| Author | Message | ||
| Verell Boaen (Verell)
Member Username: Verell Post Number: 802 Registered: 5-2001 |
This is probably moot since I see you've got the bolts out. For future reference, you don't need the "friend, with the scabs on his knuckles". Here are a pair of tricks: 1) Have someone hold the breaker bar in place while you lie on your back & push on the end of it with the sole of your shoe. Your leg is a lot stronger than your arms. (Especially if you're a beefy guy like me.) Blew my 6' 200+ lb son't mind when I said I could break a bolt loose that he'd been fighting all day. Went 1st try. 2) Plan B: Jack the car up, position the breaker bar handle angling somewhat downward. Take a piece of 2x4 & drill a hole in it (or just cut it to length) so that it supports the end of the wrench. Let the jack down about 6" - 8". Gravity + the weight of the car will do the rest. The only time this has failed me is when the head broke off of the bolt. Even then, it beat cutting the bolt head off! Of course there's the old standby of a few feet of 1" pipe or 1" box bar on the wrench handle. This works well in conjunction with #1 of course. | ||
| Paul Jeffery (Peajay)
Junior Member Username: Peajay Post Number: 60 Registered: 4-2002 |
Andy The mass of steel is pretty large and it is easy to direct the heat well onto the nuts, so not as much heat as one would imagine goes into the joint, plus the assembly comes apart anyway to remove the rubber gaiters and replace the grease. I didn't need the vice grips as it turned out, but on those inner bolts there is probably not enough room for them. Could be maybe on the outer bolts. | ||
| Andrew A. Illes (Andyilles)
Junior Member Username: Andyilles Post Number: 71 Registered: 10-2002 |
LOL James.... a guy owes me some money. Refer your scabby-knuckle assistant to me, ok? Peajay.. my problem with heating those bolts isn't so much the gas tanks, but frying the grease in the joints, never mind the boots. You didn't say.. were you able to ViseGrip the remainder of the bolts out ok? Regards, Andy | ||
| Paul Jeffery (Peajay)
Junior Member Username: Peajay Post Number: 59 Registered: 4-2002 |
Well I finally got the bolts out, the inner ones came out with not too much trouble because they stay nice and clean and even a little bit oily in that location. The really tough ones are the outers !! they sit in the wheel arch and get nicely rusted in place, I got three out with heat, although I don't like using a flame only 18 inches from the fuel tank. The final three I really did have to cut off, I cut through the nuts with a Dremel which was not so difficult. The nuts are trapped against the aft flange shoulder as an anti-rotation but the corners round off and also the hex sockets in the bolts round off. So all in all cutting them off is not a bad thing because you would not want to re-use those outer nuts and bolts anyway. I hate to think how much my Ferrari dealer would charge for this little job. | ||
| James Selevan (Jselevan)
Member Username: Jselevan Post Number: 573 Registered: 6-2002 |
Paul - I recently removed these Allen bolts - DO NOT CUT THEM. As Andrew suggested, be patient. They will break loose. Just keep at it. Use a socket Allen wrench and breaker bar. Get the car in the air or on stands, and find a guy with scabs on his knuckles and in want of a beer to climb underneath and put some beef behind the effort. Oh, and make sure that the Allen socket is all the way in the bolt, as far as it will go, and tap it in with a small hammer to make sure it is seated and not held up by some grease, otherwise your friend, the one with the scabs on his knuckles, may not be your friend for long. And if you chose the right guy, you don't want him as your enemy. Jim S. | ||
| Andrew A. Illes (Andyilles)
Junior Member Username: Andyilles Post Number: 70 Registered: 10-2002 |
Peajay, If you haven't already done it, go the breaker bar route instead of cutting the heads off. They WILL come out, given enough muscle. Those are hardened and tempered bolts (I don't know the grade), but if you lay on some muscle, they'll pop, and come on out. You can't apply enough torque without a breaker, and you may even twist an allen socket or two, so have several. Oh, and I absolutely agree.. no heat!! PS.. get some "Liquid Wrench", spray it on liberally, let it set a day or two, sharply tapping each bolt every few hours... works magic. Hope it helps. | ||
| Gerrit Visser (Gerritv)
Junior Member Username: Gerritv Post Number: 192 Registered: 6-2001 |
Hi Paul The manual is written as you learn :-) This is part of the Total Ferrari Experience. In a week or so I will be posting a thread on my winter/spring suspension restoration project. Nada in the manuals on that one until you need to torque the bolts and nuts up at the end. | ||
| Paul Jeffery (Peajay)
Junior Member Username: Peajay Post Number: 55 Registered: 4-2002 |
I think I am going to take the easy route and cut off the nuts on the outer flange with my trusty little Dremel, they are siezed solid. I really don't like the idea of using heat to help free up the inner bolts they are pretty deeply covered and close to some serious stuff, looks a bit risky to me. I think those could prove to be a problem, so I am hoping the Allen socket (when I can find one) will do the job. Thanks for the offer of the manuals Andrew, I have actually downloaded and printed those mentioned but they are frustratingly incomplete for most jobs and have excessive pointless details (engine crankshaft tolerances etc.) for other things. If anyone knows where I can get a "proper" comprehensive manual like I have for other cars I would be happy to buy it. thanks to all for the help | ||
| Hans E. Hansen (4re_gt4)
Intermediate Member Username: 4re_gt4 Post Number: 1383 Registered: 4-2002 |
Andrew: The manuals are available on line. Several sources, but try http://www.ferrari.jenkins.org/ | ||
| Andrew A. Illes (Andyilles)
Junior Member Username: Andyilles Post Number: 62 Registered: 10-2002 |
Peajay, Yup.. those bolts can be a •••••.. but you're on the right track. An Allen socket and breaker bar will get them out. Once out, remove the circlip at the end, and the whole thing slides out. Just be VERY careful to keep each ball in it's cage. As to books, the F parts manual has excellent "cut away" drawings showing parts relationships. Also I have a 308 GT4 shop manual, which is in many respects mechanically substantially identical to the 3** series. I would gladly LOAN it to you to Xerox. [email protected] (561)514-1620 | ||
| Gerrit Visser (Gerritv)
Junior Member Username: Gerritv Post Number: 190 Registered: 6-2001 |
Hi Both joints stay on the shaft. Yes the bolts can be tough to get loose. Heat and a good breaker bar are a great help. | ||
| Paul Jeffery (Peajay)
Junior Member Username: Peajay Post Number: 52 Registered: 4-2002 |
GERRITV I see in your excellent photo that you show only the outer universal joint disassembled, does the shaft slide out and leave the inboard joint in place ? or do both joints stay with the shaft assembly ? I think I am going to have to get out the old Dremel to cut off the nuts on the outer end at least, because they are solid, probably due to being in the wet and dirt over the years. The inner bolts look in better shape because they are less exposed, so I am hoping I can get in with a long extension and shift those. This is about the first job I have done since getting the car and it's being difficult. | ||
| Bill White (Nc_newbie)
Junior Member Username: Nc_newbie Post Number: 76 Registered: 2-2003 |
When I pulled mine I had to use a 19" breaker bar to loosen them. A local Ferrari mechanic said that many times they had to be cut off so I guess I was lucky in that I didn't break or strip any. Bill | ||
| Paul Jeffery (Peajay)
Junior Member Username: Peajay Post Number: 51 Registered: 4-2002 |
Thanks to both for the info, I will remove both ends as you suggested. The Allen bolts are VERY tight and will not move with a regular Allen wrench so I will have to go and buy an Allen socket. I presume the bearings inside are pretty easy to disassemble. | ||
| Steve Magnusson (91tr)
Intermediate Member Username: 91tr Post Number: 1822 Registered: 1-2001 |
Paul J. -- I'd recommend that you remove the driveshaft as an assembly (i.e., unbolt both ends) so you can do the CV joint/boot work (relubing, tightening the boot clamps, etc.) on the bench. Unless you just had them refreshed, it wouldn't make sense to me not to freshen both CV joints/boots of a half-shaft -- JMO. | ||
| Gerrit Visser (Gerritv)
Junior Member Username: Gerritv Post Number: 189 Registered: 6-2001 |
Hi You remove the 6 allen bolts from each end. Be sure to support the outer end with a rope or equivalent so that it doesn't drop down once the allen bolts on that end are removed (will damage the inside end flange otherwise). The drive shaft will come out easily then.  | ||
| Paul Jeffery (Peajay)
New member Username: Peajay Post Number: 50 Registered: 4-2002 |
On my 328 I have a split inner boot on the driveshaft. The manual files I have don't show me how to remove it. I presume I remove the Allen headed bolts on the inboard flange and then remove the lower wishbone pivot bolt to pull the shaft still in the hub away from the differential. Have I got it right ? I am still looking for a source for a good repair/workshop manual that gives me an idea of how to do this type of work, so if anyone can let me know where I can get one that would be a big help. |