| Author | Message | ||
| Mark (Markg)
Member Username: Markg Post Number: 458 Registered: 2-2001 |
I added the Hayden fans using mounting kits that came with them, i.e. mount each one indivdually using the nylon 'push-through the radaitor fins' straps. I will do a more professional job later. | ||
| James Selevan (Jselevan)
Member Username: Jselevan Post Number: 508 Registered: 6-2002 |
Hans wrote - "On a slight off-topic note, anyone know if the cooling fans provide any benefit at higher speeds? My theory here is that the natural air velocity is greater than that provided by the fans, therefore they don't do any good at speed. Anyone know for sure?" Interesting question. At first glance it would seem that the fans provide thrust by changing the momentum (mass multiplied by velocity) of the air entering to a larger momentum (mass multiplied by a greater velocity). It is the relative change in velocity that counts. Thus a fan that is able to increase the velocity of air passing through it by 50 mph will due so whether the car is moving or not. Simply add 50 mph to the car speed (assuming no head wind or tail wind). However, this assumes that the motor speed can increase accordingly. The motor's speed is governed by its horsepower rating and the "bite" of the blades - a stalemate is achieved when the thrust produced equals the horsepower of the motor. As one increases speed, the "free-wheeling" aspect of the air pushing the blades will allow the motor to spin at a faster RPM until it again achieves a stalemate - 50 mph differential. If the bearings and brushes allow the fan to achieve the necessary RPM, then the aforementioned 50 mph differential will be obtained. HOWEVER, from a thermodynamic perspective, there will come a point when the cooling affect of the air passing through the radiator will exceed the heat produced by the engine, at which time the thermostat will regulate the engine temperature. Thus, the fan becomes superfluous. I hope I have opened the gates for additional theoretical discussion. Jim S. | ||
| Randall (Randall)
Member Username: Randall Post Number: 320 Registered: 1-2003 |
I have no experience metal working and almost have a bracket made. You can buy the 1 1/4" wide metal that has holes pre-drilled and use that for the top part. The fans pretty much bolt onto that, and that can bolt up to where the radiator is connected. The bottom will require a bit more fabrication. Mark- Any chance you have a picture of how yours is done? The Hayden fans can be bought on ebay for ~$70 | ||
| Mike Procopio (Pupz308)
Member Username: Pupz308 Post Number: 288 Registered: 10-2002 |
My concern with the Hayden fans is the additional mounting bracket that's needed. Can your average non-metal worker get this thing made for the Hayden fans? | ||
| Mark (Markg)
Member Username: Markg Post Number: 456 Registered: 2-2001 |
'82 GTSi, had 1 dead Lucas fan and one weak one; now has 2 12" Hayden fans. Temp has reached 195 only once since swap; have problems reaching operating temp! | ||
| Paul (Pcelenta)
Member Username: Pcelenta Post Number: 308 Registered: 7-2002 |
maybe their 10B will work...sam, the name and number of the radiator shop in Lynbrook was D & J radiator....(516-887-9566 or 596-5920) they do lots of old car stuff (gas tanks, heater cores etc.) they charged $65 to clean and redo the upper seam on my radiator. | ||
| Sam NYCFERRARIS (Sam)
Member Username: Sam Post Number: 368 Registered: 4-2001 |
gentlemen, I have not fully explored this yet but for someone who wnats to here is a thought... The 308 round lucas fans are the same Cr*p as is now sold as a replacement fan for my Jaguar XKE..no here is where it gets intersting..there is a NY company that sells upgraded fans for the Jaguars they are on the Web I think they are called "CoolCatCorp.Com" I wonder if this fan and motor MAY fit our 308's...please please do not tell them you are asking about a Ferrari since they think they are selloing to Jag owners and the item is CHEAP. | ||
| Mike Procopio (Pupz308)
Member Username: Pupz308 Post Number: 285 Registered: 10-2002 |
Thanks Hans! | ||
| Hans E. Hansen (4re_gt4)
Intermediate Member Username: 4re_gt4 Post Number: 1113 Registered: 4-2002 |
Grease: I used a chassis/wheel bearing grease containing moly disulphide. Got it at Wally World. Just a super light coating on the inner surface of the bearing. Brushes: Just happen to have the box in front of me. Filko brand name, part # J10. These aren't an exact match, as the originals are square in cross section, and these are rectangular. Plus, I had to file the side a bit to get them to fit. Not a big deal. However, if you take the old ones into a parts store, you might get a better fit. Seems someone here about 6 months or so ago found some square ones. Do a search. | ||
| Mike Procopio (Pupz308)
Member Username: Pupz308 Post Number: 284 Registered: 10-2002 |
I'm now thinking that I might just rebuild the damn things myself. I've never done anything like this before, but then again, before a week ago, I had never changed my brake calipers before, either  . Hans, what kind of brushes, and where do you get them? What kind of grease for the bearings? Thanks guys! If I do this, I'll do a digital picture documentation of it... | ||
| Ken Vicentini (Ken_v)
New member Username: Ken_v Post Number: 7 Registered: 4-2003 |
Mike: Yes I think I paid $425 for the set. It was well worth it. I can't tell you how frustrating it was worrying about your temp. getting hot and having to stop and let the car cool down or staying at a fast enough speed to keep it cool. There's nothung worse than being broke down in a Ferrari. Well you probably do understand what I'm talking about. Good luck. | ||
| Hans E. Hansen (4re_gt4)
Intermediate Member Username: 4re_gt4 Post Number: 1106 Registered: 4-2002 |
Mike: Both of my Lucas motors crapped out at the same time. Weird but true. I ordered the QV ones from Rutlands for $200 ea, plus shipping, as I recall. While waiting for them to show, I took apart the Lucas units. Turned out it was a very easy repair. New brushes, a small dab of grease in the bearings, and a slight tweak on the freeplay adjusting screws. Work good as new. When the QV motors arrived, I put one on the right side, which operates with the A/C. I put a rebuilt Lucas on the other, just for comparison. The QV motors most definitely blow more air. Small hurricane. My car has never gotten close to overheating, so I didn't see the benefit of changing the other motor. You will have to change the wire ends for the QV motor (not a big deal). On a slight off-topic note, anyone know if the cooling fans provide any benefit at higher speeds? My theory here is that the natural air velocity is greater than that provided by the fans, therefore they don't do any good at speed. Anyone know for sure? | ||
| Mike Procopio (Pupz308)
Member Username: Pupz308 Post Number: 279 Registered: 10-2002 |
Thanks for the additional input, guys. So far, I haven't done any work at all on the motors. I've got three of them. One is OK, One is noisy, and the other dead. I've just now found a shop in Albuquerque that'll rebuild these 12V electric motors. They charge $45 an hour, and can usually do it the same day. I'm pretty sure they're just absolutely going to fall out of there chairs when I plop this 25 year old Lucas puppy on their workbench. I've got two working (kind of) in the car now. I've got third one that is intermittently dead (and out of the car). I'll give them this third one tomorrow and we'll see how they do. I'd probably settle for $150 to $200 in a well rebuilt motor before dumping $450 into the new QV ones... I think. We'll see how they do. BTW, Paul, on my replacement motor, there is a lot of end play in the spindle, as well. Ken, thanks again for the info--sounds like the QV fan motor is a sure bet. I'm really concerned about the price I've managed to get. Ken, is this about right for what you paid? Hans, you did a single QV motor--are the prices you paid and I was quoted consistent? | ||
| Ken Vicentini (Ken_v)
New member Username: Ken_v Post Number: 6 Registered: 4-2003 |
I upgraded my 79 GTB to the QV fans and it made all the difference in the world. Even sitting in stop and go traffic in the middle of a Texas summer my car still stays cool, which I couldn't do before the fan switch. I highly recommend it. | ||
| Paul (Pcelenta)
Member Username: Pcelenta Post Number: 305 Registered: 7-2002 |
mike, have you tried lubing the bearing with 3in1 electric motor oil? My driver side motor had tons of end play which I adjusted but still makes a racket...I was thinking of trying to oil up the bearings. | ||
| Mike Procopio (Pupz308)
Member Username: Pupz308 Post Number: 278 Registered: 10-2002 |
Excellent, yummy reading, Tom. My feeling is, before I a) Spend $440 installing QV fans, or b) Fabricate a bracket to mount the Hayden fans (I'm really no good at that sort of stuff), I'm going to c) Try having my lucas motors rebuilt (new brushes, cleaning, possibly bearings). I replaced one, and even the replacement is really noisy and tired. I'll report back when it's all done. | ||
| TomD (Tifosi)
Advanced Member Username: Tifosi Post Number: 3278 Registered: 9-2001 |
mike http://www.ferrarichat.com/discus/messages/112/193046.html http://www.ferrarichat.com/discus/messages/112/101927.html http://www.ferrarichat.com/discus/messages/112/81058.html http://www.ferrarichat.com/discus/messages/112/3451.html http://www.ferrarichat.com/discus/messages/112/3451.html | ||
| ctk (Ctk)
Junior Member Username: Ctk Post Number: 92 Registered: 7-2001 |
I replaced mine with a Porsche 928 fan. The result was most satisfying. I later found out that if I had bought it as a BOSCH fan for the Mercedes Benz S Class, it was less than half price. It fits without any major work. | ||
| Mike Procopio (Pupz308)
Member Username: Pupz308 Post Number: 277 Registered: 10-2002 |
It seems to be fairly common to upgrade the original cooling fans found on 308 GT4s and 2-valve 308 GTB/S with those found on the 308 QVs. Apparently, there is a significant difference in the cooling ability, due to the the motor speed and the design of the fan blades themselves. I'm interested in hearing the experience of anybody who has done this upgrade on their 308. My 308's been running pretty hot (220) as the outside temp gets warmer. I'm not ready to pull and recore the radiator right now. I trust the temp gauge--it behaves as I expect it to based on outside temp, traffic, etc. Before I do anything, I plan on bleeding the air out of the cooling system (there are no leaks, BTW--coolant tank is full) at the two locations on the radiator (with the heater on of course). I also plan on checking the voltage at the fan motors themselves (could be a fusebox issue). Assuming she still runs hot, I'm considering putting on the QV fans. Let's say I could get them for $440 for the pair, and I'd install them myself. Do the fans really run better? Worth the $440? Do they make a difference in the keeping the car cool? |