| Author |
Message |
Mike Charness (Mcharness)
Member
Username: Mcharness
Post Number: 617
Registered: 8-2002
| | Posted on Monday, June 09, 2003 - 7:01 pm: | |
Thanks. Just ordered a master cylinder #3177F from Superformance UK for $245 (current exchange rate) plus shipping. They have rebuild kits listed, but they don't have any currently available and don't know if/when they'll get them in. |
rich (Dino2400)
Member
Username: Dino2400
Post Number: 251
Registered: 10-2001
| | Posted on Saturday, June 07, 2003 - 10:52 pm: | |
Sorry guys - should have posted the vendor in my earlier post. Check www.superformance.co.uk. Shipping is cheaper than you'd think and takes only a few days to the states. They sell dino, 308, and maserati parts... |
mike 308 (Concorde)
Junior Member
Username: Concorde
Post Number: 223
Registered: 8-2002
| | Posted on Saturday, June 07, 2003 - 12:38 pm: | |
Rich: The best quote I've gotten on new master cylinders for my 308 is $475 -- partly because they're supposedly only available with the brake booster as part of the new assembly.
Where do you find rebuild kits for the 308 or master cylinders for $225? I'd really like to know!
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rich (Dino2400)
Junior Member
Username: Dino2400
Post Number: 250
Registered: 10-2001
| | Posted on Saturday, June 07, 2003 - 11:08 am: | |
I'm with Andrew. If the pedal sinks while you have your foot on it, then the master cylinder is bad. Rebuild kits are about $30 or new master cylinders are about $225. I know which I'd choose! |
david handa (Davehanda)
Member
Username: Davehanda
Post Number: 928
Registered: 5-2001
| | Posted on Saturday, June 07, 2003 - 10:22 am: | |
Well, to be more accurate, when the check valve went on my 328 the pedal went to the floor but was very firm, like having no power assist...but pumping the pedal would return it to normal, and would not act up for the rest of the day... |
Mike Charness (Mcharness)
Member
Username: Mcharness
Post Number: 604
Registered: 8-2002
| | Posted on Saturday, June 07, 2003 - 5:51 am: | |
Yes, if the check valve is not working properly, the brake pedal would be stiffer, rather than have the drop to the floor problem.
The cup seals inside a master cylinder do get less pliable with age (even though they're always wet) and can leak. They're tapered... think of them as looking like a styrofoam cup pushed into a hole. When you apply strong brake pressure, you're jamming it into the hole, and you get a fine seal. But if you apply only light pressure, if the seal is getting old and feeble, brake fluid is able to leak around the edges and get through.
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Andrew A. Illes (Andyilles)
Junior Member
Username: Andyilles
Post Number: 79
Registered: 10-2002
| | Posted on Friday, June 06, 2003 - 9:33 pm: | |
Gentlemen,
That vacuum check valve has NOTHING to do with a brake pedal going to the floor while stopped!
Unless, as Stanley noted, you have a leak (which you didn't mention), the problem is the "rubber" cups on the master cylinder piston leaking brake fluid under pressure. Forget check valves -- rebuild that master cylinder, before a little kid runs into the street in front of you, and you can't stop!! This is NOT head-scratching time, this is rebuild that master cylinder time. |
mike 308 (Concorde)
Junior Member
Username: Concorde
Post Number: 214
Registered: 8-2002
| | Posted on Friday, May 30, 2003 - 2:55 pm: | |
T Rutlands has the check valves in stock for under $30. |
mike 308 (Concorde)
Junior Member
Username: Concorde
Post Number: 213
Registered: 8-2002
| | Posted on Friday, May 30, 2003 - 1:22 pm: | |
I took mine out... it takes quite a set of lungs to blow or suck through it in the direction of the flow, and blowing brake cleaner through it only helped while the liquid hadn't yet evaporated. I don't know if mine is good or bad, or how much pressure or vacuum it's supposed to take to release the valve.
Meanwhile, I called the Ferrari dealer and they don't have any, and aren't planning to get any. They suspect it is common to other cars (Fiats, Alfas, or...?) but don't really know. Old p/n is 101538 superceded by 128435.
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david handa (Davehanda)
Member
Username: Davehanda
Post Number: 830
Registered: 5-2001
| | Posted on Friday, May 30, 2003 - 10:34 am: | |
Yes, sorry, the check valve is in the vacuum line as Mike surmised/detailed. |
Mike Charness (Mcharness)
Member
Username: Mcharness
Post Number: 571
Registered: 8-2002
| | Posted on Friday, May 30, 2003 - 10:30 am: | |
In the 1984 308QV parts book, it's on TAV 28, #2. To find it in the car, you look at the larger braided hose coming out of the red intake manifold, and go towards the coils about a foot. While it's assembled, it just looks like a metal tube/coupling connecting two braided hoses.
Hope that helps.
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Mike Charness (Mcharness)
Member
Username: Mcharness
Post Number: 570
Registered: 8-2002
| | Posted on Friday, May 30, 2003 - 6:34 am: | |
I would also like to know where that check valve is, if someone could post a picture. |
Hans E. Hansen (4re_gt4)
Intermediate Member
Username: 4re_gt4
Post Number: 1396
Registered: 4-2002
| | Posted on Thursday, May 29, 2003 - 3:12 pm: | |
The check valve comment puzzled me. I'm wondering if he meant the check valve in the vacuum line to the PB booster. |
mike 308 (Concorde)
Junior Member
Username: Concorde
Post Number: 212
Registered: 8-2002
| | Posted on Thursday, May 29, 2003 - 2:53 pm: | |
I still need someone to post me a picture or tell me the parts book TAV/# so I can find that check valve before I do the master cylinder thing... please. |
Gerrit Visser (Gerritv)
Junior Member
Username: Gerritv
Post Number: 193
Registered: 6-2001
| | Posted on Thursday, May 29, 2003 - 7:56 am: | |
My GT4 has a master cylinder from a 1989 Daytona Sebring. Not sure about the booster yet. Somewhere in this car's past there was a decent substitution made. Replaced the master yesterday for 97 Canadian (<60 US). Two bolts, 2 pipes and time to bleed it. The original would be 4 bolts and 2 pipes :-)
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Mike Charness (Mcharness)
Member
Username: Mcharness
Post Number: 566
Registered: 8-2002
| | Posted on Wednesday, May 28, 2003 - 10:17 pm: | |
JRV: Not always... see the listing at
ebay.com/item=2417051968
in contrast to
ebay.com/item=2414677530
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JRV (Jrvall)
Intermediate Member
Username: Jrvall
Post Number: 1613
Registered: 11-2002
| | Posted on Wednesday, May 28, 2003 - 9:44 pm: | |
>>or do you have to do the entire m/c, booster/reserviour assembly?<<
they come as one assembled unit. |
mike 308 (Concorde)
Junior Member
Username: Concorde
Post Number: 211
Registered: 8-2002
| | Posted on Wednesday, May 28, 2003 - 9:42 pm: | |
Is it practical to just change out the master cylinder (does that generally solve the problem), or do you have to do the entire m/c, booster/reserviour assembly? |
Don Norton (Litig8r)
Junior Member
Username: Litig8r
Post Number: 138
Registered: 6-2001
| | Posted on Wednesday, May 28, 2003 - 9:26 pm: | |
My '78 had that - was a master cylinder. Whatever you do, don't put the repair off. It will come back and will get worse. |
Stanley DiGuiseppi (Standig)
Junior Member
Username: Standig
Post Number: 97
Registered: 5-2002
| | Posted on Wednesday, May 28, 2003 - 6:59 pm: | |
If the pedal goes to the floor but the master cylinder resevoir is full it needs a new master cylinder. If the fluid is low then look for a leak. |
"The Don" (Mlemus)
Advanced Member
Username: Mlemus
Post Number: 4944
Registered: 8-2002
| | Posted on Wednesday, May 28, 2003 - 4:36 pm: | |
Mike,
They can be rebuilt but I opt for the new ones. New they are $680ish
M |
mike 308 (Concorde)
Junior Member
Username: Concorde
Post Number: 210
Registered: 8-2002
| | Posted on Wednesday, May 28, 2003 - 3:12 pm: | |
I'd sure like to know about that check valve, so at least we can make sure it's not that before doing the master cylinder. I've looked through the archives and have seen the description, but I can't seem to find it visually on my 308QV. If someone has a digital pic they can post, or tell me the TAV and item number from the parts catalog, I'd be very grateful.
Does a master cylinder normally get replaced or rebuilt? Is it a major task either way? I'm wondering if I need my "exotics" mechanic, or can I let the local shop that has done my basic brakes and rotors before take care of it.
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JRV (Jrvall)
Intermediate Member
Username: Jrvall
Post Number: 1611
Registered: 11-2002
| | Posted on Wednesday, May 28, 2003 - 3:11 pm: | |
>>Mike and Dave... 99.999% of the time, that's a bad master cylinder. Emergency time!! <<
agree....
you could try bleeding...however almost anytime a Master Cyl. goes down cold it's an internal seal leaking letting fluid bypass. |
Andrew A. Illes (Andyilles)
Junior Member
Username: Andyilles
Post Number: 57
Registered: 10-2002
| | Posted on Wednesday, May 28, 2003 - 1:45 pm: | |
Mike and Dave... 99.999% of the time, that's a bad master cylinder. Emergency time!!
Andy |
david handa (Davehanda)
Member
Username: Davehanda
Post Number: 819
Registered: 5-2001
| | Posted on Wednesday, May 28, 2003 - 1:41 pm: | |
Not sure where located, but there is a simple check valve that needs to be replaced. I had mine done last winter, cheapest bill I ever had on a Ferrari! |
mike 308 (Concorde)
Junior Member
Username: Concorde
Post Number: 209
Registered: 8-2002
| | Posted on Wednesday, May 28, 2003 - 1:30 pm: | |
I was just sitting at a stoplight with my foot on the brake pedal of my 308QV, and suddenly the pedal dropped to the floor. I took my foot off of it and put it back down, and it was normal again. It didn't happen the rest of the drive, but it did happen again a few days later and "corrected" itself again.
What would cause that? I don't see any leaks or fluid obvious around the wheels (though I haven't taken anything apart).
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