| Author | Message | ||
| JRV (Jrvall)
Intermediate Member Username: Jrvall Post Number: 1601 Registered: 11-2002 |
>>if I could keep it in trim. << LOL... the 2 gas used bottled test sample gas also...;-) supplies ususlly aren't a problem...sources/suppliers are availible...yes eventually "planned obsolesence" takes effect. | ||
| DGS (Dgs)
New member Username: Dgs Post Number: 3 Registered: 5-2003 |
"... for bottled gas ... with filter changes ..." That's what makes me leery of a used tester -- getting the supplies to keep it accurate. I'd happily settle for an old Sun 2-gas with the big honkin' analog meters, if I could keep it in trim. But with manufacturers disappearing into the corporate merger black hole, getting calibration supplies (cal gasses, filters, etc.) may be a problem. With a bit of surfing, I think the "Florida site" was TIF Instruments on thomas register, before TIF was snapped up by SPX corp. Today, the TIF site under SPX no longer lists the TIF5GA. Aha. They apparently moved it over to the OTC "Stinger" product line. http://www.otctools.com/frames-catalog.php3 The Tool Warehouse has it at $3,427.61. http://www.thetoolwarehouse.net/shop/OTC-3729.html A company called "Bridge" seems to still carry 2 gas analyzers: http://www.bridgeanalyzers.com/PricePage1.htm Anyone ever heard of them? | ||
| JRV (Jrvall)
Intermediate Member Username: Jrvall Post Number: 1598 Registered: 11-2002 |
>>On the cal question<< My machine for example has a clear/reset function for monthly use to clear and zero the scales only (HC's will start reading high after a few real dirty cars)...then about every 3-12 months depending, it has a port for bottled gas that it sniffs to recal the infrared reader...and resets/calibrates for accuracy. I find my machine retains accuracy with filter changes for very long periods of time and is routinely checked against the states testers and historical my tester is more accurate..ie: the state machines routinely read lower emmisions. On those prices...a new 5 gas hand held could easily be $6700 if not more ....but the DIY'er has no need to read NOx...for the DIY'er really only CO & HC are neccesary, a DIY'er doesn't even need CO2 or Ox, however 2 gas analyzers have passed into history long ago (although I have one (analouge) in the corner of course :-)) for the hobbyist/DIY'er a used bench only 4 gas is all the tool they would need and overkill at that...my Big Allen is 5 yrs old and service is no problem...here's a pic of what I use:  | ||
| DGS (Dgs)
New member Username: Dgs Post Number: 2 Registered: 5-2003 |
Price is good question, at the moment. I had seen it for $2500 on a Florida web page that seems to be gone. Most other sites listing it don't have price, but Google finds a PDF of indeterminate age at geneq listing the TIF5GA at $6795 ... which is way too much. On the cal question, I misspoke (sic) -- I meant to ask about calibrations on the EGA -- the gas testers. I've seen kits to calibrate the CO reading. Presumably the HC reading needs to be aligned from time to time as well. Looking for emissions test gear on the web is like trying to push a rope uphill. Nobody seems to admit to manufacturing these things, other than a couple of sites in Germany or Japan. All sorts of oddball specialty auto equipment gets marketed for the home user -- but gas testers seem to be a glaring exception. | ||
| JRV (Jrvall)
Intermediate Member Username: Jrvall Post Number: 1585 Registered: 11-2002 |
>>Any opinions on the TIF5GA (http://www.geneq.com/catalog/en/tif5ga.htm) for the home shop?<< Looks good and has full spectrum (5 gas) capture. Before plunking my money down however I'd want a good look at the 'gas sampling' part of the tool. Otherwise it seems functional and very nicely compact and portable. What's the price? You can check your EGT yourself against an infra red thermometer..can't answer the calibrate Q?. | ||
| DGS (Dgs)
New member Username: Dgs Post Number: 1 Registered: 5-2003 |
Any opinions on the TIF5GA (http://www.geneq.com/catalog/en/tif5ga.htm) for the home shop? Also, any leads on calibration kits/tools for new/old EGT testers? How often do units need recalibration? | ||
| P. Thomas (Ferrari_fanatic)
Member Username: Ferrari_fanatic Post Number: 277 Registered: 4-2003 |
Henry, CO is the unburned gas in the cylinders. HC (Hydrocarbons) is the unit measured in Parts Per Million and reprents unburned gas coming out of the tail pipe. I think what JRV is trying to say is if your air/fuel ratio is correct 1% CO or less, if you have a bad valve, worn rings, or an electrical misfire you will also have a high HC reading. The cat cleans a lot of that up so "downstream readings" are always lower (or should be if the cat is doing its job). I think what JRV is saying is that if you have a high HC reading, you will have to figure out WHY next. The scope I am sure would be the next step. | ||
| JRV (Jrvall)
Intermediate Member Username: Jrvall Post Number: 1579 Registered: 11-2002 |
Henryk, I found a used equip seller...with a quick search, there might be others, this place is in Florida...:-o...but it can give you some ideas of the machines availible and general used price ranges in case you can find a local source. http://www.allstates.com/Emissions.html | ||
| JRV (Jrvall)
Intermediate Member Username: Jrvall Post Number: 1559 Registered: 11-2002 |
Henryk, from your explanation of the wideband 02 it is as I thought, they are far different tools used for far different reasons. If I'm understanding correctly, the wideband 02 assumes the engine is running perfect and shows or allows changes to only one aspect of fuel system condition, lean/rich. While OTOH a Gas Analyzer shows not only lean/rich, but what the engine is actualy doing with that reading/fuel, plus any ignition anomolies that might be present, and/or a variety of other conditions and/or drivability issues. For example, just setting an engine to 1% CO will do nothing about a bad plug or plug wire, etc. The gas analyzer not only tells you the engine is 1% CO, it also tells thru HC ppm what that engine is doing with the fuel, ie: burning it perfectly or just passing it thru the cylinder as a miss. So the HC # is very important as it tells whether an engine is missing, even slightly or undectable to the ear. Actual Tuning is far more than just setting mixture, it is really about optimizing the combustion process from every angle, fuel, sealing, ignition, etc. | ||
| Henryk (Henryk)
Member Username: Henryk Post Number: 731 Registered: 8-2001 |
JRV: The data reported is the air/fuel ratio. I understand this is being used by many racing teams. The cost is around $1200 vs about $4000 for an anlyzer. I assume that either would work? Does this make sense? When you measure HC, what are you looking for, regarding values. This obviously relates to air/fuel mixture also. For example, what HC reading are you trying to get, in say a Boxer? Thanks | ||
| JRV (Jrvall)
Intermediate Member Username: Jrvall Post Number: 1546 Registered: 11-2002 |
Henryk, what data does the sensor report? In diagnoising and tuning HC readings are very important and actually tell the most about proper running. All the #'s are important, but imo HC is the most important because it indicates combustion efficiency/condition (IOW's whether there is a miss of any type or not).. | ||
| Henryk (Henryk)
Member Username: Henryk Post Number: 726 Registered: 8-2001 |
JRV: A friend has recommended that I NOT buy a gas analyzer....instead, he feels that a wide-band O2 sensor, with data logging, would be much more beneficial. Do you agree? | ||
| JRV (Jrvall)
Intermediate Member Username: Jrvall Post Number: 1545 Registered: 11-2002 |
Henryk, I have a big ALLEN PC based complete diagnostic center with digital & live scope, gas analyzer, yada, yada yada, way more than I would need,( or what I think you're looking for), if I was doing this part time, but as to quality ALLEN has been a great machine and getting it serviced expensive but easy. Ill try tonight to find the site that sells used PC Based Gas Analyzer only consoles...there relitivly small and roll around and store easy. Sun is good, Bear I think makes small PC based units...most of the PC based consoles are expandable...and mostof these in very good used condition can be had for $900.00-$2500.00 , depending. | ||
| Henryk (Henryk)
Member Username: Henryk Post Number: 722 Registered: 8-2001 |
JRV: What brand are you using? | ||
| Henryk (Henryk)
Member Username: Henryk Post Number: 721 Registered: 8-2001 |
Thanks JRV: I have seen some used ones on e-bay. But, they are either too old, outdated, or made by companies not around. I would tend to agree with you regarding the 4-gas.....am not planning on moving to CA. | ||
| JRV (Jrvall)
Intermediate Member Username: Jrvall Post Number: 1544 Registered: 11-2002 |
Henryk, the 5 gas is the coming wave, but truly overkill for all but those in very strict smog districts like here or Calif. unless you really want to know about your NOx readings. Buy a used one...good 4 gas for personal use family and friends or small hobby shop and spend the balance you save elsewhere imo. I'll see if I can find a link to some guys in Tenn. that sell used, repo'd equip. | ||
| Henryk (Henryk)
Member Username: Henryk Post Number: 719 Registered: 8-2001 |
I am interested in purchasing an exhaust gas analyzer, to check on the condition of my Ferrari. My concerns of recommendations are the following: A 4 or 5 gas system It must be made by a company that will be, and has been around for a while.....for service. It must be one of the BEST. It must be a professional model, vs a home use model/ The two I came up with consist of a hand held unit from OTC, and a stand up unit from Ease Diagnostics. Anyone use either of the above two? Thank you |