| Author | Message | ||
| JPM (John_308qv)
Junior Member Username: John_308qv Post Number: 128 Registered: 4-2001 |
An update. The fuel injectors on the front bank were corroded. The car still has a slight miss and the mechanic is going to clean the fuel distributor in hopes of fixing the problem. He said that there was probably water in the gas that caused the corrosion. I fill the car full of gas, add Stabil and run the car for about 20 miles and top of the tank prior to storing it for the winter. Could the combination of bad fuel and winter storage corrode the injectors and fuel distributor? Has anyone here had this problem? | ||
| Gary Reed (Gary_reed)
Junior Member Username: Gary_reed Post Number: 77 Registered: 2-2002 |
John, My '83 QV easily passes the smog test when the cats are in (and the airpump isn't even hooked up). I would check out all your sparkplugs to see if any need replacing and then dump in a bottle of Chevron Techroline Injection cleaner in the gas tank. I use a bottle of it a couple times a year to keep the injection system clean. | ||
| David Harris (Dakharris)
Junior Member Username: Dakharris Post Number: 170 Registered: 6-2001 |
My '85 QV wouldn't pass smog in CA. It had a vacuum leak--due to metal fatigue. That prevented it from idling steady, as the emissions test requires. It needed an oxygen sensor. It needed a new catalytic converter. Tweeking could consist of playing with the spark, adjusting the valves and individually micro-metering the K-Jets, which is labor intensive. Be very careful of fuel injector cleaning fuel additives. They can clog your cat. | ||
| JRV (Jrvall)
Intermediate Member Username: Jrvall Post Number: 1457 Registered: 11-2002 |
The "Proper" CIS Injector Testing/Cleaning/Diagnoising Tools: 1- pressurized tank w/cleaning solution 2- adapters for any system 3- CIS Injector hooked to Testing & Cleaning Tool 4- Testing -Cleaning -Diagnoising Tool With the "proper" Tools and "knowledge" CIS Injectors and Systems can be throughly tested and cleaned and quality diagnoisis performed. Thus insuring accurate and profesional repairs without the need for guessing or simply throwing money at a suspected problem. Any quality, profesional shop should have these tools, (as well as several others not shown) and use them in diagnoising Injection System Problems. My experience using "tools" has shown that Ferrari Injectors will easily last 50K miles and beyond, when properly serviced.  | ||
| Keith Mahan (Gyrokeith)
New member Username: Gyrokeith Post Number: 5 Registered: 4-2003 |
Whoops! I guess I should THOROUGHLY check my spelling. | ||
| Keith Mahan (Gyrokeith)
New member Username: Gyrokeith Post Number: 4 Registered: 4-2003 |
I guess times haven't changed much. I seems everybody wants to jump at the fuel system, like it's some catch-all for problems. You probably answered your own problem by saying it developed a miss at low speed. My experience with those types of problems end up %99.9 of the time to be spark related. I'm wrestling with a spark loss on one bank after a long heat up cycle (15 min.) I'm pretty sure one of the crank position sensors has an intermitten thermal failure. I've been unable to run the car and confirm this in the last few weeks because of the bad weather and overtime. Always thouroughly recheck the entire ignition system before messing with the fuel. High voltage has a way of deteriorating parts and the best fuel system in the world will seem like trouble if you don't properly ignite that petrol. Start with the coil fusing and work your way out to the spark plugs. If the problem exists at cold start AND is still there after a thourough warmup, the fuel system isn't likely to be the problem. I'm not saying it isn't a fuel delivery problem. Just recheck that spark! | ||
| Tom Gehring (Tomg)
New member Username: Tomg Post Number: 20 Registered: 5-2002 |
JRV, The residual pressure would only hold for about 30 sec when the gauge was between the control regulator and fuel distributor. Using the pressure gauge on the line direct from the pump confirmed that the problem was not the check valve or accumulator (the usual suspects) so I had a system leak somewhere. Injectors were the fist things I checked since they were easy to access. I pulled the 4 rear bank injectors reconnected them to the lines. Pulled the test plug at the fuel distributor to run the pump and pressurize the system. I was getting a drip about every 5-10 sec from 3 of the 4 injectors. With that info I just went ahead and replaced all the injectors. BTW I was chasing a hot start problem not an emissions problem. My point was just that injectors can go south on a relatively low mileage car. I think age may be as important as mileage in some cases. | ||
| JPM (John_308qv)
Junior Member Username: John_308qv Post Number: 126 Registered: 4-2001 |
Thanks for the replies! Good to know I�m not going crazy. It just didn�t make much sense to go through extra measures for emission testing. Don�t mind replacing the injectors and will give the mechanic the benefit of the doubt. The car has 34k miles on it and not driven much by the PO. Steve, I am going to ask about that HR valve. I might have written it down wrong. We shall see. John | ||
| JRV (Jrvall)
Intermediate Member Username: Jrvall Post Number: 1451 Registered: 11-2002 |
>>Also notice I said mine were leaking while under pressure. << Didn't remember you stating "leaking under pressure", how did you determine they were "leaking under pressure" ? | ||
| Tom Gehring (Tomg)
New member Username: Tomg Post Number: 19 Registered: 5-2002 |
Notice I said I don't agree with the statement "almost NEVER". I did NOT say it was the cause of the problem. Also notice I said mine were leaking while under pressure. I am not saying to throw money at the problem. Diagnosis is the key. | ||
| JRV (Jrvall)
Intermediate Member Username: Jrvall Post Number: 1448 Registered: 11-2002 |
>>Not sure I agree with this. The QV is almost 20 year old now. The car sits a lot (i.e. coming out of winter storage) and if the injectors have never been replaced, << Injector Replacement advice should be the LAST part of a "quality" diagnoisis imo...AFTER a "quality" evaluation has been performed imo. Those same Bosch injectors see 100K miles rountinely on cars across the spectrum. Sometimes just trowing money and parts is the cheapest avenue...such as throwing new plugs in to "see: if they help but other problems are veryexpensive to solve with the money throwing, by guess or by golly method of diagnoisis, however, if you think throwing money first and diagnoising second works best for you, go for it. | ||
| Tom Gehring (Tomg)
New member Username: Tomg Post Number: 18 Registered: 5-2002 |
>>Injectors under 50K miles old almost NEVER need replacing.<< Not sure I agree with this. The QV is almost 20 year old now. The car sits a lot (i.e. coming out of winter storage) and if the injectors have never been replaced, they are still the steel injectors. You cannot even get the steel injectors anymore. Bosch discovered they had an injector corrosion problem with the original injectors and have superceded the part with a brass injector. I replaced all the injectors on my '83 last year after I found them leaking under pressure. The car had 29K on it but does sit in the garage during winters. Just my $0.02 | ||
| Dave328GTB (Hardtop)
Member Username: Hardtop Post Number: 548 Registered: 1-2002 |
Complete BS. I had 2 QV's which always passed our tests with EASE and we have to put them on a chasis dyno for testing. The last one passed even with O2 sensor disconnected. Dave | ||
| JRV (Jrvall)
Intermediate Member Username: Jrvall Post Number: 1446 Registered: 11-2002 |
>>Sounds like a little BS to me << or a lot...;-) Injectors under 50K miles old almost NEVER need replacing. They may require "cleaning" periodically (every few years in some cases)for cars that are chronic sitters. The most common cause of K-Lamda emmisions failures is 02Sensor/Lambda Computer Relay failure, followed by Thermo Time Sw. Failure, followed by Fuel Pressure Reg Failure. There are Fuel System Cleaning Tools that are plumbed into the system and run high concetratesof cleaner thru the FD & Injectors that should always be tried first, after verifying the electrical parts are working properly. 85's with cats are very clean running engines at thetailpipes and will pass easily in every state when the systems are working correctly and clean. All checking & tweeking should be done before the cat, (thru the provided access port on the exhaust) and the system set to 0.80% CO (02 sensor disconnected) which shouls render a HC # of 125-200 PPMs at idle. After the cat those #'s will be even lower. | ||
| Ben Millermon (Brainsboy)
Member Username: Brainsboy Post Number: 311 Registered: 5-2001 |
John, when I had fuel injection on my ferrari I had problems also after it had sat for some time. The Fuel distributors from what I have been told dont like to just sit. The best thing you can probably do is run 2 or 3 tanks of gas with fuel injection cleaner. I was amazed at what a difference it could make. It cured all my FI problems at that time. You may want to try that before you pay someone else to find the problem. Ben | ||
| Steve Magnusson (91tr)
Intermediate Member Username: 91tr Post Number: 1782 Registered: 1-2001 |
Sounds like a little BS to me (but no direct experience for me on a '85 308QV so glad to accept correction). When warm, a (working) K-Jet with Lambda system runs closed-loop based on the O2 sensor output, so even if the open-loop adjustment is tweaked it wouldn't have any effect on the warm closed-loop running (i.e., in the closed-loop mode, the frequency valve sould add or subtract fuel negating any intentional open-loop tweaks). If you've got a voltmeter, check the output of the O2 sensor when warm at idle (just follow the wiring from the O2 sensor -- it will be the single wire connection -- don't unplug it, but you should be able to hook/touch the voltmeter lead to the metal connector). If everything's quasi-working, it should be banging around between 0.1~0.9V. If it stays pegged at one end or the other then you've got a problem somewhere. PS What's an "HR valve"? | ||
| JPM (John_308qv)
Junior Member Username: John_308qv Post Number: 124 Registered: 4-2001 |
A situation regarding emissions my 85 308qv (U.S. version) has come up that I thought the collective wisdom of this forum could help with. Unfortunately, I live in an area of the country that requires emission testing. The after winter storage, car developed a miss at low RPMs. The ignition wiring, distributors, rotors and extenders are new. I had the local Ferrari mechanic look at it and he said that the fuel injectors, HR valve and check valve need replacing. O.K. fine so far. Then he said that the car needs a special setup to help it pass emissions testing. This threw me. The car has fuel injection, and cats. My prior experience is with Porsches - an 85 944 and an 87 911 Carrera with essentially the same type of setup (Bosch fuel injection and cats). These cars had absolutely no problem passing the local emission tests. I can understand that older carbed cars can have problems with this testing, but I never thought that a 85 U.S. car would have problems that require a special set up. Questions are: 1. 1. Is the mechanic correct that an 85 308 qv needs tweaking to pass emission testing? 2. If so, what would these �tweaks� consist of? 3. How much will these affect performances? Thanks in advance for any advice. John |