| Author | Message | ||
| Bill Sebestyen (Bill308)
|
Anthony, I live in Windsor, less than a mile off Exit 39 of I-91. Email me when you'd like to stop by. Bill | ||
| magoo (Magoo)
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Anthony, You have seen various opinions here. Bills 308 is not necessarily a stereotype of what your car is. It sounds like the car you are considering has been cared for and has had some of the emission controls removed. You still have the distributor functioning properly and not worried about a faulty electronic ignition. Have your mechanic check the car out, if it comes up for sale,and make a judgement then. If you still want the car make a offer based on the removal of the emission parts. The person who is selling it knows that and probably expects it. Just because Bills car was that bad doesn't mean that yours will be. Don't run scared, Check it out first. You may find a good deal and a good car. | ||
| Anthony Acunzo (Yank05)
|
Bill, Thank you for your very detailed description of what you had to go through with your 308. ..kind of scared me! My mistake - yes, it is 25 years in CT. Where do you reside? I would love to see your car sometime, if it is not any trouble. I am in the New Haven area. Thanks again, Anthony | ||
| Bill Sebestyen (Bill308)
|
Anthony, I have a 78 308 GTS and also live in CT. It is my understanding cars are exempt from emissions testing after 25 years, not 20. When I bought my car it also didn�t have emissions equipment. Being new to the world of Ferrari it took me about 9-months to procure all the necessary equipment. Let me try and itemize some of the associated costs. Ball-park costs (from memory - some day I�ll actually add up all the receipts) for the emissions system on my 308 *2 cat cores $200 *2 used factory pipes used $200 *Cats cores sent out to be re-cored $200 *A very nice used factory exhaust system from a Ferrarichat contributor, with 2 good cats, all studs and springs and the 2-pipes to replace an existing, fair ANSA euro exhaust $550 *2 spring based muffler mounts used $50 *air injection manifolds (bought 2 sets and used the set that fit best-very tough to put on in the car � The input tubes to air injector manifolds on my car were severed and welded shut) $600 *2-used air injectors (one damaged during removal for inspection and cleaning) $40 *bought a rebuilt air pump (only 1 on a 78) $80 *used pulley for pump, heat shield, and 180 degree tube from a burned 308 $125 *used cast aluminum bracket, adjuster bracket, new pivot pin with all the necessary spacers and washers for *air pump $250 *used vapor canister $85 *Used evacuation fan $60 *Pulley on the end of the cam to drive the air pump $50 *Belt to drive the pump $15 *Various check valves-used $125 *Diverter valve (not a GM part on a 78, it�s Italian) bought 3 used ones before I got it right $150 *Electrovalves 2-required used $50 *Miscellaneous support brackets and hardware to support the air injection system components $75 *New Air Check valves to front and rear air injection manifolds (GM parts) $35 *Spherical vacuum tank $50 *A used DCNF carb to relace one with a bent mixture adjustment needle that destroyed the threads used $100 *Several sets of main and idle jets, air correctors, and rebuild kits for all carbs $250 I still need to get some vacuum hose and air delivery hose for the air injection system and get it operational. The trap door assembly in the air filter housing and its actuator are not there and won�t be replaced. Ignition system My stock distributors were converted to XR-700�s by a previous owner. I didn�t know this before I also purchased a couple of new sets of XR-700�s with matching coils ($175 � the new ones are available if anyone is interested). It became apparent that the advance mechanisms in my distributors weren�t operating properly because of corroded springs, a missing bearing, and generally ratty looking internal parts. I couldn�t find anyone who had the necessary advance springs (they�re very fine compression springs) or anyone locally who could set up the distributors. Just try to find someone who can set up distributors with XR-700�s on a distributor machine. Not many shops even have distributor machines anymore. In fact I bought a Sun machine from a guy in Washington state to try and solve this problem (any body want a distributor machine?) only to learn I would have to retrofit points to be able to set the advance curves and then reinstall the XR-700�s to again eliminate the points. Now mind you, the objective is to make both distributors act the same (i.e. identical advance curves). Eventually I bit the bullet and installed an Electromotive HPB-1 crank triggered system and fabricated blanking plates to seal the ends of the cam covers where the distributors used to be (about $1500 with machining of the damper, and carbon core spark plug wires). If I can learn to use my new digital camera I�ll post some pictures of the ignition system if anyone is interested. Now I have some freedom to dial in a reasonable advance curve with a screwdriver and be assured that both banks will behave identically. I hope this helps in estimating bare bones parts costs when evaluating whether to buy a 308 for use in a state where you have to deal with emissions. As a DIY�er, labor and research costs were 0 (I work cheap). By the way, the contractor who runs the state emissions testing has been under a lot of heat over the last 2-years for illegally passing non-conforming cars. A number of people have actually gone to jail because of this. There�s no way for someone to sneak through the system in CT anymore. They even have cameras at the inspection stations. On the other hand, the 25-year exemption is coming up for me in a couple of years. Is all this effort worth it? Well if I could do it again, I�d be a lot more careful. On the other hand, I�ve learned an awful lot. One might say I�ve become intimate with my 308. If you found this monologue entertaining I�ll post another sometime. Now off to do a weekend of sailboat racing. Bill | ||
| magoo (Magoo)
|
I know buddy, No feathers ruffled here. I was just saying that it certainly had to be a quote from the hip. BGRDS. Magoo | ||
| Randy Ines (Raines)
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Sorry, Magoo. Didn't mean to ruffle your feathers. Don't worry, my message wasn't meant to discourage Anthony. I only shared my experience and options I had at the time. BTW, the mechanic gave it some thought before he quoted that price. As a matter of fact, he pointed out every part that needed to be replaced. Of course, he charged me $75 just to literally look around the engine bay. | ||
| magoo (Magoo)
|
Randy, I don't want to sound confrontational but, that is out of line. You can buy Cats. that are free flow at just about any auto store at a reasonable price. The air pump is a G.M. located at your nearest salvage yard. The A.I.R. pump bracket you would have to locate on line or at some Ferrari salvage yard. The tubes and lines if they are missing can also be picked up at a salvage yard or order new ones which is probably best. I think your Tech. quoted you a price off of the top of his head which was not reasonable. Of course this is not to say that you are quoting the price it just seems like the Tech. didn't put much thought into it. BRGDS | ||
| magoo (Magoo)
|
Anthony, I don't know if you are a DIYer but if the car is that nice and it's a 77 you could pick up pieces by shopping around to get you through a inspection. I certainly wouldn't be worried about the single distributor conversion. Also use the emission sytem removal as a bargaining price to compensate for you having to replace it. | ||
| Randy Ines (Raines)
|
Anthony, I agree with all that was said. My '81 308 is missing the air pump (and housing) as well, and has a modified distributor system. After failing emissions, my local Ferrari mechanic said it would cost 10 big ones to find parts, cost of labor, to install everything needed to pass emmissions in my state...What?!!!!!! I thought my only options were to pay or sell the car - NOT! Two words...Inspection Friendly. | ||
| Anthony Acunzo (Yank05)
|
Thanks for the input. I live in Connecticut. The vehicle is exempt from emissions here (after 20yrs). Dave (Jones) my intentions are to use the car as a driver (but I still like to keep things pretty much original). I will not rush the purchase. It's just that I have looked at some 308s with all kinds of leaks, trashy interiors, etc. and this one was beautiful, driven regularly, maintained by a top repair facility in New England, with all tools and original owner's manual. It's only the ignition thing and the smog equipment that kind of struck me wrong. | ||
| David Jones (Dave)
|
Anthony, what are your intentions for the car? If you are going to show the car, then you will lose points during judging with the changes mentioned, so it would be better off getting a car in stock condition. If you are looking for a driver, then what the H. I converted my daily driver 77 308gtb to a single Distr. electronic ignition and don't regret it one bit.... Great performance upgrade, and saves $$$ on tune ups... By the way, there are 2 air pumps on a 77 308, one for each bank, most disconnect the one on top that they can see plainly, and forget, or don't even know about the one below the Radiator reservoir tank. Dave L is also right about checking on smog gear in your state. The car will be 25 years old next year and exempt from smog certification in most states... At any rate, don't get in a hurry to buy, it took me 6 months to find the right car for me, make sure that you find the right car for You....  | ||
| '75 308 GT4 (Peter)
|
The air-pumps, check and diverter valves are all GM parts, but the various plumbing and brackets are Ferrari specific. The GM parts are not that expensive, but the F parts.... Just removing the pump is not a good way of disabling the emissions system, the air-injectors should be removed as well (they'll degrade from the heat and can cause other problems). Parts are still avaliable for single distributor systems, but I don't know how readilly avaliable they are here in North America. You don't want to know how much one distributor costs (and you'll need two if you wanted to convert). Keep what works. Better to upgrade the points to electronic, but keep the single distributor. | ||
| Dave L (Davel)
|
Where do you live? Do you know if you will have to have it smogged. The parts for smog equipment are expensive. Also a single distributor is not a bad thing. It was found on european models. ALso consider upgrading to an electronic ignition. Going back to a twin distributor would be fairly expensive for parts and the labor. If the car runs good now, why fix it if it aint broke | ||
| Anthony Acunzo (Yank05)
|
Hi. First of all I want to thank everyone for their help in answering my questions as I search for a carb. version 308. I came across a '77 308 GTB that just might be up for sale soon. I have some concerns. The air pump had been removed some time ago by the previous owner and discarded. I know many people disconnect them, but should I be concerned that the car will not come with one at all? Also, the ignition system was changed to a single dist. system. What would be the cost to get the ignition back to original specs and how much do air pumps cost(if at all a concern)? I am a stickler for originality. Other than these "probelms" the car seems to be exceptional and is meticulously maintained and driven like it should be. Of course, if it does come up for sale I will have my mechanic check it out, but in the mean time I am trying to see if my concerns are valid (or expensive). Thank you. |