| Author |
Message |
stacy o'blenes (Stacy)
New member
Username: Stacy
Post Number: 49
Registered: 8-2001
| | Posted on Friday, April 19, 2002 - 8:52 am: | |
Bill,
I didn't count the teeth but if you check the cut-away drawing of the rack in the 308 workshop manual you can see how the rack is designed. |
Bill Sebestyen (Bill308)
Junior Member
Username: Bill308
Post Number: 166
Registered: 5-2001
| | Posted on Thursday, April 18, 2002 - 8:45 pm: | |
Stacy,
Not to belabor this point, but this is most unexpected. Can you see how many teeth protrude on the driver's side at full lock?
|
stacy o'blenes (Stacy)
New member
Username: Stacy
Post Number: 48
Registered: 8-2001
| | Posted on Thursday, April 18, 2002 - 7:39 pm: | |
Bill,
You can only see the toothed part of the rack on the drivers side. |
Edward Gault (Irfgt)
Intermediate Member
Username: Irfgt
Post Number: 1116
Registered: 2-2001
| | Posted on Thursday, April 18, 2002 - 7:38 pm: | |
In all the explodes pictures that are in all my service manuals the rack only protrudes on the left side. Manual racks simply do not give any trouble. In all my years of repair work I have never disassembled a manual rack becaues they will outlast the car with no maintenance. I have had a bunch of power racks apart as the early ones gave a bunch of trouble. They seal internally and any fluid loss will destroy the outer boots. I am eventually going to disassemble the rack on my car and when I go back together will use lithium grease as everyone else in the free world does. |
Bill Sebestyen (Bill308)
Junior Member
Username: Bill308
Post Number: 164
Registered: 5-2001
| | Posted on Thursday, April 18, 2002 - 7:10 pm: | |
Stacy,
Are you saying that you can actually see the toothed portion of the rack, under the boot, when you are at full lock? How much protrudes? Does this also occur on the passenger side at full right lock? |
Edward Gault (Irfgt)
Intermediate Member
Username: Irfgt
Post Number: 1108
Registered: 2-2001
| | Posted on Thursday, April 18, 2002 - 3:40 pm: | |
I am just glad that I did not put any money on that. Never bet on Ferrari technology. |
stacy o'blenes (Stacy)
New member
Username: Stacy
Post Number: 47
Registered: 8-2001
| | Posted on Thursday, April 18, 2002 - 12:08 pm: | |
Ed,
Thanks for helping figure that out. I am glad to hear that everything should be ok the way I filled my rack. It may be that the rack in the newer 308's like yours is greased instead of filled with oil. The workshop manual (and owners manual) for my car clearly calls for about 200cc of gear oil. My old MG is filled with oil as well.
Thanks again |
Edward Gault (Irfgt)
Intermediate Member
Username: Irfgt
Post Number: 1105
Registered: 2-2001
| | Posted on Thursday, April 18, 2002 - 11:40 am: | |
As I stated earlier there could be something different about a Ferrari rack and pinion . I looked through all my Service manuals and with the exception of Porsche, all manual rack and pinion steering systems are simply lubricated for life with lithium grease and no internal seals. Porsche calls for gear oil. Evidently Ferrari uses the outer boots as an internal oil seal and dust boot to contain what ever thin lubricant they recommend. The pressure equalization for the boots must be from air leaks internally inside the rack housing. I feel a permanent lithium lubricant would be a better choice since I have never seen a manual rack and pinion steering unit worn out with the exception of Ferrari. I wish you could buy seperate parts for the steering rack instead of having to buy the assembly. This also makes me wonder where the oil is in my rack because it sure isn't in the boots. |
Edward Gault (Irfgt)
Intermediate Member
Username: Irfgt
Post Number: 1103
Registered: 2-2001
| | Posted on Thursday, April 18, 2002 - 11:02 am: | |
Good point, I don't have a damn clue. |
stacy o'blenes (Stacy)
New member
Username: Stacy
Post Number: 46
Registered: 8-2001
| | Posted on Thursday, April 18, 2002 - 7:10 am: | |
Ed,
Can you describe to me how the "inner seal" on the drivers side of the rack works? As far as I can tell when you steer to the left the toothed part of the rack actually protrudes beyond the end of the tube into the boot. I can't imagine how you would effectively seal this around the teeth on the rack.
Thanks |
magoo (Magoo)
Intermediate Member
Username: Magoo
Post Number: 2478
Registered: 2-2001
| | Posted on Wednesday, April 17, 2002 - 9:18 pm: | |
Ditto Ed. |
Edward Gault (Irfgt)
Intermediate Member
Username: Irfgt
Post Number: 1098
Registered: 2-2001
| | Posted on Wednesday, April 17, 2002 - 8:55 pm: | |
The purpose of the outer boots or bellows is to keep the inner seals clean from outside elements so that they do not leak. Since the outer boots on a ferrari do not have equalizer tubes that connect each other together, without venting each boot with a small hole they would collapse or explode when you turn each way. With a small hole to vent you would have an oil leak if they contained oil. I pulled each of my boots loose just out of curiosity and each of them were dry inside with no trace of oil ever have been there. |
magoo (Magoo)
Intermediate Member
Username: Magoo
Post Number: 2469
Registered: 2-2001
| | Posted on Wednesday, April 17, 2002 - 8:40 pm: | |
Also Stacy, If you were to replace any oil in the rack it would be to remove the plate on the rack on the drivers side. You can access this plate by removing the L/F wheel. Other than that there is no other entry I know of to the inside of the rack. |
magoo (Magoo)
Intermediate Member
Username: Magoo
Post Number: 2467
Registered: 2-2001
| | Posted on Wednesday, April 17, 2002 - 8:31 pm: | |
Internal seals keep the fluid in the rack. The boots act as dust covers only, not a oil seal. |
stacy o'blenes (Stacy)
New member
Username: Stacy
Post Number: 45
Registered: 8-2001
| | Posted on Wednesday, April 17, 2002 - 7:35 pm: | |
Ed, Bill,
I may be wrong about this but I think that unilke power steering racks which are sealed, the 308 rack and MG rack has oil (not steering fluid) that flows freely in the rack and into the boots. If you look at the 308 Work Shop Manual it says to check the boots for leaks and if they are leaking to just replace them and refill the rack (nothing about seals). Anybody else have an opinion? |
Bill Sebestyen (Bill308)
Junior Member
Username: Bill308
Post Number: 158
Registered: 5-2001
| | Posted on Wednesday, April 17, 2002 - 6:45 pm: | |
I'd bet you're correct Edward. IMHO, oil in the boot can do nothing good and will likely accelerate deterioration of the boot. |
Edward Gault (Irfgt)
Intermediate Member
Username: Irfgt
Post Number: 1089
Registered: 2-2001
| | Posted on Wednesday, April 17, 2002 - 3:56 pm: | |
Unless there is something different about a Ferrari rack and pinion that I do not know about, there is not supposed to be any lube inside the outer rack boots. This is the way it is on every kind of car I have ever worked on and seen. If you have lubricant inside the bellows you have bad rack inner seals. Any lubricant inside the bellows will swell the thing and eventually rupture the thing. Someone correct me if I am wrong. |
stacy o'blenes (Stacy)
New member
Username: Stacy
Post Number: 44
Registered: 8-2001
| | Posted on Wednesday, April 17, 2002 - 1:41 pm: | |
There have been a couple threads about replacing the oil in 308 steering racks. I just had to replace a torn rack boot and replace the oil that had leaked out of mine. I found a neat trick on an MG site that worked well to refill the oil in the rack. Basically you slip a small tube into the small end of one of the boots along the tie rod. You can pump oil into the rack through this tube (I used an old syringe). It is easy because you don't have to remove the cover of the rack, etc... You need to go slow so that the oil can work it's was into the rack and I think it helps to jack up the side you are working on so the oil drains to the other side. Every once in a while I removed the tube, snuged up the clamp and then moved the rack from side to side to help get the oil in. I was able to get the required 200cc in without any problem. I hope some of you find this helpful |