| Author | Message | ||
| Verell Boaen (Verell)
Member Username: Verell Post Number: 880 Registered: 5-2001 |
Once checking has begun, you've got to strip down to a layer with no sign of checking, often this means down to bare metal. At some point some bozo repainted my bonnet with a 2-stage (base/clear) system on top of the original paint w/o a layer of sealer. Apparently the base/clear was incompatible with the base paint. There are ~3/8" checks all along the spoiler. So when I get to it, I'll be stripping my bonnet down at least as far as the primer. If the primer has any signs of checking or other defects, the next stage is to strip it off, probably all the way down to metal. I'm not looking fwd to doing this as I'm sure it will take 20 or 30 hours work if I have to go down to metal. Luckily only the bonnet received this treatment. | ||
| Neil Green (Neilg)
Junior Member Username: Neilg Post Number: 105 Registered: 2-2001 |
Verell, the paint on my car was checking everywhere. The painter suggested a bare metal repaint was the only way to ensure I wouldn't have any latent problems down the road. I understand that around 1980 or so, many 308's were being repainted (at factory expense), due to the problems encountered with lacquer paint being applied over so much filler material...unfortunately mine never got this work done...it was a real eyesore, so it really wasn't much of a decision for me in going ahead with a repaint.... | ||
| Verell Boaen (Verell)
Member Username: Verell Post Number: 871 Registered: 5-2001 |
Neilg, If your underlying paint is unsound, or doubtful, then you've made the right call. It's when the underlying paint is sound, but just faded/scratched/chipped a bit that a respray should be considered. Especially if the car is pretty new, or you know that the car was completely stripped & repainted a few years ago. Any checking, other signs of general paint deterioration, or it's already been resprayed once or twice, are indications that it better be stripped down to the primer or further if the primer doesn't look sound. | ||
| Neil Green (Neilg)
Junior Member Username: Neilg Post Number: 104 Registered: 2-2001 |
Thanks, Barry. He is an independent, so the cost was much cheaper than a dealer for sure. I was lucky enough to catch him when he had a relatively quiet winter job list. He mainly fabricates roll cages, etc now, but he does paint cars from time to time as well. | ||
| Andrew A. Illes (Andyilles)
Junior Member Username: Andyilles Post Number: 129 Registered: 10-2002 |
To those looking for a "primo" shop in the SE... try Fred Cox's Auto Acrylics in Oakland Park, Fl. AMAZING work, and mainline prices. | ||
| Barry Wolinsky (308gtb)
Member Username: 308gtb Post Number: 578 Registered: 2-2002 |
Neil, Don't let the Forza editor's comments place any doubts in your mind as to your repaint. You had an experienced, careful and thoughtful professional do your restoration. Barry | ||
| Neil Green (Neilg)
Junior Member Username: Neilg Post Number: 103 Registered: 2-2001 |
Mark, a while ago before I started the repaint project, I polled FerariChatters', and I believe at least 90% said to go the complete strip to bare metal route - there is just no short cut if you want it to come out right...I know what you mean about the cost...as I mentioned in a previous post, the dealer wants $20K to do that type of job...it is a lot of labor... | ||
| Mark Eberhardt (Me_k)
Member Username: Me_k Post Number: 585 Registered: 5-2002 |
Neil, beautiful...., I�ve got to do mine soon, I took notes  It will have to wait one more year I think. I was considering a respray last year and headed out to get a couple quotes. I talked to the guys at the first shop, they had come highly recommended and got a price. I hasn�t sure who else to talk to so I stopped by to chat with a guy I know who builds drag cars and hot rod, I figured he�d know everyone worth knowing. He�s a great guy, maybe 25-30 years older than me, does great work. Anyway, I pulled the car in and he came out since he hadn�t seen it yet. I asked him about repainting and it turns out he paints all the cars he builds and took me to show me one he just finished, looked great. Then I asked for a price - $8K-10K (the first quote was $4500). I�m sure he could see the concern on my face, so he explained it to me. He said, �you want it right don�t you? Epoxy primer? Urethane clear? No ripples or dings anywhere? Just the materials will run about 1500$ Another $3000 or so to prep and paint. If the car was only 4-5 years I would have asked if you wanted it stripped or not, but the car is over 20 years old, I don�t know what�s under that paint, but I can see that the paint is in poor shape. Do you want me to do $4500 over god knows what? Bring it in stripped and disassembled and the bill will be 4500-5000, drop it off running and it will be 8000-10000� It made sense, but I still went back to talk to the guys at the first shop and asked about stripping, they told me �well sure it will come out a lot better if we strip it�. I decided to wait until I had time or money to strip it first. | ||
| Neil Green (Neilg)
Junior Member Username: Neilg Post Number: 102 Registered: 2-2001 |
Thanks Norm. I thought going to bare metal was the way to go as well. I can see the Forza writer's point of view, but I disagree... | ||
| Norm (32storm)
New member Username: 32storm Post Number: 27 Registered: 5-2003 |
Nice job on your 308. It looks great! when it comes to paint, always worth taking the time, or paying someone to do the job properly. As far as a tape & spray, save your money. I couldn't have disagreed with the Forza article more. What's the point of spending the money on a half-ass job. Especially with a Ferrari. I can't think of anything worse than I quicky blitz job. anytime I see a high-end car that has blitz job, it makes me wonder where else did they cut corners. A nice paint job is worthwhile investment that should look great for a number of years. | ||
| Barry A. Freda (308barry)
New member Username: 308barry Post Number: 2 Registered: 6-2003 |
For those of you in the NY tri-state area looking for a quality shop - Sports Car Painting in Long Island City, NY - Enzo Pantusa - Top Notch Guy. | ||
| Verell Boaen (Verell)
Member Username: Verell Post Number: 830 Registered: 5-2001 |
re: Respray A quality respray over sound paint should be very very hard to distinguish from a bare metal strip & repaint. It will probably cost 30%-40% of a full strip & refinish. A quality respray would involve thoroughly stripping all wax from the finish, then DA & block sanding it with 600 or 800 grit. All dents smoothed out & any paint chips, cracks, etc. feather sanded, spot primed, filled with a finishing/sealing filler then block sanded using a guide coat until smooth with the rest of the original finish. If there's any doubt as to whether the original finish is fully compatible with the new finish then a sandable sealer coat must be sprayed on & block sanded w/600 grit. Once this is done, the process becomes identical to the final stages of a full strip & repaint. A catalyzed urethane triple color coat sprayed on, then block sanded with 600-800 & a final triple color coat, or multiple base coats followed by a clear coat. If there's any hint of orange peal, then block sand with 1200, 1500, & 2000 grit, then compound & glaze. I just did this to the my 308's panels between below the recessed trim line the front & rear wheel wells after removing rust bubbles from the rocker panel seams. The refinishing probably took me 50 or 60 hours of work, but I was doing it all myself & being overly cautious as I hadn't done refinish work in about 10 years. Now I've got to go color sand & compound the rest of the car as it doesn't have as good a finish as my resprayed panels. | ||
| Barry Wolinsky (308gtb)
Member Username: 308gtb Post Number: 553 Registered: 2-2002 |
Right, Neil, it is a beast. I'm sure not too many are around today. The ANSA also weighs about 25 pounds. | ||
| Neil Green (Neilg)
Junior Member Username: Neilg Post Number: 101 Registered: 2-2001 |
Barry, that's the beast I removed from my car as well! You are right, 80 pounds was probably being too conservative. Mine was completely plugged up when I initially purchased the car, and needed immediate replacement. | ||
| Barry Wolinsky (308gtb)
Member Username: 308gtb Post Number: 552 Registered: 2-2002 |
Neil, That's an early 80's ANSA on my car. The original thermoreactor muffler is in my garage. I think it weighs over 100 pounds!  Barry | ||
| Paul (Pcelenta)
Member Username: Pcelenta Post Number: 346 Registered: 7-2002 |
a tape and respray would be around $2-3K...it involves less removal of trim...a quick scuff of the existing paint and probably some spot priming and then application of an enamel paint...the end result we be a car with shiney paint (some orange peel) with no were near the quality that you see on neils car.... | ||
| Neil Green (Neilg)
Junior Member Username: Neilg Post Number: 100 Registered: 2-2001 |
Barry, the exhaust on my car (Tubi Style muffler) was probably the single best purchase I have made on the car to date (minus the paint job!) The old thermoreactor muffler must've weighed 80 lbs or so, the Tubi around 25 pounds...plus can't beat the sound of the Tubi... Sean, unfortunately I have no idea as to what a tape and spray would cost (I never looked into that option)... | ||
| Sean F (Agracer)
Junior Member Username: Agracer Post Number: 185 Registered: 2-2003 |
Neil or anyone, let me rephrase. What would a tape and spray that Glydon recommends run ?? (not a bare metal spray as Neil has done) | ||
| Barry Wolinsky (308gtb)
Member Username: 308gtb Post Number: 547 Registered: 2-2002 |
Neil, Looking at the pictures of your car, I noticed that your 1977 was one of those GTBs with the transitional exhaust shield. You have the same rear valance as on my '76, but the fiberglass GTBs were never fitted with the lower shield.  Again, Neil, Redline did a beautiful job! Barry | ||
| Neil Green (Neilg)
Junior Member Username: Neilg Post Number: 99 Registered: 2-2001 |
Barry, thanks. I hope the weather takes a turn for the better here in Upstate New York. Only had it out twice so far. Sean, about a year ago, I got a verbal quote over the phone from a Ferrari dealer. The quote for a complete bare metal repaint was $20K! Obviously, I went with the local guy who has a much lower per hour labor rate. It is best to figure around 200-225 hrs or so to have it done right. I ended up around $10.5K when all was said and done. The amount of filler underneath these cars is astounding, which required much more work than was originally anticipated...... | ||
| Barry Wolinsky (308gtb)
Member Username: 308gtb Post Number: 546 Registered: 2-2002 |
Neil, It looks like it was worth the wait. He did a beautiful job over the winter months. You can enjoy your car now that nice weather is here. Barry | ||
| Sean F (Agracer)
Junior Member Username: Agracer Post Number: 181 Registered: 2-2003 |
So what would a tape and spray that Glydon recommends run? I saw your bare metal respray was ~$10K which seems to be the # I hear a lot when you factor in the labor required. | ||
| Neil Green (Neilg)
Junior Member Username: Neilg Post Number: 98 Registered: 2-2001 |
Barry, it was a trying time there for a bit with the painter to be sure. Neither of us had any idea that the factory used THAT much filler! Overall, we both enjoyed the project, but it sure was challenging! Axel, your car looks great! I would leave it as-is. My car as well had minor checking al over, but I just got tired of looking at it - it looked great in the sun, but when it was overcast, not so good... | ||
| axel wulff (Axel)
New member Username: Axel Post Number: 15 Registered: 5-2003 |
Neil Thanks for the help and info on the removal of the 308 GTB 1/4 windows. I have now removed the headliner and rear shelf for fabric replacement. I dicided to leave the paint as is .. its not too bad for 23 years old. regards axel  | ||
| Barry Wolinsky (308gtb)
Member Username: 308gtb Post Number: 543 Registered: 2-2002 |
Neil, My car has the original paint with just minor checking and doesn't require repainting. I enjoyed your technician's comments about Ferrari construction and his thoughts about another such project. Perhaps he'll change his mind and be of great service to another owner one day. Barry | ||
| Neil Green (Neilg)
Junior Member Username: Neilg Post Number: 97 Registered: 2-2001 |
Barry, thanks for the comments. The painter was very good about documenting exactly what he was doing every step of the way. It was a much more involved process than I ever realized. Are you considering such a project? | ||
| Barry Wolinsky (308gtb)
Member Username: 308gtb Post Number: 541 Registered: 2-2002 |
Neil, I've been following this. Redline did a beautiful job! You were fortunate to have such a thoughtful and intuitive professional do your restoration. Barry | ||
| Neil Green (Neilg)
Junior Member Username: Neilg Post Number: 96 Registered: 2-2001 |
Thanks, Peter. Also, thanks again for the window crank! WIll certainly come in handy if the windows give me trouble.... | ||
| '75 308 GT4 (Peter)
Advanced Member Username: Peter Post Number: 2821 Registered: 12-2000 |
That is gorgeous Neil! Well done!!!  | ||
| Charles I Claussen (Atlantaman)
Junior Member Username: Atlantaman Post Number: 197 Registered: 3-2002 |
We all need info on bodyshops from time to time. Since Steed-Caskey (Greensboro, NC) closed, I have not been able to find a quality shop in the Southeast. When someone finds a "concourse quality" body shop, please post info on it for us all. It is not an easy thing to leave your baby with an unknown. | ||
| Charles I Claussen (Atlantaman)
Junior Member Username: Atlantaman Post Number: 196 Registered: 3-2002 |
I recently finished doing my car myself and it took almost 1 full year. Not to mention the nasty bronchitis I got from the chemicals. If you try this yourself get a "fresh air compressor/respirator" disosyniate does right thru even the best of the twin -pak respirators. get it done professionally!!! this is NOT an easy project. | ||
| Neil Green (Neilg)
Junior Member Username: Neilg Post Number: 95 Registered: 2-2001 |
Axel, Sean: the Forza article is Joseph Glydon's (Forza's Shop Talk editor) response to a letter I wrote to Forza several months ago when I began this undertaking. Unfortunately the painting effort is all done now by the time the issue came out! Joe raised some excellent points about the pros and cons of doing this. For me, it wasn't about resale value, etc as I plan to hold onto the car as long as I'm around. But keeping original paint is a good arguement as well. It's up to the owner as to what they desire for their 308. With respect to the 1/4 windows removal, I did this before delivery to the paint shop. On my '77, there is a thin vertical vinyl-covered panel (held in by 2 screws) that have to be removed (directly behind the headrests on both driver & passenger sides) - underneath this panel was three rivets each I had to drill out. Once this was accomplished, the windows (with rubber seals intact) both came out(unfortunately no pics). The driver side (where fuel filler is) was a little tricky, but doing the above facilitated its' removal as well. Keep us informed as to whether you decide to go ahead with a paint job... | ||
| axel wulff (Axel)
New member Username: Axel Post Number: 10 Registered: 5-2003 |
Sean No..I did not get his months Forza .. its always late in the mail. Does it have 1/4 window removal instructions ? if so I will find the issue at the news stand tommorrow. Thanks in advance. regards axel | ||
| axel wulff (Axel)
New member Username: Axel Post Number: 9 Registered: 5-2003 |
Neil The paint job looks great. Well worth the 3 month wait (good work takes time). I noticed the 1/4 windows were removed. I also whish to remove 1/4 windows from my 308GTB but am worried about damage. Would you have some short "step by step" instructions on how to remove them safely. I want to retain the condition of the rubber seals etc.. but need a starting point and some idea as to what to expect. regards Axel. | ||
| Sean F (Agracer)
Junior Member Username: Agracer Post Number: 178 Registered: 2-2003 |
Did either of you read the answer about the bare metal repaint in the tech column in this months Forza? | ||
| axel wulff (Axel)
New member Username: Axel Post Number: 8 Registered: 5-2003 |
Neil Very nice. It looks like it was worth the 5 months of waiting. (good prep work takes time). I am looking at stripping my 308GTB down .. but I am kind of stuck on how the 1/4 window glass comes out. (I do not want to break anything). Any ideas on how it was done on yours? Any comments would be appriciated.. axel | ||
| Neil Green (Neilg)
Junior Member Username: Neilg Post Number: 94 Registered: 2-2001 |
A few months ago I went through the process of having my '77 308GTB repainted (bare metal). The web site the painter created during this undertaking is attached below. I included some final paint pics. It was a long 5 months, but I feel it was worth it. The web site is good reading for anyone considering this undertaking. P.S. I use the board for getting out of my driveway so the front spoiler doesn't hit - crude method but works! http://www.homestead.com/redlinerennsport/Ferrari.html   |