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John Whelan (Fodee)
New member
Username: Fodee

Post Number: 41
Registered: 10-2001
Posted on Tuesday, April 15, 2003 - 12:37 pm:   

My point is that nobody races on day old Castrol. Nobody races on the brake fluid that they qualify on. They change it the first chance that they get. Brake fluid should be chosen based upon it's wet boiling point. The dry point is a theoretical number only. The seals on most every brake caliper would not survive if we were able to actually achieve the dry boiling point temperatures. Castrol is not stable. Read the application literature that comes with it.
Rob Schermerhorn (Rexrcr)
Member
Username: Rexrcr

Post Number: 508
Registered: 11-2002
Posted on Tuesday, April 15, 2003 - 11:03 am:   


quote:

Every pit stop


No one does this either.

I don't care what you use, I am only advising based on data I posess, and professional experience.

I just don't agree with perpetuating false information.

I'd love to see the performance data that proves or suggests that Dow's or Castrol's fluid is so hygroscopic as to require bleeding on the hour, every hour, or risk unacceptable performace degradation.

My point is: no one races on silicone, no OEM uses it any more for new vehicles (including Ferrari).

It's great for restorations and such, which would certainly include older Ferrari's. I just don't recommend extreme high temperature useage, though it can and does work here too.

It's all good.
John Whelan (Fodee)
New member
Username: Fodee

Post Number: 40
Registered: 10-2001
Posted on Tuesday, April 15, 2003 - 10:48 am:   

That's exactly the point, we are not professional race teams. How many times do the endurance racers bleed their brakes during a race? Every pit stop. Also, racing brakes do not have dust seals because they are not worried about corrosion of the brake parts, not to mention that they would melt due to the heat generated by constant brake use. For the average track day car, silicone fluid is fine and very low maintenance. Race teams rebuild their calipers after every race, and the endurance guys go as far as changing their calipers during the race. If you want to pretend that you are a professional racer then be prepared for the constant maintenance involved.
Rob Schermerhorn (Rexrcr)
Member
Username: Rexrcr

Post Number: 507
Registered: 11-2002
Posted on Tuesday, April 15, 2003 - 7:24 am:   


quote:

after an hour in high humidity it is done


Not true, my friend.

I know of no professional race team in the world using silicone fluid for brakes or clutch.

SRF can be had for ~$50/liter by the case. Go for the Dow Corning Ford Heavy Duty brake fluid for cost reasons. It's $7.00 per pint.
John Whelan (Fodee)
New member
Username: Fodee

Post Number: 39
Registered: 10-2001
Posted on Monday, April 14, 2003 - 7:07 pm:   

DOT 5 silicone fluid is great, but it does have it's limits. The Forza article as usual was an opinion based article with little data to back up the claims. Silicone fluid does have it's limitations. The first being that it is difficult to get all of the air out of it if you bleed your brakes improperly. Second, you have to completely remove the old fluid from your system usually by rebuilding your system. You can bleed it all out but it will take you about 3 cans for the average car and you can't reuse the fluid. If there is any old fluid left in your system, all of the water that enters your brake system will accumulate in the old fluid. There are so many myths about DOT 5 but most of them are not true. DOT 5 is slightly compressible at any temperature. That is why the pedal feels funny. The difference is that it will feel the same even when you are cooking the brakes. This is just a matter of opinion, you like it or you don't. A car with hot brakes will have a very soft pedal when the fluid boils. Bleeding is the biggest issue, most people can't do it properly. You are crazy if you don't use it in your clutch system. It completely eliminates corrosion. The military and aerospace guys use it in everything. I use it in everything and I love it. It is the most high tech brake fluid there is. The Castrol stuff might out perform it in a sprint race, but after an hour in high humidity it is done. That stuff is $70.00/liter.
TomD (Tifosi)
Advanced Member
Username: Tifosi

Post Number: 3255
Registered: 9-2001
Posted on Monday, April 14, 2003 - 6:09 pm:   

that will prob have the biggest impact - I think you can use dot4 safely
Paul Jeffery (Peajay)
New member
Username: Peajay

Post Number: 21
Registered: 4-2002
Posted on Monday, April 14, 2003 - 5:37 pm:   

Thanks to everyone for the inputs, it doesn't sound like it is worth the trouble, since the brakes feel a bit soft I will probably bleed them and drain out the old fluid and replace with the dot 3 as given in the spec.
Bill Sebestyen (Bill308)
Member
Username: Bill308

Post Number: 449
Registered: 5-2001
Posted on Monday, April 14, 2003 - 3:54 pm:   

I switched my '66 Lotus Elan over to it some years ago to protect the hydraulics from corrosion and increase the fluid boiling point. In the end I wasn't happy with the change over. I think some of the seals exposed to the fluid may have expanded. In any event, the breaking and pedal just didn't feel right.
Mark (Markg)
Member
Username: Markg

Post Number: 446
Registered: 2-2001
Posted on Monday, April 14, 2003 - 3:07 pm:   

i have used silicon in all my previouse sports cars (240Z, 510 and 911) AFTER complete rebuild or replacement of rubber componants. Never had a problem with it, but also did not notice any particular advantage other than rubber does not deteriorate over time or from lack of use. Doubt I will go to the trouble with my 308.
Rob Schermerhorn (Rexrcr)
Member
Username: Rexrcr

Post Number: 503
Registered: 11-2002
Posted on Monday, April 14, 2003 - 2:21 pm:   

Lou, me thinks you're confused.

Silicone is the only hydraulic brake fluid that is NOT hygroscopic (not hyDro).

No Challenge, no racers use it.

Yes, one must completely flush the old if changing to silicone.
Rob Schermerhorn (Rexrcr)
Member
Username: Rexrcr

Post Number: 502
Registered: 11-2002
Posted on Monday, April 14, 2003 - 2:19 pm:   


quote:

Everything I have ever heard says that it is a superior fluid


???? Where, what, how???

I don't know of any OEM using it anymore (I know GM used to recommend it for pony cars in the early eighties). I don't know anyone racing on it. I only know restoration shops using it.

I don't recommend true DOT 5 silicone (not to be confused with synthetic) brake fluid. It's real bennefit is it won't take paint off, so it's perfect for a Pebble Beach restoration.

I don't race on it.

Not to be confused with DOT 5.1, which is not silicone.

Search the archives for "Ford Heavy Duty brake fluid" for my recommendations.
Lou B (Toby91)
Junior Member
Username: Toby91

Post Number: 143
Registered: 4-2001
Posted on Monday, April 14, 2003 - 1:30 pm:   

Have used it for years in my 512TR to help solve brake fluid boiling problem during track use. I think you will find most of the challange car guys also use it. It supposed to be more hydoscopic and therfore needs changing more often.
JPM (John_308qv)
Junior Member
Username: John_308qv

Post Number: 102
Registered: 4-2001
Posted on Monday, April 14, 2003 - 1:28 pm:   

Forza just had an article on brake fluid. I think the conclusion on Dot5 was that it was o.k. to use but you had to clear the system of old fluid and replace the seals for the change over.
TomD (Tifosi)
Advanced Member
Username: Tifosi

Post Number: 3246
Registered: 9-2001
Posted on Monday, April 14, 2003 - 1:27 pm:   

is this an 87 328, without abs? The DOT 3 fluids they make today should be fine - if you switch to a silicon based you need to really flush the system completely, there may be some other items to do as well, check the archives.

Paul Jeffery (Peajay)
New member
Username: Peajay

Post Number: 20
Registered: 4-2002
Posted on Monday, April 14, 2003 - 1:20 pm:   

I have just taken delivery of my first Ferrari a 1987 European GTS and I plan to do a full service soon. I noticed that the brake fluid is dot 3. Does anyone have experience of using Silicone which is dot5 ?? Everything I have ever heard says that it is a superior fluid, more expensive but not a big expense.
What are everyone's views ? anyone know if it is a definite NO NO for a Ferrari ??

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