| Author |
Message |
Gary Reed (Gary_reed)
Junior Member
Username: Gary_reed
Post Number: 70
Registered: 2-2002
| | Posted on Wednesday, May 07, 2003 - 7:06 pm: | |
My 308 QV had a water pump seize up suddenly and it melted the belt. There was no warning signs at all. I was returning home from a car show in Canada and had to have the car towed home from over 70 miles away. I upgraded it to a rebuilt 328 pump. |
Hans E. Hansen (4re_gt4)
Intermediate Member
Username: 4re_gt4
Post Number: 1229
Registered: 4-2002
| | Posted on Wednesday, May 07, 2003 - 3:58 pm: | |
Also, check George Evans. I bought a new one from him for $300, if I remember correctly. Hmmmm..... Might have been $350. |
Verell Boaen (Verell)
Member
Username: Verell
Post Number: 701
Registered: 5-2001
| | Posted on Monday, May 05, 2003 - 5:14 pm: | |
Coachi,
t.Rutlands tried to discourage me from buying a rebuild kit also. I stuck to my guns & got the kit. Rebuild was a piece of cake. Took maybe 2-3 hours, 2/3 of which is cleaning up the housing. It's been fine for 2-1/2 years.
The water rebuild tech tip in ths web site describes the pump varients and general rebuild procedure:
http://www.r-design.net/308/techtips.htm
Search the archives for a few key extra tips I gave another person, or contact me offline. Do this BEFORE you try to remove the inner bearing or you may ruin the pump casing.
Once you've got the front bearing out, measure it with a caliper or mm calibrated ruler. Then remove the impeller & measure the diameter of the ceramic rings that form the seal. These are the 2 measurements you need to figure out which bearings & seal you have. The measurements don't even have to be super precise as there's a substantial difference in the bearing & seal sizes.
Alternatively, contact Steve (see his post early in this thread) and find out how to have the 'Flying Dutchman' rebuild yours.
|
Dr. I. M. Ibrahim (Coachi)
Member
Username: Coachi
Post Number: 261
Registered: 5-2002
| | Posted on Monday, May 05, 2003 - 4:21 pm: | |
and the next question, will the pulley off my 79 308 GTS fit over the shaft of the newer 328 water pump? |
Dr. I. M. Ibrahim (Coachi)
Member
Username: Coachi
Post Number: 260
Registered: 5-2002
| | Posted on Monday, May 05, 2003 - 1:56 pm: | |
well, got the pump out, only one cam cover needed to come out...and it is frozen solid. Got in pump,got in touch with Rutland's they said switch to a 328 pump for $468.00. They said that the varience in 308 opumps makes buying the rebuild kit difficult, have to measure bearings etc. Anyone know of a reasonable place where they rebuilt those things...or do i buy the $468.00 pump? |
Dr. I. M. Ibrahim (Coachi)
Member
Username: Coachi
Post Number: 259
Registered: 5-2002
| | Posted on Sunday, May 04, 2003 - 6:43 am: | |
I don't think i ran it too long in the hot zone. Five minutes, 7 tops. I let it cool down for a half hour or so, added water to expansion tank, started again, it ran great. Taking it apart...and keeping my fingers crossed. Thanks for all the input. |
Steve (Steve)
Member
Username: Steve
Post Number: 365
Registered: 2-2001
| | Posted on Saturday, May 03, 2003 - 12:20 pm: | |
Dr. looks like you cooked it. Hope you did not run to long in the hot zone. You mise well start taking it apart.As I mention before I'm done with the WP and doing a 15k with belts now . Good luck. |
Dr. I. M. Ibrahim (Coachi)
Member
Username: Coachi
Post Number: 256
Registered: 5-2002
| | Posted on Saturday, May 03, 2003 - 10:37 am: | |
i think the pump is frozen...as the belt did not just snap, it melted before it finally pulled apart...and the temperature went off the gauge (had to tap the gauge when the car colled down to get the dial unstuck) and of course the red alternator light came on... unfortunately, i did not see it quickly enough since the steering wheel hides the light...anyhow, when time permits, i will take things apart and will post my finding... i doubt a belt will work, the pulley seems frozen but who knows...thanks for all the posts gentlemen...any other information, websites etc...would be welcome to say the least. |
Steve (Steve)
Member
Username: Steve
Post Number: 360
Registered: 2-2001
| | Posted on Friday, May 02, 2003 - 7:29 pm: | |
Mine just froze up without warning. Melted the belt and the temp. started going up. Had to limp it home but this happened just befor Christmas so it was cold and I was able to coast and stay fairly cool. Belt melted around WP and crank pulley. The WP pulley would not turn . Took everything apart to do the replacement and for the extra $125 over the cost of the bearing/seal set it was worth getting it done.I think you will find it easy to get to after you remove the timing belt covers or about a 10 hr. job. Good luck |
Andrew A. Illes (Andyilles)
New member
Username: Andyilles
Post Number: 20
Registered: 10-2002
| | Posted on Friday, May 02, 2003 - 4:53 pm: | |
Verell - I don't disagree with you at all, that CAN happen. I just said that before the good Dr. Ibrahim spends money, see if a new belt takes care of it... "If it ain't broke..." Ya know? |
Verell Boaen (Verell)
Member
Username: Verell
Post Number: 692
Registered: 5-2001
| | Posted on Friday, May 02, 2003 - 4:16 pm: | |
Andrew,
My 308 QV's inner water pump bearing siezed up just long enough for the belt to melt itself all around the water pump drive pulley.
However, luckily I was very close to home & didn't overheat. After it cooled down, the water pump felt fine. I finally decided the belt must have been just enough to melt itself by slipping. - WRONG.
A month later I saw coolant dripping out of the water pump's weep hole. When I dissasembled the pump, the inner ball bearings had ground themselves down to about 1/2 size! However, during all this the bearings were quiet.
A water pump rebuilding kit is only about $100 from T.Rutlands. Search the archives, there are a lot of posts including pointers to some web sites w/water pump rebuilding instructins. This includes how to recognise which of the 4 flavors of bearings & seals you have. So many cars have had their waterpumps replaced that it isn't safe to assume that the pump matches your car's year/model.
Since you have a '79 308, the lower part of the cam covers may overlap the water pump enough so that you'll either have to remove them or grind some material away to give you clearance to get the pump out. |
Andrew A. Illes (Andyilles)
New member
Username: Andyilles
Post Number: 17
Registered: 10-2002
| | Posted on Friday, May 02, 2003 - 3:50 pm: | |
Dear Dr.
Before you spend money unecessarily, be aware that sometimes belts break because they just seem to want to break. A broken belt is no sure sign that anything necessarily "froze-up". Before you invest in a new pump, just replace the belt and see how the car runs. Bad 308 water pumps on the verge of failing usually make a metallic "tinkle, tinkle" sound for a while after start-up, and I've never seen one freeze up. |
Dr. I. M. Ibrahim (Coachi)
Member
Username: Coachi
Post Number: 255
Registered: 5-2002
| | Posted on Friday, May 02, 2003 - 3:11 pm: | |
SOUNDS EASY ENOUGH...thanks for the input guys...anyone else? |
Steve (Steve)
Member
Username: Steve
Post Number: 359
Registered: 2-2001
| | Posted on Friday, May 02, 2003 - 1:38 pm: | |
I just had my 77 rebuilt from the "Flying Dutchmen" for $225. He has off the shelves avail or he can rebuild yours. Also you can go to the various parts people and buy the rebuild kit and do it yourself. |
TomD (Tifosi)
Advanced Member
Username: Tifosi
Post Number: 3485
Registered: 9-2001
| | Posted on Friday, May 02, 2003 - 12:25 pm: | |
jeff in the UK prob has them, if you don't want to wait, other sponsors carry them - normally you just need new bearings |
Dr. I. M. Ibrahim (Coachi)
Member
Username: Coachi
Post Number: 254
Registered: 5-2002
| | Posted on Friday, May 02, 2003 - 12:12 pm: | |
this morning, after a five minute drive, i heard some noise, followed by temperature rise and alternator light coming on. I realized that the belt must have broken, drove right back to my garage...and by then the expansion tank blew and steam was coming outeverywhere. Let it cool down, found the broken belt but too hot to see if water pump was frozen or alternator. I suspect the water pump. It seems quite easy to get to (1979 308 GTS) and replace. Where can one buy one at a reasonable price? Probably need new gaskets, and a new belt of course. Any suggestions as to what do next? Thanks. |