| Author | Message | ||
| James Glickenhaus (Napolis)
Intermediate Member Username: Napolis Post Number: 1167 Registered: 10-2002 |
IMHO an inproperely installed/restored fuel system could easily cause a fire. It happened to Art's 355. BTW he's a lawyer | ||
| Jay Feigenbaum (Lawyerjay)
New member Username: Lawyerjay Post Number: 4 Registered: 4-2003 |
Without getting into too many details, let it suffice for those of you who are anti-lawyer, there are some of us who actually try and help injured people and in the case I am working on, it is not me who is blaming Ferrari. there was another source of this fire and it is the entity responsible for the fire who is trying to deflect blame and blame the car. | ||
| Bob Campen (Bob308gts)
Member Username: Bob308gts Post Number: 526 Registered: 9-2001 |
What should our rate be to help? Rob would get half  | ||
| Ben Millermon (Brainsboy)
Member Username: Brainsboy Post Number: 282 Registered: 5-2001 |
ok time for an attorney joke. Do you know why the bury attorneys 10 feet deep? because deep down they are good people | ||
| Russ F (Russf)
Junior Member Username: Russf Post Number: 119 Registered: 3-2002 |
Ben. If that is the case then I retract what I said. Perhaps we should help him out. | ||
| Ben Millermon (Brainsboy)
Member Username: Brainsboy Post Number: 281 Registered: 5-2001 |
He gave me a private e-mail. I dont think he is sueing Ferrari. His clients car caught on fire from a paint booth explosion. The paint shop is claiming his ferrari was leaking gas and started it. Anyhow that the story I was told. | ||
| Frank Parker (Parkerfe)
Intermediate Member Username: Parkerfe Post Number: 2213 Registered: 9-2001 |
Russ, if it will make future Ferraris safer, why not. After all, Ford had to be sued to change the Pinto. GM had to be sued to change their sidesaddle gas tanks on trucks. Most of our products today are safer because some lawyer representing his client sued a manufacturer which either made its products safer or went out of business. | ||
| '75 308 GT4 (Peter)
Advanced Member Username: Peter Post Number: 2710 Registered: 12-2000 |
Good point Russ, there are inherent risks performing ANY kind of service, or repair on a vehicle, whether brand new or 100 years old. Common sense of workshop practices will avoid situations like this. Jay, if your client needs to blame/sue anybody for the result of this fire, it should be towards himself... | ||
| Russ Fairbanks (Russf)
Junior Member Username: Russf Post Number: 118 Registered: 3-2002 |
I am amazed that anyone on this site is helping this lawyer. He is preparing to go into court and make a case that Ferrari should design its cars so that 25 years later anyone can restore (take them apart and put them back together) them without fear that any fluid will leak out or anything else will happen that will injure someone. | ||
| Patrick S. Perry (Psp1)
Junior Member Username: Psp1 Post Number: 146 Registered: 3-2001 |
Here's the problem Jay - I'm not sure this was ever a pre-made piece that you could buy from Ferrari. It was just 2 pieces of rubber tubing, a generic check valve, and clamps. Even if it had been available off the shelf in 1976, Ferrari probably hasn't had one since 1977 (but that's another story), so finding one for testing purposes is going to be nearly impossible. Problem #2 is there are about 1,000 different ways that a return fuel line can leak enough gas to start a fire - virtually all of them can be eliminated by careful inspection and proper installation by a competent mechanic. One of the primary steps in the restoration of a 27 year old car would be the replacement of all rubber hoses exposed to air, fuel, brake fluid, etc. to specifically avoid a situation like this. It's possible that the fuel return line was faulty, but it's much more likely that either an old line wasn't replaced, was replaced incorrectly, or a clamp wasn't tightened properly. The responsibility will probably fall to the person doing the restoration (which I assume is your client). Either way, I'm guessing that the evidence was destroyed in the fire. | ||
| Ben Millermon (Brainsboy)
Member Username: Brainsboy Post Number: 277 Registered: 5-2001 |
Back to the original question that I guess you missed, How did the fire start? How it started would share alot of light on the problem. Was a spark plug wire loose, was he smoking, how far in restoring it was he, what model car was it, a us car?, euro car, v8, v12? Give us some more details and info, so we can help you. Sounds like a deposition huh? | ||
| Jay Feigenbaum (Lawyerjay)
New member Username: Lawyerjay Post Number: 3 Registered: 4-2003 |
Any idea where I can find one of the hoses/pipes used for fuel return line? | ||
| Patrick S. Perry (Psp1)
Junior Member Username: Psp1 Post Number: 145 Registered: 3-2001 |
Jay, Let me say right off the bat that I am not an expert in this field but I'll give you my .02 anyway from general Ferrari experience. You first need to ascertain whether the car is a Euro spec car or one built for the US market. The fuel return line is normally a small diameter rubber hose running from the carburettors back to the gas tank and as such is a low pressure hose. Ferrari tended to use rubber hose with a cotton(?) braid on the outside which makes it difficult to tell if the rubber is degraded. It is normally 2 pieces of hose - one from the carbs and one to the gas tank - with a check valve that allows gas to only flow towards the tanks, not back to the carbs. If in the process of restoring the engine, the hose was inadvertantly installed backwards (or the check valve was installed backwards), pressure would build up between the carbs and check valve possibly rupturing the return line (since it wasn't designed for higher pressure but for free flow). I don't own a 308 anymore so I don't have a way to check but I guessing the hose was 6mm-8mm and generic - not a specific Ferrari part. I have replaced those hoses on my TR and the local dealer does not carry the bulk hose - I got it from a specialty European hose importer. Apparently it is used on VWs as well. Hope that helps....and I hope your client is doing better. | ||
| Ben Millermon (Brainsboy)
Member Username: Brainsboy Post Number: 275 Registered: 5-2001 |
How did the fire happen? | ||
| Jay Feigenbaum (Lawyerjay)
New member Username: Lawyerjay Post Number: 2 Registered: 4-2003 |
I am an attorney who is not sophisticated in cars or Ferrari's. I represent a client who was severely burned in a fire while restoring a 1976 Ferrari 308GTB. A claim is being made that gas leaked from a fuel return line. I am interested in learning a little about the emissions control system and fuel return line specifically, especially the size of that line and where I can get one. Your reply is greatly appreciated. I can be reached at [email protected] or by phone (probably easiest) during the day at 516-433-3000 - ask for Jay. Thank you very much |