| Author | Message | ||
| Newman (Newman)
Intermediate Member Username: Newman Post Number: 1178 Registered: 12-2001 |
I started the project this past friday. I still havent worked on it this week but hopefully later today or tomorrow. I will be pulling the gears off the shafts to get to the rings. Ben, all of the gears have a cone shaped surface that the syncro ring rides on. The rings have grooves that cut through the oil as they grip the cone when a gear change is being made. As the grooves wear down over time, they dont cut through the oil to syncronize the gear speeds allowing for a smooth shift. Because they are worn, they travel further onto the cone of the gear. There is a minimum spec for the gap that remains between the dogs on the gear and the face of the ring. It closes as it wears. I cant see any reason why it would hurt pulling it by the head, the head is held by long studs and it seems to be a common method for lifting the engine. I just picked up the straps at a local parts store fairly cheap. It made the job very easy and it kept the engine at the right angle for engine bay clearance. Pulling it level isnt an option. | ||
| TomD (Tifosi)
Advanced Member Username: Tifosi Post Number: 3142 Registered: 9-2001 |
as the teeth wear they are not as deep and get "closer" to the "gum" | ||
| Ben Millermon (Brainsboy)
Junior Member Username: Brainsboy Post Number: 196 Registered: 5-2001 |
ok im going to ask a stupid question because I have never worked on a manual transmission before, but shouldnt the gap get larger with wear? you mentioned it gets closer. | ||
| Richelson (Richelson)
Member Username: Richelson Post Number: 862 Registered: 12-2001 |
Paul, when did you start this project? The straps are a wonderful idea. I was thinking about using them if I ever needed to pull the engine. Does it put any stress on the head? Where did you purchase these straps? | ||
| Newman (Newman)
Intermediate Member Username: Newman Post Number: 1176 Registered: 12-2001 |
Yes Ben, those 2 rings in the packages are the new syncros. They came from Trutlands and are made by ZF for him. I believe they are $240US each. About half dealer cost. I would check them since the engine is out but you will have to drop the trans pan. You use a feeler gauge to measure the clearance between the ring and the gear (dog teeth). As they wear, the gap closes. There is a spec in the manual for this clearance. DO yourself a favor and check them. | ||
| Ben Millermon (Brainsboy)
Junior Member Username: Brainsboy Post Number: 180 Registered: 5-2001 |
The last photo posted here, is that a photo of the syncro's? How to tell if they are worn. Are they expensive to replace? I have never had a transmission problem but I do have the motor out now for a rebuild, any suggestions of things I should do with the transmission. | ||
| Newman (Newman)
Intermediate Member Username: Newman Post Number: 1175 Registered: 12-2001 |
Good eye Peter, I have to make sure the check valve for the booster is good. It happens to be the same runner that the vacuum tee runs to. It runs well and was black prior to rebuilding the engine and carbs, nows its black again. As far as the TR trans goes, its very different but I would think the syncros are similar. They share a similar transfer gear setup as well. The differential setup is where they really differ. Ill continue with the pics tuesday or wednesday after I get my hands on the puller. | ||
| '75 308 GT4 (Peter)
Advanced Member Username: Peter Post Number: 2620 Registered: 12-2000 |
Paul, I like your strap-system better...  (What happened to #4 cyl carb intake, its really dark?...) | ||
| Larry (Larry)
Junior Member Username: Larry Post Number: 89 Registered: 3-2001 |
Thanks Paul Newman; will be looking forward to your next post. btw, had the V6 SHO, what a gas. too much power for a front wheel drive. | ||
| Henryk (Henryk)
Member Username: Henryk Post Number: 603 Registered: 8-2001 |
Newman: I will follow your posts, and pictures. Do you know if these would be any different for a TR, in rebuilding the trans? It would appear to be the same to me. | ||
| Newman (Newman)
Intermediate Member Username: Newman Post Number: 1174 Registered: 12-2001 |
You are right charles but the modification was supposed to be the fix for a cranky 2nd when cold. I will drill the hole anyway. It cant hurt and 1st will be better. Henryk, I only plan to replace 2nd and 3rd. 2nd is fine chances are in another 1000kms it'll go for a crap so Im doing it. Third is definately toast. Doesnt like a downshift and a fast (not a powershift) to 3rd makes a lovely blender type noise. My references are mainly the parts manual and my background as a mechanic. Ill check the others to see if they are in spec and change as required. The car has 150000kms on it and the box has been apart before. The ring nuts have been reused. Im replacing them. The shop manual mentions that if the box is apart and it has 30000kms on it, you should replace all of the syncros. Yeah right, Ill get right on that at every 30k service. I refered to the shop manual for the GT4 for some input on the gearbox disassembly and it said, "Once the internals are removed...inspect this and that,....." thanks for the details enzo. | ||
| Charles I Claussen (Atlantaman)
Junior Member Username: Atlantaman Post Number: 105 Registered: 3-2002 |
PAUL, A helpful hint here... In the pic where you are pointing at the small (shift bar) hole, If you go into the recess beside it and cross drill a small "bleed" hole into the back of the shift bar hole it will make life a LOT easier in cold weather.Ever notice it is hard to shift into 1st when motor is cold--that is because you are movng the bar into this hole and trying to compress cold oil into it. A small bleed hole in the back will allow oil to escape and enter thru the rear. Charles | ||
| Tazio Nuvolari (Nuvolari)
Junior Member Username: Nuvolari Post Number: 166 Registered: 9-2002 |
Hi Paul, I see you have been powershifting the 308; remember this is not a big block Chevy at the drags. Just kidding the project looks really good and I can't wait to see it. | ||
| Henryk (Henryk)
Member Username: Henryk Post Number: 601 Registered: 8-2001 |
What are all those Motorcraft parts doing in your Ferrari? HAHA | ||
| Henryk (Henryk)
Member Username: Henryk Post Number: 600 Registered: 8-2001 |
Isn't it unusual that the 3rd synchro would go first? I have heard of 2nd synchro problems, especially when cold. When cold, it appears to me that the 2nd and 4th synchros are the slowest to engage. Will you be replacing all of them......how many miles on the trans? Just curious. It is nice to see someone work on their car to such a great depth. I worked on my own Feraris, but have never had to work on the transmission. Where are you getting your references? Keep the pictures coming. | ||
| Newman (Newman)
Intermediate Member Username: Newman Post Number: 1173 Registered: 12-2001 |
Thats as far as Ive made it so far. I pulled the engine friday afternoon and now I need a puller from work. Ill continue taking pics at that time as the gears are removed,     | ||
| Newman (Newman)
Intermediate Member Username: Newman Post Number: 1172 Registered: 12-2001 |
Henryk, I rebuilt the engine last winter and it only has 8000kms on it since. I developed a tired 3rd syncro at about the 5000km mark. If I had known this was going to happen, I would have dealt with it then but thats life. I do plan to detail the engine bay, replace cv boots and some fuel lines. | ||
| Newman (Newman)
Intermediate Member Username: Newman Post Number: 1171 Registered: 12-2001 |
Oooops, Im pointing to the hole in this post, sorry. I had to remove the shift rods, and forks so I can remove the gears from the shafts. I will be using a gear puller now that the ring nuts are off. This will allow the gears to slid off so I can get to the syncros for 2nd and 3rd. I only plan to replace them unless the others are out of spec.     | ||
| Henryk (Henryk)
Member Username: Henryk Post Number: 598 Registered: 8-2001 |
Newman: Since the engine is out, are you planning to do anything else, besides sychros? | ||
| Newman (Newman)
Intermediate Member Username: Newman Post Number: 1170 Registered: 12-2001 |
Now you can see the gearbox internals, the special ferrari tool for the ring nuts (which a fellow ferrarichat member was kind enough to lend me). You can see the blind holw in the adapter housing that Im pointing to that the bleed hole modification is supposed to address. This is to make second engage easy when cold but this hole is for the 1st/reverse shift rod. I think the modification is bogus, at least on my 79 because the void next to the blind hole is for the 2nd/3rd and 4th/5th rods. There is no oil trying to be compressed when engaging these gears. So much for the modification.     | ||
| Newman (Newman)
Intermediate Member Username: Newman Post Number: 1169 Registered: 12-2001 |
Actually its a late model taurus SHO 32v V8 spare. Unfortunately it makes more HP than a 308 but its still just a ford. Here are some more pics of the transfer gears, clutch, adapter plate and so on.     | ||
| "The Don" (Mlemus)
Advanced Member Username: Mlemus Post Number: 3365 Registered: 8-2002 |
Hey Paul, Is that a spare engine in the background? | ||
| Newman (Newman)
Intermediate Member Username: Newman Post Number: 1168 Registered: 12-2001 |
Im in the process of replacing worn syncros in my 79 308GTB and I thought I would share some pics. I used PeterGT4's method of using straps to lift the engine but chose to lift by the front head only. I was able to leave the carbs on and the distributor in place. The strap idea worked well because I didnt want to remove and reset the carbs. It should run as it did prior to removal.    |