ||
| Ben Lobenstein 90 TR (Benjet)
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Herbert - Maybe in order to explain this better (as in to show others the differences) maybe you should post what the stock components/system looks like in comparason. Just a thought. -Ben | ||
| Herbert Edward Gault (Irfgt)
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I do not have a TR to experiment with, however I believe some of the TRs already have this system. | ||
| James Pai (Jaymus)
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How much for a system that would work for a 90 TR? Thanks Jaymus | ||
| Herbert Edward Gault (Irfgt)
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I have no experience with the 4 valve engines, but I understand that they use different pulleys than the 2 valve engines plus I do not have a 4 valve engine to experiment on. If I had one each of the cam and drive pulleys from a 4 valve engine to engineer from I am sure my system would work on it as well. | ||
| Sam NYCFERRARIS (Sam)
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This guy Herb is amazing, Ferrari should put him on an engineering consulting retainer! herb I would be interested in a 4v conversion and curious what installation and conversion work, steps are involved, is it simple bolt-on? Your 308 must be the best in the US with the direct fire and the the many other updates you have done. keep goin! | ||
| Herbert Edward Gault (Irfgt)
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After having problems with my personal car's timing belt jumping a notch, I decided it was time to update the system to 2000's Technology and replace the old Flat Tooth belt and Plastic pulley system. What I designed was a new system using the HDT-2 Highly Saturated Nitrile Belt with the pulley design that is utilized by almost every modern car on the road today. In the pictures below you will see the actual parts that are running flawlessly on my 82-308 today. The timing belts should have a service life between 60,000 and 90,000 miles between changes, with belt jumping and pulley run off virtually impossible. The Cam pulleys have guides on BOTH sides versus the original having them on only one side. The grooves are much deeper and the belt is silent running. The best part is that you will never have to reset the cam and pulley timing again. Just slip on a new belt and you are ready to go again. The belts are available at any place that sells Gates belts [T-212] part number, and the new idler pulley has a commonly available replaceable bearing that will reduce your entire timing belt change cost of parts to less than $100.00. I am making this system available to anyone who would like one for $1200.00 including shipping to any U.S. address. This system fits all known 2 valve engines and ones for the 4 valve engines can be custom ordered. Each system will be produced on a first ordered basis with delivery in approx. 6 weeks from order with a $500.00 deposit. Please let me know if interested and I will be glad to answer any questions about the system.    |