| Author |
Message |
V.Z. (Ama328)
Junior Member
Username: Ama328
Post Number: 130
Registered: 11-2002
| | Posted on Monday, June 02, 2003 - 11:10 am: | |
Well, amazingly enuf, after *much* grief, skinned nuckles, newly invented curse words, etc., etc., etc., I 'done did it' withOUT removing the plenum.
Standard learning curve for me, which means 3 times the length of time vs. when I do it a second time, which'll still be longer than when a pro does it...however, I DID IT MYSELF, so am still on my way towards learning how to work on this stuff myself. For anyone wanting to change the two coolant hoses that run crosswise in the 'V' of the engine:
* remove thermostat housing to get more access and to allow for repositioning hose(s) out of the way.
* might remove oil filter and shine a light from that end to help w/visibility.
* 10mm wrench/socket for loosening/tightening clamps that are not reachable via screwdriver.
* probably have to cut/slice hoses to get 'em off.
* the real trick to this, especially with the lower hose(tightest access & is the shorter of the two) is to use a hose that is flexible enough to be able to bend it as you insert it. There's about *zero* clearance to insert one of the super-duper, stiffer than steel, never gonna break in 20 yr type hoses, so I went to a thinner, more flexible type that should work fine for at least 2-3 yrs.
I'd recommend using the longer lasting stuff if doing an engine out maintenance(which I hope to do in the not so distant future), but for limited access maintenance, the more flexible hoses should be fine, even if I would be looking at doing this in a couple of yrs(should have full maintenance done well before that, however).
* other thing i'd recommend is that once you have the hoses off, position the clamps on the bare pipe about where you'd like them and make note of how/where you can reach them w/screwdriver. This way, you'll have a good idea of where they should be, as after you've got the hose on, it's more difficult to accurately judge this, cuz it's so cramped.
Sometimes seems that access is about 90% of the problem on working on these things... |
Gary van Hartogh (Garyvh)
New member
Username: Garyvh
Post Number: 50
Registered: 3-2001
| | Posted on Saturday, May 31, 2003 - 8:01 am: | |
V.Z., I just replaced all my hoses (308QV). For the 2 coolant hoses you are talking about, which do fail,I took the plenum off. Mark the hoses and do watch out for the metal spacers. I also pulled the water pump, only 4 bolts, make sure you have the O ring for the reinstall. From there it's easy. A Ferrari mechanic that I talked to replaces those hoses by just pulling the water pump. He said the hoses will come right off. Also check the heater hoses. When I took mine off at the engine the inside was turning to black mush.It sound like it's time to replace all the hoses. It's an exercise in patience but I'd hate to pay a mechanic for all the hours it took.
Good luck ....... Gary |
david handa (Davehanda)
Member
Username: Davehanda
Post Number: 831
Registered: 5-2001
| | Posted on Friday, May 30, 2003 - 11:44 pm: | |
Hans,
You had that right. I replace the little hose that goes from the expansion tank to the top of the engine. I used a number of extensions and a u-joint for my ratchet to get them loose. Gary Reed, was able to get both of the larger hoses out by using a 1/4 inch drive flexible extension and removal of the warm-up regulator on his 308 QV. Me? I just fixed the one hose to get me going, and later took it to Carlo at Alfa of Tacoma and had him replace everything with Gates green stripe. He even replaced that t-fitting someone else mentioned, as it was all corroded looking and ready to give out. |
Steve M (Steve308gtsi)
Junior Member
Username: Steve308gtsi
Post Number: 70
Registered: 5-2002
| | Posted on Friday, May 30, 2003 - 10:31 pm: | |
VZ,
Just a little tip. When you pull off the plenum there are little round metal spacers that the studs go through in the plenum gaskets. Make sure not to have one fall off in the intake when you pull it off. Once you take the top hoses off its pretty easy. Might as well do them all while your in there. |
Ali Haas (Aehaas)
New member
Username: Aehaas
Post Number: 16
Registered: 5-2003
| | Posted on Friday, May 30, 2003 - 8:36 pm: | |
General Answer...
If the rubber is all old and you have to start taking things apart then you really need to replace all the rubber including vacuum and fuel lines.
aehaas |
Jack (Gilles27)
Member
Username: Gilles27
Post Number: 940
Registered: 3-2002
| | Posted on Friday, May 30, 2003 - 8:22 pm: | |
VZ--I just had all this work done by a mechanic. Last fall my water pump blew, and during the repair we decided to replace the rest of the hoses. There's a T-connecter on the left side, and mine had developed a small hole, so that was replaced. Also, my hoses were OK, but showing signs of aging. Upgraded them to higher heat resistance (woven metal hoses). I'm pretty sure they were easy to access once the tire and wheel well housing are removed. Don't know if this helps... |
Hans E. Hansen (4re_gt4)
Intermediate Member
Username: 4re_gt4
Post Number: 1395
Registered: 4-2002
| | Posted on Thursday, May 29, 2003 - 3:08 pm: | |
I don't have an injected car, so don't know first hand. But..... Seems that I remember Dave Handa doing this hose replacement w/plenum on.
Or that could just be a memory from that other planet I was on. |
V.Z. (Ama328)
Junior Member
Username: Ama328
Post Number: 119
Registered: 11-2002
| | Posted on Thursday, May 29, 2003 - 2:45 pm: | |
Ok, found the leak, couple quick questions:
* under the plenum, there's a couple 4-6" segments of hose, about 1"+ in diameter, that run left to right, through the 'V' part of the top of the motor. They are located one on top of the other.
* and, of course, the busted hose is the lower one, which looks impossible to get to...
So, appears to me I've gotta go in through the top(off with the plenum), but thought I'd try a quick post just to see if'n I could get lucky with some other approach.
If I *do* have to remove the plenum, anyone out there have torque specs? |
Mark Foley (Sparky)
Junior Member
Username: Sparky
Post Number: 55
Registered: 3-2002
| | Posted on Wednesday, May 28, 2003 - 1:44 pm: | |
Before you pull the plenum I recommend you check the heater hose where it connects to the block. This is a common area for a coolant leak.
From the top L/H side you can feel along the hose and in many cases, you can feel a buldge right at the block fitting. This part of the hose gets a lot of direct heat transfered from the block to thru the fitting.
If this is where it is leaking, it is easy to just splice-in a foot or so of new hose.
You get to this area from the L/H side after removing the wheel and the wheelwell.
If needed, I think I have a picture of this area--email me and I will send it to you. Or let me know and I will try to post it. |
Steve M (Steve308gtsi)
Junior Member
Username: Steve308gtsi
Post Number: 63
Registered: 5-2002
| | Posted on Tuesday, May 27, 2003 - 5:32 pm: | |
VZ,
I recently had the same problem. It was leaking on the left side by the filter. I traced it down to one of the hoses under the plenum. The coolant followed a path under and over to the left by the filter. I just cleaned and blew everthing dry and then was actually able to feel around the bad hose and it was wet. Pulling the plenum wasn't too hard. I put new gaskets anyways and changed all the hoses while in there. |
TomD (Tifosi)
Advanced Member
Username: Tifosi
Post Number: 3752
Registered: 9-2001
| | Posted on Tuesday, May 27, 2003 - 2:36 pm: | |
I was lazy and had the dealer do it, if you can turn a wrench I am sure you can do it, BTW if you have a similar leak it could cause you to see it on both sides of the engine as it runs off the top of the manifold |
Peter Logli (Plogli)
New member
Username: Plogli
Post Number: 33
Registered: 11-2002
| | Posted on Tuesday, May 27, 2003 - 2:21 pm: | |
VZ--there is a small hose running from the front side of the expansion tank by the oil filter, and under the intake. It connects to a casting which bolts to the heads and has a larger hose connecting to the water pump. The casting is aluminum and the small pipe coming out of it is steel. These are prone to corrosion and I had a similar small leak on mine from this pipe. When we pulled the hose off, the corroded pipe came with it. You can see this connection from the right rear of the engine. My mechanic replaced it with a brass pipe and installed a new hose and clamps. However the bad news is it required removing the entire intake to access the casting and repair it properly.
While you are there better check the other hoses as the cost to do this fix is in the labor to get to everything. The hoses are pretty cheap.
Good Luck with it. |
V.Z. (Ama328)
Junior Member
Username: Ama328
Post Number: 117
Registered: 11-2002
| | Posted on Tuesday, May 27, 2003 - 2:20 pm: | |
So, Tom, anything tricky in pulling the plenum ? |
V.Z. (Ama328)
Junior Member
Username: Ama328
Post Number: 116
Registered: 11-2002
| | Posted on Tuesday, May 27, 2003 - 2:19 pm: | |
thx, Lawrence...don't think it's the reservoir tank, as steam came out of louvers on right front side...i made it back to the house ok, and just did a quick look this morning, poured water in, heard then saw somewheres off the right side of engine(couldn't really tell), then jacked it up
to get a better look. That's when the flow moved to somewhere on left front of motor.
Once it became apparent that this was *not* a 5 minute hose swap, I shelved it, and will get the car jacked up a bunch, but level on all four corners to dive into this some more.
I should probably replace all of the coolant hoses, and might consider it right now if I could
determine locations/hoses/procedures, but as mentioned, am thinking of deferring until a later more thorough maintenance... |
TomD (Tifosi)
Advanced Member
Username: Tifosi
Post Number: 3751
Registered: 9-2001
| | Posted on Tuesday, May 27, 2003 - 2:17 pm: | |
mine leaked under the plenum and it had to come off |
Lawrence Coppari (Lawrence)
Member
Username: Lawrence
Post Number: 627
Registered: 4-2002
| | Posted on Tuesday, May 27, 2003 - 2:06 pm: | |
The drain tap is a screw in plug with a crush type copper or aluminum gasket. It is unlikely that it would leak there.
Are you sure it is not the reservoir cap relieving? If you put too much coolant in the reservoir, it will put it on the ground untl the level/pressure reach equilibrium.
My 328 leaked from the large hoses behind the water pump. The rubber hoses had hardened and the clamps would not make a good seal. The water pump on mine went so I replaced it and the hoses behind and in front of it while I was doing the servicing. |
V.Z. (Ama328)
Junior Member
Username: Ama328
Post Number: 115
Registered: 11-2002
| | Posted on Tuesday, May 27, 2003 - 1:47 pm: | |
ok folks, did a search didn't turn up much, so a new post...have a coolant leak, sumpin' popped while doing one of several shakedown runs, having a tough time here:
* might be on one of the small hose(s) on left side of engine, kind of under the oil filter.
If so, is there any practical/feasible way to get into all of that to replace these, or am I looking
at pulling the engine(ugh) ? I'm looking at the diagram in the U.S. owner's manual, am I correct
in presuming that the hoses depicted are *all* of the hoses? Looks doable form the pics, but
pretty cramped when I get under face to face with the motor.
* Next is, any suggestions for tracing a water leak other than pouring water in and checking
where it might come from? Is compounded by when the car was flat, the water eventually made itself
out kinda on the right side of motor, but when jacked up now seems to come from left side. Am
gonna get it jacked up more level, but probably not for a day or two.
* I see in the owner's manual diagram a spot on the left front of the engine where there's a
'water drain tap from the crankcase' (#7), is it likely this can fail? Seems unlikely to me but
not sure.
* And lasty, if I need to remove the plenum to get to other hoses, is there a problem reusing
the same gasket? Anything tricky I oughta know about removing the plenum(saw a post by Ed Gault,
didn't seem to too much to it). Would rather not have to wait on getting a replacement at this point.
Probably gonna do a major service not too far down the line, would like to defer extraneous
stuff 'till then.
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