| Author |
Message |
Robert W. Garven Jr. (Robertgarven)
Junior Member
Username: Robertgarven
Post Number: 171
Registered: 2-2002
| | Posted on Friday, June 20, 2003 - 5:44 pm: | |
JRV
Thanks for the input, are the 7-10 and 34-36 marks you are talking about on the flywheel. Last time I set the timing I just did them at idle. The cars runs fine accelerates evenly, but I want to clean and lube the advance mechanism, because I know it is all gunked up from age. I assume I only need one condensor is it the long wire one or the short wire? Are there any other tips you can give me? |
JRV (Jrvall)
Intermediate Member
Username: Jrvall
Post Number: 1717
Registered: 11-2002
| | Posted on Wednesday, June 18, 2003 - 12:15 pm: | |
Robert G.,
It's very easy to test the Distribs Advance Mechanisms.
Get a Timing Light, open the Flywheel/Timing Marks Inspection Port on the bellhousing top, turn the flywheel with a screw driver to #1 TDC and mark 0 (zero)with colored paint, then mark 7-10 degrees advanced with a different color, then crank around to the 34-36 degree mark and paint a spot. Repeat for 5-8 marks. Now simply start engine with Timing Light hooked to #1...check idle timing and record, then carefully and briefly raise RPM's to 4500 and check & record, repeat for 5-8 with timing light connected to #5. Both Distribs Timing should start at the same point (7-10 on R-1's, R-2's removed) and advance smoothly and evenly to their respective max timing marks (34-36) and very importantly "return" to the starting mark quickly when the RPMs drop back to idle. Several quick checks are usually enough to confirm they work well or don't.
HTH's |
Steve (Steve)
Member
Username: Steve
Post Number: 418
Registered: 2-2001
| | Posted on Wednesday, June 18, 2003 - 11:24 am: | |
I remember this discussion a few years ago when I started looking into point replacement on my 77.I knew I had to make a change when my rear bank point set went bad on the road and I almost blew it up with all of the backfiring. I looked around and wanted to do something that did not alter stock but updated to breakerless ign. without having additional boxes to mount. I found that the most reliable unit out with longstanding history is Pertronix's.You can use stock coils or upgrade to 40,000V and the tach works and easy to set timing.Maybe a little pricey ($500)but works great. |
Mark Eberhardt (Me_k)
Member
Username: Me_k
Post Number: 571
Registered: 5-2002
| | Posted on Wednesday, June 18, 2003 - 6:46 am: | |
DGS, When I was programing curves into my new ECU I noticed the US curvse were complicated and a bit bizzar, but the euro curves smooth....I blamed it on emisions and used the euro curves. |
Robert W. Garven Jr. (Robertgarven)
Junior Member
Username: Robertgarven
Post Number: 163
Registered: 2-2002
| | Posted on Wednesday, June 18, 2003 - 1:02 am: | |
JRV,
I have been running points in my gt4 with the one set of points and soild core wires and the car runs great. I am going to replace the points and condenser and wires as it has been about 6 years. I did this before but never messed with the advance mechanism. After doing lots more work on my car and reading Alan Bishops book I am feeling adventurous. I will clean and lubricate them this time, however I have heard conflicting advice. If the cars runs great do I have to have the distributors set up on a machine or if I just clean and lube shouldnt they run as before? I do not have easy access to a machine wish I could buy and old one.
Thanks in advance,
Rob |
"The Don" (The_don)
Senior Member
Username: The_don
Post Number: 5240
Registered: 8-2002
| | Posted on Tuesday, June 17, 2003 - 9:10 am: | |
Anyone want my xr 3000's? they were in the car for a week. |
Mitchell Le (Yelcab1)
Member
Username: Yelcab1
Post Number: 555
Registered: 11-2001
| | Posted on Tuesday, June 17, 2003 - 9:05 am: | |
My Crane works great. For $250 (or was it $150), I bought it from someone on Fchat who never installed it on his car. Mine runs just about perfect.
I also have a friend who converted his 308GTSi to full direct ignition system for around $2000. That also ran great.
Now, we don't adjust points no more. Sorry Matt. |
"The Don" (The_don)
Senior Member
Username: The_don
Post Number: 5236
Registered: 8-2002
| | Posted on Tuesday, June 17, 2003 - 8:03 am: | |
Peter
"I'm sure (and hoping) you meant normal/original advance..."
Yes |
DGS (Dgs)
Junior Member
Username: Dgs
Post Number: 65
Registered: 5-2003
| | Posted on Tuesday, June 17, 2003 - 6:43 am: | |
I considered the XR700 for my Alfa. I've heard good reports about it ... as a replacement for the Alfa's dual points system.
My Marelli multiplex seems to be dying. I've looked over the curves in the Ferrari specs, and no stock aftermarket system has ignition curves anywhere near as detailed as the Marelli curves. I could replicate the original curves using an M32R risc processor, but that would be a bit of a project. (The map would be too large for a standard 8051's address space.)
I wonder why they thought the curves needed to be that complicated.
|
Greg Rodgers (Joechristmas)
Member
Username: Joechristmas
Post Number: 760
Registered: 3-2001
| | Posted on Tuesday, June 17, 2003 - 5:36 am: | |
Changing to XR700s was one of the best changes I made to my car. I paid $235 for 2 XR700 units and 2 PS20 coils. I have been using mine for over 2 years with no issues. |
Russ Turner (Snj5)
Junior Member
Username: Snj5
Post Number: 198
Registered: 2-2003
| | Posted on Tuesday, June 17, 2003 - 4:06 am: | |
I also have a stock/OEM fetish, but...
...also certainly know the $1300 routine replacement parts as well as being stranded 3
times by Ing. Marelli & SpA with single bank failure. I'm trying the Millermon/MSD thing for the price of two stock distributor caps.
'No Ferrari factory parts were harmed in this production.'
Best wishes to get it set up the way you want it.
|
'75 308 GT4 (Peter)
Advanced Member
Username: Peter
Post Number: 2855
Registered: 12-2000
| | Posted on Monday, June 16, 2003 - 10:37 pm: | |
I'm sorry the Crane's didn't work out. I'm having no problems with mine.
But, kudos to you for going back to original instead of farting-around with some other system.
Oh, by-the-way, why do you mention: "...going back to dual distrub with fixed advance..."? I'm sure (and hoping) you meant normal/original advance... |
"The Don" (The_don)
Senior Member
Username: The_don
Post Number: 5235
Registered: 8-2002
| | Posted on Monday, June 16, 2003 - 9:59 pm: | |
JR,
The it's $1300 for parts. Wires, plugs, points, caps, rotors, Dist advance, weights, etc. the rest is labor. I wanted to start from the beginning back to Factory spec's. For some reason I have this "stock" fetish I cannot shake on my cars.
M |
david handa (Davehanda)
Member
Username: Davehanda
Post Number: 999
Registered: 5-2001
| | Posted on Monday, June 16, 2003 - 9:54 pm: | |
Matt,
The Ferrari technician that installed the Crane XR700 in my 78 308 said he had done several dozen 308's over the years (he said the original ones were made by Allison), and they all worked great. I never had a problem with mine. Sounds like you had an installation problem of some sort. I know there are several people on Chat that are using the Crane system sucessfully. The MSD is a good choice I hear as well. |
JRV (Jrvall)
Intermediate Member
Username: Jrvall
Post Number: 1706
Registered: 11-2002
| | Posted on Monday, June 16, 2003 - 8:32 pm: | |
Matt,
I didn't say don't modernize per se. I said I can't see the value in a $2000 Black Magic fix for a $150 set of points and an advance wieght rebuild once every 10 years. |
"The Don" (The_don)
Senior Member
Username: The_don
Post Number: 5233
Registered: 8-2002
| | Posted on Monday, June 16, 2003 - 8:00 pm: | |
JP,
My car never ran right after two different shops looking at it. One independant and one Ferrari. It may be 25 year technology old but so is the car. |
JP Lavigne (Jpl)
Junior Member
Username: Jpl
Post Number: 85
Registered: 12-2001
| | Posted on Monday, June 16, 2003 - 7:54 pm: | |
I had the crane done 2 years ago, I would never go back to the 25 year old technology. The car has nevery run better and it starts so much easier now. |
Steve (Steve)
Member
Username: Steve
Post Number: 414
Registered: 2-2001
| | Posted on Monday, June 16, 2003 - 7:46 pm: | |
Don I went with a Pertronix set up. Had it done by a guy on the west coast. Cost me $500 and I just sent him 1 dist. He makes a baseplace and mounts 2 pertronix hall effect pickups in the base , puts a magnetic unit over the dist cam and then verifies the advance system and rebuilds it.You leave the front dist in place(I kept the points in it) and you install the rear dist and set it to 7DBTDC on 1-4 and 5-8 are automaticly set. You still use 2 coils and 2 distr. (the second dist only distributes the spart)and it looks like stock. Did this 2 years ago and runs perfect. |
"The Don" (The_don)
Senior Member
Username: The_don
Post Number: 5231
Registered: 8-2002
| | Posted on Monday, June 16, 2003 - 7:32 pm: | |
Well after much $$$$ and frustration, I took the car in to have the crane system pulled out and the points put back in. Also I am going back to the dual dist's. The car never ran right and when it did it was short lived. Let's the masses know that JRV was right again. I tried to cheat by replacing the old and inferior with new an improved but it failed.
Cost for the crane xr700 = $580
Cost for new 8150 Coils = $60
Cost for xr3000 = $180
Cost for Crane coils = $ 88
Cost for Replacing the about with Points and going back to dual distrub with fixed advance
$2,000
Lession Learned
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