| Author | Message | ||
| Jeff B. (Miltonian)
Member Username: Miltonian Post Number: 360 Registered: 12-2002 |
If I remember correctly, on the Nippondenso starter there is a "contact kit" that traditionally goes bad and is reasonably easy to obtain and install. It isn't a Ferrari-specific item. I watched while the Alternator shop replaced it on the bench, took about 15 minutes. In my case, this didn't solve my problem, but it was obviously corroded pretty badly and needed to be done. Good information on the voltage check. | ||
| Vasilis K. (Goyal99)
New member Username: Goyal99 Post Number: 21 Registered: 3-2002 |
Okay, guys - thanks for your emails and suggestions to my problem. Just for an update, I know now my starter is DEAD. I followed Jeff's suggestion and bridged the starter terminals together, but the starter did not engage...I heard a few clicks from the starter but it did not turn over...I measured the voltage from the battery post at the starter terminal and it registered +12.8V. The voltage from the ignition switch (when turning ignition key to start) to the other starter post was measured at +12.5V....So there's plenty of juice to turn the starter over, but no luck. I took out the starter and today I will take it to a local place for rebuild....I will update you with news when I install it back on the car. VK  | ||
| J R K (Kenyon)
Member Username: Kenyon Post Number: 393 Registered: 10-2002 |
Vasilis, The check if the starter is bad. Take if off and connect up to another battery. The starter is good should be able to hear engage. If it does that then the wiring leads in the car have been exposed to heat and turned hard. This happened to me on my Maserati. The main isolation switch (kills all the electrics) is located at the front of the car. Open the boot lid and next to the headlight pods there is a round knob that says on and off. Mine is located on the driver side (LHD). Its nect to the knob for lifting the headlight pod. The isolation knob is shown in the car manaul. | ||
| Ernie (Ernie)
Member Username: Ernie Post Number: 719 Registered: 11-2001 |
Vasilis I had a problem starting my car once. Your problem could be that that connector from the battery to the starter is bad. The cable has a male and female connection in the middle and some times the connection goes bad and loses proper contact. Try unplugging it, clean the male and female connections, plug it back together and try restarting it again. The connector is red and runs behind the exhaust heat shield. Just follow the cable from the start towards the battery and you should run in to it. Also if that turns out to be the problem, the fix is to just replace the cable with a solid one, directly from the battery to the starter. Good luck, and keep us posted. | ||
| Vasilis K. (Goyal99)
New member Username: Goyal99 Post Number: 20 Registered: 3-2002 |
Jeff, Yes, I did follow the 15 min. idle procedure after the new battery was installed....However like I posted earlier, I have not been able to successfully start the car with the starter - it has always been a push-start-dump-the-clutch engine start since last weekend, when the new battery was installed....So maybe the "re-initializing" ECU procedure was not completed successfully at that time....I'm really hoping that once the starter problem is resolved, the engine stalling when the clutch is depressed will go away (wishful thinking, I know). VK | ||
| Jeff B. (Miltonian)
Member Username: Miltonian Post Number: 359 Registered: 12-2002 |
One more quick thought: If you had the battery disconnected while checking the starter, your problem with stalling at idle MAY be a simple matter of "re-initializing" the ECU's. 1) Disconnect/reconnect battery. 2) Start engine, DON'T TOUCH THE GAS PEDAL! 3) Let engine idle for 10 minutes. 4) Shut off engine. 5) No more stalling? | ||
| Vasilis K. (Goyal99)
New member Username: Goyal99 Post Number: 19 Registered: 3-2002 |
Thanks Jeff for the update and Noel for the tip...I will attemp your quick fix Jeff and post the results tomorrow....I will also take some pics for those who might want to see what we're talking about. My starter is a Nippo and all the terminals to it were cleaned (I took the starter out of the car)...If jumping the terminals doesn't work for some reason then I will take the starter to be tested locally. Regards - VK | ||
| Jeff B. (Miltonian)
Member Username: Miltonian Post Number: 358 Registered: 12-2002 |
Vasilis: Very quickly, I have to run. There are two wires to the starter, one is battery positive (the big one attached with a nut) and the other is the start signal from the ignition switch (push-on terminal). Just pull off the start wire from the blade terminal and you have easy access to jump between the two terminals on the starter, just like you were testing it on the ground with jumper cables. Leave the positive terminal from the battery alone. Again, make sure the shifter is in neutral, you don't want it to crank over in gear! When my starter would not crank over on the key, I tested the signal wire with a test light, and it DID have power from the switch, but apparently not enough "juice" to engage the starter, because it would crank right over with a screwdriver. Should have tested it with a voltmeter. I never actually traced the problem to a verified source, it has to be in the ignition switch or a connection between the switch and the starter. The wiring diagram does not show a relay in between. Note: Some 348's have Nippondenso starters (like mine), and some have Bosch starters. Not sure if all connections are the same. I'll post details and pictures this evening if I get time, and I'll be interested to hear further news on your situation. Good luck!! | ||
| Noelrp (Noelrp)
Member Username: Noelrp Post Number: 271 Registered: 8-2001 |
If there's power going in to the starter, then the started might be bad. You can take your starter to Pepboys to have it tested (the most cost-effective method). If you are positive that the starter is good, then check the ground connection and positive cable for corrosion. Clean it or perhaps replace the wires. The started failed on me 2x. The good thing is it's relatively inexpensive to fix. Good luck. | ||
| Vasilis K. (Goyal99)
New member Username: Goyal99 Post Number: 18 Registered: 3-2002 |
Thanks for the tip Jeff....I will try your bypass method when I get home tonight. Just a couple of questions for you: If I completely disconnect the 12V battery input to the starter, where is the starter motor get power from??? only from the starter solenoid?? Can you email me (or post it here) a description of how your START-engine botton is wired directly to the starter??? What type of wires did you use for the job etc ??? Thanks | ||
| Jeff B. (Miltonian)
Member Username: Miltonian Post Number: 357 Registered: 12-2002 |
Vasilis: Just for laughs, try jumping the starter connections with a screwdriver the next time it won't crank over. Of course, MAKE SURE THE SHIFTER IS IN NEUTRAL FIRST!! Just unplug the signal wire at the starter and bridge the terminals. Chances are it will crank over just fine. I have seen a few posts about a mysterious lack of voltage at the starter. My 348 has this problem intermittantly. I installed a backup heavy-duty starter button in place of the cigarette lighter, and it works EVERY time without fail, while the ignition switch works about 50% of the time. A new ignition switch is horrendously expensive, and requires the purchase of new door lock cylinders as well (from what I have been told). This doesn't explain the stalling problem, however. | ||
| Vasilis K. (Goyal99)
New member Username: Goyal99 Post Number: 17 Registered: 3-2002 |
Jeff: The starter has an iternal ground wire and that's fine and clean....I looked at a couple ground points in the engine bay and they seem okay to me....How many ground points are there in the engine compartment?? Kenyon: My car does not have an immobilizer (car alarm)...Also these's only one power wire going to the starter motor and one small one to the starter solenoid and that's it...No other wires. I took the starter motor out completely last night and all the gears look fine....It spins freely on clockwise direction. I cleaned the contacts and installed it back to the clutch housing but still no cranking from the starter. The starter motor gets 12V power from the battery (I checked). I did have the battery completely disconnected for one month. Then I purchased a new battery...After I installed the new battery I had to push-start the car the very first time, because I could not get the starter motor to engage or crank...I tried pushing the clutch in and out, rocking the car back and forth, in gear and out of gear, but still no start... a) is there a starter relay to check ??? b) is there a battery kill switch in the 348 and where is located ??? Thanks for your suggestions - VK | ||
| J R K (Kenyon)
Member Username: Kenyon Post Number: 387 Registered: 10-2002 |
Have got a problem with your immobiliser, thats if you have one. A freind of mine had the same problem and it was his immoboliser alarm cutting in. Bad elctrics... Just a cause | ||
| Jeff Edison (Euro308guy)
Member Username: Euro308guy Post Number: 366 Registered: 7-2002 |
Vasilas, How is your ground? My friend, you most likely have a good starter, these problems are likely related. I'd check all grounds first. Best of luck, and keep us posted. | ||
| Vasilis K. (Goyal99)
New member Username: Goyal99 Post Number: 16 Registered: 3-2002 |
I can't get my '93 348 to start at all - cold or hot...No clicking noise from the starter, the connectors are clean and tight, the battery is new but not a single crank from the starter....I have a brand new Interstate battery so I know there's plenty of juice...and there's power at the starter itself.. So I put the car in 1st gear and had someone push me with the ignition on....I let the clucth out, it jerked and started fine that way and it went for a few blocks...Then the engine died when I came to a traffic light and engaged the clutch in.....So I tried to start it but again no crank, no clicking sound from the starter just silence back there.....Again I had to enlist a kind soul to push start the car in gear...I limped home by keeping the revs up and trying not to engage the clutch too much!!! So now I'm hoping my problem is only a dead starter. I'm planning to have it rebuild localy. I'm a bit puzzled as to why the car stalled on me a few times when I engaged the clutch while running...Could this be related to the bad starter while the car is already running??? Any explanations/suggestions as to what to look for next??? VK |