| Author | Message | ||
| billy bob (Fatbillybob)
Member Username: Fatbillybob Post Number: 277 Registered: 8-2002 |
Rob, All 348 and 355 challenge cars had these 1-4 5-8 light come on during running. It happens to do with the fact that Ferrari never intended this back-up system to function at race sppeds and temps and conditions. Every racer I know of unpluged the exhaust ecus right behind the rear shock towers. As a racer you should be tuned into your car. If you are all of a sudden going from full throtle and now 4 lungs you will feel it and you will know to pit. This ecu system is a stupid ferrari trick ala the oil idiot light! As to Ferrari challenge cages they are not SCCA legal to my knowledge except in the lowest classes. You can make them legal if they are totally welded into the car. The window net belt is a mini seat belt looking thing and there may be ears for the challenge door bar that is missing in your car. The challenge door bar often had a male seat belt tang welded to it or a thin 3/8" bar welded from the bar at your left knee to the rear roll hoop bar that had this tang to clip in the window net. | ||
| Rob Lay (Rob328gts)
Board Administrator Username: Rob328gts Post Number: 5109 Registered: 12-2000 |
Ok, here's my complete list after running one day, I think it's pretty minor all considered after the first time. 1) Both check engine lights would come on periodically during the lap. Is this normal? 2) Need a new catch brace for the rear bonnet stand. Wooooo, Big Deal! ;) 3) I found one ding on the back right pannel. Wooo, Another Big Deal on a race car! ;) | ||
| Rob Lay (Rob328gts)
Board Administrator Username: Rob328gts Post Number: 5105 Registered: 12-2000 |
I have the Challenge cage in there right now. Rob, also I was looking at the new T1 rules and I have to do both NASCAR bars and get the connections welded. This is going to be a pain I think. Have you built any Challenge cages meeting the new rules? The SCCA cage I got in pieces from FoD is the old cage which has no NASCAR bars and is bolted. | ||
| Rob Schermerhorn (Rexrcr)
Member Username: Rexrcr Post Number: 623 Registered: 11-2002 |
On the belts, you should have two mounts under the seat for the anti-sub, or at least one(????) As for the net belt, I bet it extends the bottom corner of the window net down to the cage cross-brace. Maybe it fits the Challenge cage and not your SCCA-legal cage? | ||
| Rob Lay (Rob328gts)
Board Administrator Username: Rob328gts Post Number: 5103 Registered: 12-2000 |
Question... can't find the 5th point of the seat belt but there is a seat belt coming off the window net, what in the heck is that about? | ||
| billy bob (Fatbillybob)
Member Username: Fatbillybob Post Number: 274 Registered: 8-2002 |
Rob, On the race seats you can go carbon fibre for the lightest seat but for safety is is recommended that you have a back brace or use an 0.015 aluminium seat. So if you go carbon you negagate any advantage due to the back brace weight. As to head room it is an impossible issue under stock OEM conditions. Here is what you can do. 1- look stupid and run an new bar off the challenge cage out of the car on the drivers side and up onto the roofline. 2- run without the roof. 3- gut all the roof line to the tin metal and run the cage right on the sheetmetal. Also you can gut the interior and move the seat right up against the shifter box. That will get you just a bit more but skews your pedal and stearing wheel. I'm going through the learning curve on my 348 doing the race thing. Many issues apply between the 2 models. Personally, I'd like to hear more on 348/55 mods for racing. Perhaps we should all become Rexrcr groupies and let him go wild on our suspensions. | ||
| David Moore (Speedmoore)
Junior Member Username: Speedmoore Post Number: 53 Registered: 4-2003 |
"Any ideas for giving me more head room?" I'm assuming you have the SCCA legal bolt in cage. IT's a real problem. Frankly if I owned the car, I'd fabricate and weld in my own 4130 chrome molly cage much tighter and higher to the roof. But the roof is a problem too. Just spent quite a bit of time custom fabricating brackets to move the OMP down 1" on the driver side and still have an adjustable slider. Was on my bridgeport quite a bit. Also moved the passenger seat down 1.5" down and the whole seat inward 2.5" for more clearance to the roll cage from the a to b pillar. I'm 6'-1" too. Spent all day last thursday instructing in a 355 Challenge car with my freak'n head bent over and into the roof and rlll cage hard. My neck hurt for 3 days afterwards. I drove the car first in the morning about 5 laps and then at speed in the afternoon some 20 or so laps. On the driver side, here's what I think you can do at home: 1. Take all the foam padding out of the bottom as well as the back on the OMP. 2. Since you took the slider off, you can do a bit more by modifying of the brackets to chassis by swapping them side to side. This way the flange goes out away from the seat bottom instead of under it. The holes will not line up anymore. So you will have to drill new holes through the floor at each of the seat rectangular cross braces (part of tub). It's double wall, so you will have to make a bushing to go in between so it supports it from collapsing. By doing this and playing with how the seat is tipped back. You can get a lot more room. There is one thing else you can do, that requires some pretty skilled fabrication. You would have to cut the area of the seat bottom composite where it interferes with the lateral seat mounting brace. Move it up a bit and re-bond it with appropriate composite and expoxy resin. Fabricating a custom seat to where your butt is right on the floor is always an option if your torso is longer than mine. However, I'm 6'1" with only 32" inseam so my torso is long and I'm now able to sit in both seats with my helmet just barely touching. Building your own cage could really be the big benefit as you could tip the back a bit further as right now it hits the cross brace too soon as well as the upper portions. We could do this for you if you need it as we build most of the cages in the pro and amateur cars we prepare. There's always a way. Worse case I'd have to say was a number of years ago I had a project to fit a 6-6" customer into is 512S! We extended the footbox about 8" which is scary since your feet are already in front of the front axle center line. The tubing up there is only about as big around as my index finger too!!! We then had to cut a hole in the roof and fabricate/installed an aluminum bubble for the helmet to fit up into. Good luck D | ||
| Mitch Alsup (Mitch_alsup)
Member Username: Mitch_alsup Post Number: 710 Registered: 4-2002 |
"I would still like to find another inch of headroom without removing too many vertebrae" You could notch your helmet for roll bar clearance, but it might be hard to get it part the scrutineers..... | ||
| Rob Lay (Rob328gts)
Board Administrator Username: Rob328gts Post Number: 5090 Registered: 12-2000 |
I would still like to find another inch of headroom without removing too many vertebrae. | ||
| Rob Schermerhorn (Rexrcr)
Member Username: Rexrcr Post Number: 622 Registered: 11-2002 |
1. Six point standard OMP belts. The really nice ones, formula car style with separate anti-subs that run across your thigh, through a D-ring on the lap belt, then insert the shoulder belt clip through the end-loop on the anti-sub. Keeps pressure away from most-sensitive area. Worth buying a new set just for this feature. Also, belts are degraded by UV light, so if yours are a couple years old, buy some new ones. 2. Sounds like you're set here. 3. You've got the technique. The idea is to stretch the carcass of the tire. The internal friction contributes a lot to warm-up. So you can also do brake-turn combinations as well as heavy acceleration. And if you go full throttle at relatively low rpm, you warm the engine without risk of cold oil at high rpm. | ||
| Mitch Alsup (Mitch_alsup)
Member Username: Mitch_alsup Post Number: 709 Registered: 4-2002 |
"2) Any ideas for giving me more head room? " Remove 2 vertebrae {{{donning fire suit}}} | ||
| Rob Lay (Rob328gts)
Board Administrator Username: Rob328gts Post Number: 5085 Registered: 12-2000 |
?'s... 1) Did the Challenge cars only run 4 point harnesses or is mine just missing the "racker"? 2) Any ideas for giving me more head room? We removed the adjustable frame and put the seat on the floor. We moved it back where I had good leg and arm bend. We then raked it to the max to give me more head room. I like the "pimped" out position anyway as I have to do this in most cars. I'm only 6'1", but I think most of my height is above the belt. My legs are only like 31-32". I would like another inch of head room. 3) How many laps before the slicks get good traction in them. DOT's take me about 1-2 laps, but I swerve and brake the heck out of them on the out lap. | ||
| Rob Schermerhorn (Rexrcr)
Member Username: Rexrcr Post Number: 620 Registered: 11-2002 |
Answers to new q's: 1. Yes. There is/was a breather/catch-can update for Challenge. I always ran first Agip, then Shell, because the price was right (free) for Challenge. Mobil synthetic is fine, other fully synthetics (GL5 for R&P) are good too. I've also used Neo and Redline. 2. Yes, blue can available nationwide at Ford stores. 3. Approx. 75 ft-lb. 4. OEM | ||
| Rob Lay (Rob328gts)
Board Administrator Username: Rob328gts Post Number: 5048 Registered: 12-2000 |
Updates so far... 1) Pagid Cermaic Grey pad's. 2) Ferrari alignment shims 3, 2, & 1's. 3) Nylock nuts. Additional questions... 1) Does the 355 have a rear transaxle, I guess what I really want to know is if it has the same oil reservoir? Also, what oil do you recommend for this? 2) Rob S., I believe the Ford brake fluid you're talking about is just what they sell at the local dealer DOT 3 high performance. That's what I use for the Rx7 racing as I was told it's the best quality for the money. 3) What should I torque my wheels at? 4) Which oil filter do you recommend? | ||
| Rob Schermerhorn (Rexrcr)
Member Username: Rexrcr Post Number: 619 Registered: 11-2002 |
Rob, list looks like a great start. Add alignment shims to spares if you plan on adjustments. Get them from Ferrari. They come in 1, 1.5, 2, 2.5, & 3 mm thicknesses. I used lots of 3, 2, & 1's, and only a few 1.5's typically. Buy a few Nylock nuts to fit the suspension forks where the alignment shims go. Eventually, the nylon breaks down, you loose the security of additional torque retention, and must put a new one on. I think they're M14 x 1.5, but measure them, I don't have a car here now. These require a 22mm socket, and a 22mm closed-end wrench bent into a "C" shape to make the adjustments. Metric & Multistandard sells wrenches too for reasonable cost if you can't find it at Sears. I bleed brakes every couple sessions when testing, or every session during organized events 'cause there's so little track time and more time to do maintenance. Take a look here http://www.ferrarichat.com/discus/messages/251280/216919.html for an abreviated maintenance list and details on the Ford HD brake fluid. Get familiar with the Pi system and pack a printer and letter and legal size paper for printing your lap data. | ||
| Rob Schermerhorn (Rexrcr)
Member Username: Rexrcr Post Number: 618 Registered: 11-2002 |
IME Pagid orange is WAY too soft. You'll just turn them to dust, literally, which is why Jonathan experiences high rotor wear (the dust acts as an abrasive). Switching to Pagid blue (the only Challenge legal pad back then), or better yet, their ceramic grey pad will improve rotor wear and improve pedal feel, and improve brake torque. | ||
| Jonathan Garrett Donner (Jgd)
Junior Member Username: Jgd Post Number: 64 Registered: 2-2003 |
P:S, I forgot, you will want to change your brake fluid after every track day or 2 as you will definately boil it and the Pagid orange's will tear hell out of your rotors so have spairs. | ||
| Jonathan Garrett Donner (Jgd)
Junior Member Username: Jgd Post Number: 63 Registered: 2-2003 |
Hello Rob, Some Thoughts: I run my 97 355 on the track almost every other weekend, Your list looks good except I would change my oil after every track day or if you do a Saturday and a Sunday change your oil right after, High RPM's are hard on oil and it is Cheap insurance for your engine. Also run Water Wetter in your cooling system it will help bring temp down. Have fun! | ||
| Rob Lay (Rob328gts)
Board Administrator Username: Rob328gts Post Number: 5046 Registered: 12-2000 |
Ok Rob S., I read through the previous 355 Challenge threads, although I haven't read through your lowering and other tech messages yet. I also posted it in Tech Q&A like I should of done the other, I was warned by the board admin that I would be banned, so I shaped up.  After reading through today's thread and the long one from a few months ago I'm trying to throw all the info into a quick read list. I guess I could use feedback on... 1) Any other parts or tools I should have on hand. I have a full metric tool box and the basic racing tools I need with the Rx7. 2) Any set-up points I'm missing. 3) Any services that I should add to my list or if you disagree with the frequency of the ones I've listed. Here's my initial page, please be critical. BTW, my data acquisition is a Pi. http://www.ferrarichat.com/discus/raceteam/355_challenge_setup_and_service.htm I hope to have my first session in it Saturday or Sunday. |