| Author |
Message |
david schirmer (David)
| | Posted on Friday, September 07, 2001 - 11:14 pm: | |
Gene, I don't know the exact count for a '79 but it sounds like approximately the same. The fuses were 8,16,and 25 amp. With any luck you still have the plastic fuse panel covers. On top of them they identify each fuse value. I just did my count off those and then bought a few extra. |
'75 308 GT4 (Peter)
| | Posted on Friday, September 07, 2001 - 7:43 pm: | |
Those fuses are GBC-type and can be found at any good auto parts store. These are commonly used on Volkswagen and other German cars.
I replaced mine with these glass-type right away when I got my car. |
Herbert Edward Gault (Irfgt)
| | Posted on Friday, September 07, 2001 - 5:27 pm: | |
Having owned several Triumph motorcycles I understand the uneasy feeling never knowing what will quit next. I have always heard that if the British had invented the Computer they would have found a way to make it leak Castrol. |
Paul Sloan (Sloan83qv)
| | Posted on Friday, September 07, 2001 - 2:42 pm: | |
After driving Trimuph motorcycles for years one gets real good at driving in the dark.
The old joke goes: Why do Brits drink warm beer?
A. Lucas Refridgeration |
Gene B. Radcliffe - 308 GTS (Brcbank)
| | Posted on Friday, September 07, 2001 - 11:40 am: | |
David, you say in passing that you switched out the ceramic fuses for glass Buss fuses. Sounds like that would be a great ides. Any problems with fit or sizing? The parts manual for my 1979 308 GTS, TAV 117, indicates (9) 8 Amp, (5) 16 Amp and (5) 25 Amp fuses. Is that what you found? Did you have to do any substituting? |
david schirmer (David)
| | Posted on Thursday, September 06, 2001 - 11:43 pm: | |
AAAAHHHHHH! That does it, I'm getting a Honda!
BTW Shakedown cruise tonight was a success. I don't know if it was my imagination, but I could swear the car started easier, ran better and my headlights and dashboard lights were a tad brighter. Maybe it was just the cleaned and checked contacts. |
'75 308 GT4 (Peter)
| | Posted on Thursday, September 06, 2001 - 6:38 pm: | |
David, while you're at it, you might as well ditch your rad fans, and dashboard toggle switches, as they're Lucas too! J
My Dad at one time had a 1951 Ariel VCH 500 racing motorcycle which he converted for road-use, it used all Lucas components and swears he never had one problem with it. |
david schirmer (David)
| | Posted on Thursday, September 06, 2001 - 10:06 am: | |
Gerrit, that is a pretty cool idea. I like the fact that you can enlarge any section you want for detail. Very useful for those of us with aging eyesight. (Still using my original stock eyeballs...) |
david schirmer (David)
| | Posted on Thursday, September 06, 2001 - 9:58 am: | |
Votes are in, switch is out. I removed it last night and checked it out. I couldn't get it to fail but as I was looking it over I found the answer. On the bottom it had the mark of the beast. Yes, Lucas Prince of Darkness had manufactured my kill switch! I have exorcised my car and made sure all my battery connections are solid and clean. I also replaced my ceramic fuses with Buss glass fuses. I haven't done a shakedown run yet, but I hope to tonight. Thanks all for the great tips and tidbits. |
Gerrit Visser (Gerritv)
| | Posted on Wednesday, September 05, 2001 - 7:44 pm: | |
My old eyes also couldn't deal with that diagram. So I scanned it and created a .pdf file. Plots very nicely on a DesignJet 450. It is from manual 124/76 for a 1976 Euro 308 GT4.
See http://members.home.net/gviss/308GT4/WiringDiagram.pdf. |
'75 308 GT4 (Peter)
| | Posted on Tuesday, September 04, 2001 - 10:25 pm: | |
That wiring diagram is hard on the eyes. I went and made many enlarged photocopies of it. Whenever I need to trace some wires, I pull out a copy and follow the lines with a coloured pen (same colour as the wire. This makes things SO MUCH easier). |
Herbert Edward Gault (Irfgt)
| | Posted on Tuesday, September 04, 2001 - 5:08 pm: | |
What you have is a poor connection inside the shut off switch which was made worse by the additional electrical load of the heater BLOWER MOTORS. The heater itself works by hot water through the core with no electrical connection. |
david schirmer (David)
| | Posted on Tuesday, September 04, 2001 - 9:45 am: | |
Thanks guys, a lot of good ideas to pursue here. Willis, don't worry I can take a joke. (Especially a good one) It would have been serious if everyone was gone and I was still trying to figure out how to get a ride home. Steve, the kill switch was added by a previous owner. I've left it in because it is a handy way to shut off the power when I'm messing around with the car. But it sure sounds like something to maybe reconsider. I do have the owners manual and am learning my way around it. The electrical diagram hurts my eyes. Ben, it seems as though the kill switch could indeed be the culprit. I will say hi to the twins! |
Martin (Miami348ts)
| | Posted on Tuesday, September 04, 2001 - 9:33 am: | |
I had a similar problem.
My batterie cable was broken where it connects to the plug that fits on the battery pole. Hope you understand what I mean. It looked okay but was broken and if you do not get full juice it will not do anything.
Bad situation. Miami Beach in front of a night club showing off and the car does not start....so much for being cool! |
Steve Magnusson (91tr)
| | Posted on Tuesday, September 04, 2001 - 9:07 am: | |
David,
First, if you don't have the proper (year version/model) Owner's Manual -- get one! If you've already got one -- read it! (It really has a lot of good technical info, like how the heater system works, and it has a good wiring schematic too).
If by "dead" you mean that absolutely every electrical system was not working then I think you need to check/clean all the primary battery connections -- i.e., positive cable at battery, positive cable at starter (which has multiple wires on a single post), negative cable at battery, negative cable to chassis, and the kill switch (Is this something you or a previous Owner added? -- I didn't think carbed 308s had this feature stock).
If by "dead" you mean the car would crank on the starter, but not start (and a lot of other stuff wasn't working like windows, fuel pump, etc.), then I would focus on the fuseblock itself. See:
http://209.196.179.161/discus/messages/112/1470.html?
for some discussion. Good luck with the fix... |
Willis Huang (Willis360)
| | Posted on Tuesday, September 04, 2001 - 12:39 am: | |
Hey David,
I must appologize about that joke I made about your car not able to "multi-task" when you mentioned the problem to me at the show. I had no idea how serious the problem was. |
Ben Lobenstein 90 TR (Benjet)
| | Posted on Tuesday, September 04, 2001 - 12:32 am: | |
David -
While I've almost no experience in 3xx Ferrari's. I would gather (as with MOST if not all cars) the heater is basically a radiator (getting heat from the engine/water/coolant) with (electric/fused) fans blowing the air thru the unit (called a heater core) and into the cabin. So if you blast the heat (temp and fan full & hot) when you first start the car you will NOT get hot air (this is best tried at night or cold morning, etc. and with ANY car too) until the engine has warmed up at least slightly (I'd guess at least 2 mins.).
Now onto the bigger problem. That kill switch tends to become a problem (even in Race cars), read a snip here:
http://209.196.179.161/discus/messages/112/814.html?
I could swear we have had a discussion about this before but couldn't locate any further mention of it.
Here is the quick test:
get a test light ($10 at any auto parts store) locate 2 test points as follows: a convienient hot (positive) like the starter connection (or the incoming power cable to the fusebox) and any motor ground/neagtive (in the engine bay or fusebox NOT at the battery). This should light up the test light, and you should be able to start the car. Test the same points when the failure occurs and car not running (assuming it does again) if no light then you have NO power from the battery coming through the switch to the car, and the switch is bad. If it stays lit then maybe you have other problems like bad connections in your fuse box (don't we ALL have that?). Start there.
And I'm hard pressed to find the 2 (heater and car power) problems related. Hope this helps.
-Ben
P.S. Say hello to both of the twins for me, thanks. J |
david schirmer (David)
| | Posted on Monday, September 03, 2001 - 10:45 pm: | |
Actually I wasn't joking. I was starting to think that maybe there was some sort of heater element because of the 25A fuse. I don't know much about electrical stuff so I couldn't figure out what the heater circuit was. So are there actually heater elements along with these fans, or is it just fans blowing hot air from the engine? (Not joking, I'm still not quite clear on this) Incidentally, at the time of my electrical failure, I wasn't running the fans, I just had the temperature turned to hot. I didn't get a chance to look things over today. (Because I was busy writing novels on the internet). So hopefully I get a chance this week to investigate further. |
'75 308 GT4 (Peter)
| | Posted on Monday, September 03, 2001 - 9:45 pm: | |
I was there last year, but I almost didn't make it to that show either! (The week before my alternator went!)
I can't tell if you're joking or not, but yes, your car has a heater, in fact two of them, on either side in the front compartment, beside the wheel-wells. This fuse would be for the heater fans. |
david schirmer (David)
| | Posted on Monday, September 03, 2001 - 8:55 pm: | |
Heath, you know I was going to make some comment about having a British electrical system but I didn't want to start any trouble. |
david schirmer (David)
| | Posted on Monday, September 03, 2001 - 8:52 pm: | |
Steve, I do tend to overlook the most important details. 1977 308 GTB. Sorry about that.
Peter, Yes it was the pier 62/63 show. I seem to remember your car maybe being there last year? As far as the kill switch, I have a trickle charger for the battery. The kill switch is turned off when I am storing the car with the trickle charger doing its thing. The idea is to prevent electrical mishaps when the car is unsupervised and plugged in. It is one of those rotary on/off switches.
As I've been thinking about this I have a question regarding the heater fuse. Is there actually a heater? I figured that the heat was somehow coming from engine heat, but maybe this isn't so. |
HEATH VAUGHN (Heath)
| | Posted on Monday, September 03, 2001 - 8:40 pm: | |
FOR THE LAST 30 YEARS I HAD AT LEAST ONE SPORTS CAR MOSTLY ENGLISH UNTIL I MARRIED MY FERRARI. SO I ASK YOU WHATS THE PROBLEM, SOUNDS NORMAL TO ME. |
Steve Magnusson (91tr)
| | Posted on Monday, September 03, 2001 - 8:20 pm: | |
David -- nice narrative, but give us a hint -- which model/year/version? |
'75 308 GT4 (Peter)
| | Posted on Monday, September 03, 2001 - 1:59 pm: | |
Ditch the kill switch. See what happens after that.
Was this the show at Pier 62/63? I wanted to go, but stayed home and got alot done on my car (more important). |
david schirmer (David)
| | Posted on Monday, September 03, 2001 - 1:28 pm: | |
I went to a neat little Italian Car show yesterday. It was a little cold in the morning so I had the heater on and was just cruising into town. As I went through a tunnel I turned on my headlights and the engine just jolted, as if it was going to cut out. It didn't, but it was a sign of gremlins on the loose.
I arrived at the show and backed into my assigned parking space. My window was down and the heater was cranking, I had my lovely assistant lower her window. I noticed that it was moving slowly and then the whole car went dead. No electric and no motor! Fortunately, I was parked in place so there was no frantic pushing scene. I knew the guys on either side of me and let them know my plight, and like the true helpful Ferrari Guys they are, they had a good laugh at my expense. I kind of figured I had blown a fuse, so I started checking out the panel. Since Diane had been rolling down the window I looked for that fuse first. Well, of course the fuse that had actually blown was the heater fuse! I have the old style ceramic things and I just happened to have a spare 25A fuse that had been given to me due to an earlier electrical misadventure. (Thanks Ferrari of Seattle). I replaced the fuse and... nothing. Still no power.
OK, so now I was a little concerned. What if I won best of show and I couldn't start my car? Fortunatly there was a gentleman there with a car that had more history in one lug nut than every car I've ever owned. At any rate, he saved me from any embarassment by winning best of show. His car started and ran beautifully. But of course I still needed to get home.
I was kind of puzzled until I thought that maybe my kill switch had some kind of circuit breaker. I opened up the front bonnet to check it out. One of the helpful Ferrari Guys said, "Hey David, the engine's in the back." This is what I like about this helpful caring community. After taking the requisite abuse, I turned the kill switch off and on and... presto, electricity back on!
I didn't start the car until the end of the day because I wanted something to look forward to. Plus if it didn't start, I wouldn't really enjoy the show because I would be trying to fix my stupid car. At the end of the show the car started (whew!) and I drove home.
Here's what's weird. The car was running a little ratty. And then at one point the tach and speedo just went nuts. The needles swung wildly no matter what speed I was going. Then just as suddenly everything became normal. Maybe I hit a bump. I am going to check out my fuses and wires. I also am going to get some more spare fuses. Any other ideas? |
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