| Author |
Message |
Andrew A. Illes (Andyilles)
Junior Member
Username: Andyilles
Post Number: 104
Registered: 10-2002
| | Posted on Tuesday, June 17, 2003 - 6:03 pm: | |
Verell... Sorry, I didn't notice your mentioning the weighted-beam. Guess I got too excited about your 2-wrench idea to read that far, lol.
Mark, my hat's off to you for that plenum job!!! |
Verell Boaen (Verell)
Member
Username: Verell
Post Number: 839
Registered: 5-2001
| | Posted on Monday, June 16, 2003 - 7:38 pm: | |
Andy,
No argument about weighted beam other than the need for various calibrated weights. I mentioned using the same setup with a known weight in my next to last paragraph. With a known weight you could calibrate both wrenches simultaneously! |
neal (95spiderneal)
Junior Member
Username: 95spiderneal
Post Number: 167
Registered: 3-2002
| | Posted on Monday, June 16, 2003 - 5:23 pm: | |
bought a cheepo 15$ torque wrench at autobarn last year and its been fine and had it calibrated and its still accurate. griots is way too expensive imho regardless of their offer to calibrate |
Chris Aaron (T_rutlands)
New member
Username: T_rutlands
Post Number: 7
Registered: 5-2003
| | Posted on Monday, June 16, 2003 - 5:15 pm: | |
The best torque wrench hands down? It is at your local Ferrari dealer. It is made by USAG and can be had for the low price of $8,000. It is fully electronic and has an LCD screen and LEDs to alert you when you are approaching the set torque. And comes with a carrying case, of course. If you have to have the best, this is it. |
Andrew A. Illes (Andyilles)
Junior Member
Username: Andyilles
Post Number: 103
Registered: 10-2002
| | Posted on Monday, June 16, 2003 - 1:12 pm: | |
Verell... cool idea!! Never thought of that, but you're right, that would at LEAST cut any error in half! I still think a weighted beam is most accurate for checking any type of torque wrench, and the setup is no-brainer-simple, and the result is unarguably accurate (allowing friction losses only). |
Verell Boaen (Verell)
Member
Username: Verell
Post Number: 834
Registered: 5-2001
| | Posted on Saturday, June 14, 2003 - 10:43 pm: | |
Calibration is simple, after all, torque is torque.
You can use a beam (or dial) type torque wrench to check the calibration on your clicker type wrench. All you need is:
- Square female to square female 'socket' to connect the two wrench drives together (ie: weld a couple of sockets together).
-A way to clamp the handle of the lever type wrench (Bench vice with rubber jaws).
- A way to support the drive end of the lever type wrench so that the supporting force is thru the centerline of the wrench. (ie: A workbench top beside the vice.)
1)Hook the two wrenches together with the f-f socket, with the wrenches offset from each other, let's use 90 degrees as it's a handy angle.
2)Lay the joined ends down on the workbench.
Clamp the end of the beam wrench in the vice, making sure that the handle centerline matches the beam centerline. (ie:SOP for a beam wrench, you want to apply force to the beam using the pivot in the middle of the wrench handle.)
3) Pull/push on the wrench being calibrated, in a direction that forces the two drive ends down onto the bench. (If the wrenches are at 90 degrees, then it's away from the vice.)
4)Observe the beam wrench's reading when the clicker wrench clicks. Adjust the clicker until the force setting matches the beam wrench's reading.
There are variations such as clamping the handle of the wrench being calibrated & hanging a known weight off of the handle of the other wrench with it's handle level with the ground. The torque would be weight x beam length (ie: pivot point in handle to center of the square drive.)
Based on the accuracies Rob is quoting, if you're really calibrating a clicker, you should use a dial type wrench as the reference, or else use a weight so you exactly know the torque. |
rob guess (Beast)
New member
Username: Beast
Post Number: 10
Registered: 5-2003
| | Posted on Friday, June 13, 2003 - 10:00 pm: | |
Heres the low down on tourque wrenches.
most beam type wrenches have a +/- 4% range of accuracy but this only is when you are in the top 25% of the scale for example 0-100 ft lb scale the accuracy is only valid from 75-100.
clickers are rated 2% in the top 25% of scale. The problem with clickers are:
1. if you dont replase the spring pressure after use.
2. if the threads are damaged or dirty the wrench could click off early giving yourself a false tourque reading.
3. the internal mechanisim is suceptible to wear requiring frequent calibration checks.
4. the operator will tighten all fasteners to the click yield the run the wrench around one more time. this actually tightens the fastener a little bit more.
My personal preference in tourque wrenches is the dial type. they are typicaly 2% for 40% of full scale. The nice aspect of this type of wrench is that if there is dirt or thread damage the dial indicator will spike then drop back indicating to the operator that something is affecting the tightening of the fastener i currently have 8 different tourque wrenches in my tool box to allow for proper fastening of all fasteners.
most snap on trucks have a device to do a basic calibration check of tourque wrenches. it basicly uses a set lever arm and a dial tourque indicator to compare the tourque being applied to the wrench to the dial.
if you need more info on tourque wrenches email myself at [email protected] and i can get you more info including how to calculate new tourqe settings when using a tourqe adaptor or extension. |
Andrew A. Illes (Andyilles)
Junior Member
Username: Andyilles
Post Number: 100
Registered: 10-2002
| | Posted on Friday, June 13, 2003 - 9:45 pm: | |
Hans has it exactly right for calibration. Rig up a 1' long arm with a socket for the torque wrench at one end.. pivot it under the socket.. hang whatever weight you want at the far end of it.. lift... the torque wrench should read exactly what the weight is.
I'm with Mark.. keep your clickers.. gimme an 'ol beam type ANY day. |
david handa (Davehanda)
Member
Username: Davehanda
Post Number: 985
Registered: 5-2001
| | Posted on Friday, June 13, 2003 - 6:19 pm: | |
BTW, the wrench I have used for the past 15 years is a Utica brand clicker torque wrench. Probably not available everywhere, but carried at many professional tool shops.
I would certainly like to get mine calibrated some day....Maybe I will drop by Griot's sometime and see if they will do it "while I wait"... |
P. Thomas (Ferrari_fanatic)
Member
Username: Ferrari_fanatic
Post Number: 401
Registered: 4-2003
| | Posted on Friday, June 13, 2003 - 6:19 pm: | |
Or you could go the fool proof 17 year old adrenilin junky mode: Torque it until it snaps off, and then back it off a 1/4 turn!
Cheers! |
Mark Eberhardt (Me_k)
Member
Username: Me_k
Post Number: 554
Registered: 5-2002
| | Posted on Friday, June 13, 2003 - 5:53 pm: | |
I think what Rob and Paul said is probably right, for most stuff like wheels a clicker is fine. I would not get anywhere near a head or rod bolt with one though.
When I do need to use a clicker for something I care about, I snug it in the vise and use my beam wrench to apply a load, then adjust the clicker to click when the beam says the torque is right, not caring what the numbers on the clicker say, I know it's clicking at the right torque. It is not calibrated, but it is properly set |
Paul Jeffery (Peajay)
Junior Member
Username: Peajay
Post Number: 67
Registered: 4-2002
| | Posted on Friday, June 13, 2003 - 5:23 pm: | |
Calibration is not really a DIY possibility, in industry there are some pretty expensive load cell systems used. I have no idea what the average garage would use. What you could do is borrow a friends wrench and torque a nut with each at a couple of settings and see if you get the click at the same amount. Not extremely accurate, but frankly there are probably no torques on any vehicle that really need to be more than about 10% accurate, design margins are just not that tight, or at least never should be. So long as it is about the same as another wrench you try, I wouldn't worry about it. |
Hans E. Hansen (4re_gt4)
Intermediate Member
Username: 4re_gt4
Post Number: 1503
Registered: 4-2002
| | Posted on Friday, June 13, 2003 - 5:11 pm: | |
Yeah, Dave. I think that is what kills a lot of these wrenches - leaving them in a 'fully torqued' setting, if you know what I mean. I'd prefer not to have to ship it. Must be something 'standard' that I can twist with it just to check.
Hmmm..... Probably could rig up some lever-like gizmo with a suspended weight. Like a bar 1 foot long, with perhaps 50 lbs of weight on the end. Move the weight with the torque wrench - should be 50 lb-ft, no? |
david handa (Davehanda)
Member
Username: Davehanda
Post Number: 984
Registered: 5-2001
| | Posted on Friday, June 13, 2003 - 4:38 pm: | |
Griot's Garage will calibrate your torque wrench, they charge $25 plus shipping each way for the service.
Probably not a bad idea, even if you take proper care to not drop it, and undo the torque setting after use. |
Hans E. Hansen (4re_gt4)
Intermediate Member
Username: 4re_gt4
Post Number: 1501
Registered: 4-2002
| | Posted on Friday, June 13, 2003 - 2:36 pm: | |
How do you calibrate one? Is there a way to DIY? |
Paul Jeffery (Peajay)
Junior Member
Username: Peajay
Post Number: 66
Registered: 4-2002
| | Posted on Friday, June 13, 2003 - 1:52 pm: | |
I have lots of experience with aviation use, basically you are correct that clicker torque wrenches are essentially less accurate, however they are much easier to use. You can set them to a given torque and get a repetitive value (need frequent calibration checks of course) and once you set the value you want you cannot to mis-read the value and can be torqued without visual check. All in all just more practical for frequent and repetitive torquing, and as mentioned more compact. |
P. Thomas (Ferrari_fanatic)
Member
Username: Ferrari_fanatic
Post Number: 400
Registered: 4-2003
| | Posted on Friday, June 13, 2003 - 1:14 pm: | |
Why is it then that the aviation mechanics use Snap On clickers that have to be certified accuracy?? |
Mark Eberhardt (Me_k)
Member
Username: Me_k
Post Number: 552
Registered: 5-2002
| | Posted on Friday, June 13, 2003 - 11:52 am: | |
The best torque wrench is anyone that is not a clicker. The simpler and much cheaper beam type are much more accutrate and can never go out of calibration. The clicker type was origanally invented for places you just can't get into with a beam type. You real should check the calibration each time you use it, they tend to drift +/- 20%. I never been able to get a clicker anything or any brand through cal guys at work. I bought some fancy head bolts for a p-car and they specifically said the warrenty was void if I used a clicker wrench when I installed them. I suggest you buy any $20 beam type, it will be dead on and stay that way for the rest of your life. |
Sean F (Agracer)
Junior Member
Username: Agracer
Post Number: 196
Registered: 2-2003
| | Posted on Friday, June 13, 2003 - 10:28 am: | |
Snap On, but it will set you back $200. |
Kelly (Tifosi1)
Member
Username: Tifosi1
Post Number: 658
Registered: 2-2002
| | Posted on Friday, June 13, 2003 - 9:40 am: | |
Well the lock broke, I had it on 90lbs to torque down my lug nuts. now I'm doing a 30k and was troqueing down my water pump at 45. you know the main pulley nut and it would not click. So, i loosed it and used a pointer torque wrench.
I go to torque down my cam spockets and the handle cam off.
Piece of crap.
kelly |
Dennis (Bighead)
Junior Member
Username: Bighead
Post Number: 139
Registered: 2-2003
| | Posted on Friday, June 13, 2003 - 9:20 am: | |
Kelly -
A good, uh, friend of mine had a problem with his snap-on torque wrench. He went to Sears, bought a new one, then returned the old, broken one. Sears didn't protest -- although the wrench's warranty is only 90 days, per the sticker on the box, Sears (now?) has a "full satisfaction guaranteed" policy.
Clearly, I, er, he, wasn't satisfied.
vty,
--Dennis |
Ali Haas (Aehaas)
New member
Username: Aehaas
Post Number: 22
Registered: 5-2003
| | Posted on Friday, June 13, 2003 - 8:53 am: | |
Most professional mechanics I know use SnapOn.
aehaas |
P. Thomas (Ferrari_fanatic)
Member
Username: Ferrari_fanatic
Post Number: 399
Registered: 4-2003
| | Posted on Friday, June 13, 2003 - 8:51 am: | |
One year warranty? I thought all Craftman tools had a lifetime warranty. I used to walk rusty old tools in without a receipt and the lady would say, throw that old one in the bin a nd go grab another. Is it only on their torque wrenches?? |
Rob Schermerhorn (Rexrcr)
Member
Username: Rexrcr
Post Number: 675
Registered: 11-2002
| | Posted on Friday, June 13, 2003 - 8:45 am: | |
For torquing wheels, go get another Craftsman.
What broke? I have a few, and the only thing damaged is two of them lost the locking function, but still work fine.
If you're building engines, invest in an expensive beam type design. |
Kelly (Tifosi1)
Member
Username: Tifosi1
Post Number: 657
Registered: 2-2002
| | Posted on Friday, June 13, 2003 - 8:24 am: | |
I got one from Craftsman and it only came with a 90 day warranty, well it's about one year old, and it's broke.
Any advise???
kelly |