| Author |
Message |
C.C.ofAtlanta (Atlantaman)
Junior Member
Username: Atlantaman
Post Number: 228
Registered: 3-2002
| | Posted on Wednesday, July 09, 2003 - 12:04 am: | |
having a difficult time crossing the dryer--think I will get one from TRutlands.. just spent 2 days replacing the hoses--think I could have gotten away with just replacing one but too late now. more to follow |
Chris Scott (Jcscott)
New member
Username: Jcscott
Post Number: 15
Registered: 12-2002
| | Posted on Tuesday, July 08, 2003 - 9:43 pm: | |
CC, did you find out the part numbers for the dryer etc...I need to do the same job. |
C.C.ofAtlanta (Atlantaman)
Junior Member
Username: Atlantaman
Post Number: 226
Registered: 3-2002
| | Posted on Sunday, July 06, 2003 - 10:36 pm: | |
picking up new hoses tomorrow--will try to take some pics of the operation |
C.C.ofAtlanta (Atlantaman)
Junior Member
Username: Atlantaman
Post Number: 222
Registered: 3-2002
| | Posted on Thursday, July 03, 2003 - 8:35 am: | |
JRV--but alas-- The hoses were actually too short to reach the Sanden 508 even though they had the correct fittings. And with the V-12 motor the original York will no longer fit unless I cut off 1/2 of the gas tank. |
Greg Rodgers (Joechristmas)
Member
Username: Joechristmas
Post Number: 771
Registered: 3-2001
| | Posted on Thursday, July 03, 2003 - 5:52 am: | |
I tied a rope to the old hoses as I pulled them through the back. Then when I installed my new hoses I tied the rope to them and pulled them back up to the front. My charge ports are towards the end of the hoses. |
C.C.ofAtlanta (Atlantaman)
Junior Member
Username: Atlantaman
Post Number: 221
Registered: 3-2002
| | Posted on Wednesday, July 02, 2003 - 11:10 pm: | |
Terry--how did you get the new hoses from rear to the front--there must be some majic involved--or some cutting.
|
JRV (Jrvall)
Intermediate Member
Username: Jrvall
Post Number: 1843
Registered: 11-2002
| | Posted on Wednesday, July 02, 2003 - 11:09 pm: | |
>>Removed the hoses today--jeez what a bi#ch. Turns out that the hose ends DO fit the nipples on the Sanden 508 >>
R12 would have pumped right in with Zero Changes to anything, except to any 20 yr old worn out parts.
One really neat trick I like is knowing when to leave well enough alone. |
Terry Springer (Tspringer)
Member
Username: Tspringer
Post Number: 651
Registered: 4-2002
| | Posted on Wednesday, July 02, 2003 - 4:47 pm: | |
I have done this converstion, am finishing it up now. I live in Cumming. I have photos of the finished install. Gainesville AC and Radiator made the lines for me. Holler if you need any help on ideas. |
C.C.ofAtlanta (Atlantaman)
Junior Member
Username: Atlantaman
Post Number: 220
Registered: 3-2002
| | Posted on Wednesday, July 02, 2003 - 4:29 pm: | |
Removed the hoses today--jeez what a bi#ch. Turns out that the hose ends DO fit the nipples on the Sanden 508 but just are about 2 inches short. Will go get new hoses made tomorrow and get a new dryer--i hope
Charles |
Kelly (Tifosi1)
Member
Username: Tifosi1
Post Number: 681
Registered: 2-2002
| | Posted on Monday, June 30, 2003 - 9:35 pm: | |
Look don't go to a tractor store to get your dryer. go to any place local that specializes in AC. BRING YOUR DRYER and tell them to match it up. Frank Foster just did it and got on that goes in a Honda for $40.00.
Do the same thing with the expansion valve.
My 2cents.
Kelly |
Craig Dewey (Craigfl)
Member
Username: Craigfl
Post Number: 631
Registered: 1-2001
| | Posted on Monday, June 30, 2003 - 2:56 pm: | |
This is interesting reading:
http://www.sanden.com/support/RETRO.html |
Andy Falsetta (Tuttebenne)
Junior Member
Username: Tuttebenne
Post Number: 206
Registered: 3-2003
| | Posted on Thursday, June 26, 2003 - 8:47 pm: | |
Verell, Thanks for the education. I'll approach this differently in the future.
Andy |
Greg Rodgers (Joechristmas)
Member
Username: Joechristmas
Post Number: 766
Registered: 3-2001
| | Posted on Thursday, June 26, 2003 - 4:42 pm: | |
Yes you will need hoses made. I put my charge ports on the rear of the hoses near the compressor. |
C.C.ofAtlanta (Atlantaman)
Junior Member
Username: Atlantaman
Post Number: 217
Registered: 3-2002
| | Posted on Thursday, June 26, 2003 - 4:37 pm: | |
The reason I was starting this thread was to see if anyone had part number info on dryers and hoses--etc.
I determined that the dryer has 17mm male o-ring ends and there are a lot of the m available with those ends---odly enough most are for farm tractors---
I have removed all my hoses, the compressor and the dryer and am now building a mounting bracket for compressor. I guess I will get a dryer from TRutlands so dont have to go hunt down a tractor store. and it looks like I will have to get custom hoses made for this. |
Verell Boaen (Verell)
Member
Username: Verell
Post Number: 872
Registered: 5-2001
| | Posted on Wednesday, June 25, 2003 - 11:29 pm: | |
An R134a conversion isn't just 'topping off' with a can of it.
A minimally aceptable 'conversion' from R12 to R134a consists of sucking out any residual R12, then flushing the entire cooling system with a solvent that extracts the mineral oil the R12 system was charged with. Replace the charging connectors with R134a type connectors & add R134a & a full charge of R134a compatible oil.
The basic problem is that the original mineral oil is soluble in R12, so it constantly gets re-distributed throughout the system by the circulating R12. Unfortunately, mineral oil isn't soluble in R134a, so the mineral oil just collects some where, usually where it isn't doing any good. This often leads to inadequate compressor lubrication with predictable premature failure.
Once flushed, the system is re-charged with R134a and the appropriate amount of an oil that is soluble in R134a.
If R134a compatible oil is just added to the system w/o the flush, it tends to float on top of the mineral oil and get heavily used. Resulting in premature break-down of the relatively small amount of R134a oil, closely followed by compressor failure.
While the mineral oil flush can be done w/o opening the system up, you have to have the right (read $$) equipment. It's usually cheaper to pull a vacuum on the system afterwards.
More elaborate conversions involve replacing the dryer and the expansion valve with an expansion valve that's optimized for R134a.
The other problem is that R134a molecules are smaller than the R12 molecules. Hence they leak out more freely. A full-fledged conversion also replaces the A/C hoses with double-lined ones that are much less porous & thus retain the charge much longer.
Oh, yes, the o-rings for the fittings should be changed with ones that stand up better to the R134a compatible oils. Otherwise they cn break down & flake-off particles that can clog the expansion valve.
I've probably forgotten a few things, but just 'topping off' a low R12 charge with R134a is risky business. Maybe worth taking the risk with a high mileage beater, but not advisable for a classic car you intend to last for many hears & thousands of miles. |
C.C.ofAtlanta (Atlantaman)
Junior Member
Username: Atlantaman
Post Number: 215
Registered: 3-2002
| | Posted on Wednesday, June 25, 2003 - 11:13 pm: | |
I bought the sanden 508 for 205 and got a case (10 cans) for 38.00--now I am looking for a dryer and hose adapters of maybe new hoses--hope to be finished next week |
Andy Falsetta (Tuttebenne)
Junior Member
Username: Tuttebenne
Post Number: 204
Registered: 3-2003
| | Posted on Wednesday, June 25, 2003 - 5:39 am: | |
What's the justification for a "conversion"? And what is required? I've revived a couple of my M/Bs as well as a couple of rice burners with 134a and haven't had one problem. They were all R12 systems prior to charging with 134a. I remember hearing about $800 conversions when R12 went on restriction but that doesn't seem to be the case. Any practical explanation? |
Verell Boaen (Verell)
Member
Username: Verell
Post Number: 856
Registered: 5-2001
| | Posted on Tuesday, June 24, 2003 - 11:25 pm: | |
I'll bet if you drove your car to Mexico for a weekend getaway & had it filled with R12 while you were there, the EPA would never know/be able to prove it when you drove it back.
Haven't a clue as to how safe a Ferrari would be in Mexico tho.
Closer to home, Weather in NE just turned from extended april showers into summer...I've got to find the leak my A/C system developed at the end of the season last year. |
Steve (Steve)
Member
Username: Steve
Post Number: 426
Registered: 2-2001
| | Posted on Tuesday, June 24, 2003 - 10:14 pm: | |
JRV back in NY you need a licence to get and use R12 and it is running at over $100 a LB. I just filled up my 308 again after the belt change with 134a . So the price I just paid for the 134a was $25 and the system blows 40 degree air.With the exception of my new car I have converted all of them to 134a. I managed to get a 40lb can of r12 just before the law changed about 5-7 years ago and have that which I will sell when it goes to $800 . In the mean time I'll be buying 40 lb cans of 134a so I'll have enough for the next 20 years. |
JRV (Jrvall)
Intermediate Member
Username: Jrvall
Post Number: 1805
Registered: 11-2002
| | Posted on Tuesday, June 24, 2003 - 9:57 pm: | |
Andrew,
R12 is still readily availible..no it's not from Mexico..it's not bootleg or fake R12..real legal stuff from right here in the good ole USA...retail it sells for $62.50lb.
A 308/328/348 holds approx. 3 lbs. |
Andrew A. Illes (Andyilles)
Junior Member
Username: Andyilles
Post Number: 133
Registered: 10-2002
| | Posted on Tuesday, June 24, 2003 - 9:35 pm: | |
John V.... Yup.. but at 75c a pound.. or less?
Frank.. no ••••? |
Steve (Steve)
Member
Username: Steve
Post Number: 422
Registered: 2-2001
| | Posted on Sunday, June 22, 2003 - 7:24 am: | |
I got my receiver dryer from T Rutlands a few years ago when I converted to 134. They had a company that made a direct replacement for $80. Worked great. I had a bad compressor so I bought a replacement from Big A for $150. That is all I replaced and when I got this car the A/C had been down for 5-6 years. I just put it together , vacuumed it down and filled it up and worked ever since. |
Paul Sloan (Sloan83qv)
Member
Username: Sloan83qv
Post Number: 582
Registered: 3-2001
| | Posted on Saturday, June 21, 2003 - 8:38 pm: | |
Charles,
Will find out Monday, it cost like $35. |
Lawrence Coppari (Lawrence)
Member
Username: Lawrence
Post Number: 675
Registered: 4-2002
| | Posted on Saturday, June 21, 2003 - 4:59 pm: | |
I'm doing a Sanden retrofit on my Porsche this weekend. It'll get charged with DuraCool. I've used the refrigerant for 7 years in my old MB as well as in the Porsche. Works quite well. |
Frank Foster (Sparta49)
Member
Username: Sparta49
Post Number: 535
Registered: 3-2001
| | Posted on Saturday, June 21, 2003 - 4:02 pm: | |
Andrew, If you bring R12 in from Mexico you would have to smuggle it in so it would be subject to seizure when it crosses the border. It is a restriced item. You would need special permits from EPA to get it in. |
C.C.ofAtlanta (Atlantaman)
Junior Member
Username: Atlantaman
Post Number: 213
Registered: 3-2002
| | Posted on Saturday, June 21, 2003 - 3:14 pm: | |
My original dryer is a HANSA and does not match up to anything i have seen in the catalogs at NAPA. I went by Ferrari of Atlanta and they wanted $160 for a new one...tank you very little--whew
Paul--I could not find a 90-2900--who is the manufacturer?
Charles |
Paul Sloan (Sloan83qv)
Member
Username: Sloan83qv
Post Number: 581
Registered: 3-2001
| | Posted on Saturday, June 21, 2003 - 1:06 pm: | |
Left them alone and did not change expansion valve.
I put my charge ports up in front for quick and easy access. |
C.C.ofAtlanta (Atlantaman)
Junior Member
Username: Atlantaman
Post Number: 212
Registered: 3-2002
| | Posted on Saturday, June 21, 2003 - 8:56 am: | |
Thank Paul,
PS. did you do anything with the Hi-Lo pressure switches? or leave them the same for the conversion? |
JRV (Jrvall)
Intermediate Member
Username: Jrvall
Post Number: 1770
Registered: 11-2002
| | Posted on Saturday, June 21, 2003 - 8:55 am: | |
>>Not to violate any laws or anything... but you guys DO know that R12's legal and commonly available in the Carribean and anywhere south of the US Mexican border?<<
R-12 is also legal and readily availible in the US. In 12oz cans or 30LB Cylinders. |
Paul Sloan (Sloan83qv)
Member
Username: Sloan83qv
Post Number: 580
Registered: 3-2001
| | Posted on Saturday, June 21, 2003 - 8:51 am: | |
Charles,
Hose is 13/32 not 5/8" and dryer part # is 90-2900 |
Paul Sloan (Sloan83qv)
Member
Username: Sloan83qv
Post Number: 579
Registered: 3-2001
| | Posted on Saturday, June 21, 2003 - 8:46 am: | |
Charles,
The expansion valve and the dryer are US Made and good AC shop can match them up with there catologs, I will check on Monday with my AC shop if they have the part #'s on file. Hoses are just 1/2" and 5/8" standard AC. |
Greg Rodgers (Joechristmas)
Member
Username: Joechristmas
Post Number: 762
Registered: 3-2001
| | Posted on Saturday, June 21, 2003 - 7:56 am: | |
Where on google did you find this?
What part #'s are you looking for? |
C.C.ofAtlanta (Atlantaman)
Junior Member
Username: Atlantaman
Post Number: 211
Registered: 3-2002
| | Posted on Friday, June 20, 2003 - 11:23 pm: | |
BACK TO THE MESSAGE--- I need part numbers for the necessary pieces to do this work--
I could care less that they are going to change to something new--I have 24 1LB cans here to last me for as long as I like.
But please--anyone have the part numbers for the expansion valve, hoses, and dryer/ accumulator |
Andrew A. Illes (Andyilles)
Junior Member
Username: Andyilles
Post Number: 112
Registered: 10-2002
| | Posted on Friday, June 20, 2003 - 11:12 pm: | |
Not to violate any laws or anything... but you guys DO know that R12's legal and commonly available in the Carribean and anywhere south of the US Mexican border? And it's "rumored" that you can get as much as you want in Miami as well, roughly $1 a lb. Google search suggested. |
Steve (Steve)
Member
Username: Steve
Post Number: 420
Registered: 2-2001
| | Posted on Friday, June 20, 2003 - 6:50 pm: | |
I think we may be overreacting. I still have 20 lbs of r12 plus a few 40 lb tanks of 134a.If and I say if there is a move to ban 134a it won't be for another 5 years. This committee meeting in Az. is just a handfull of tree huggers who believe they have some power. Neither Europe or the US will react to quickly here. Also the infamous Kyoto agreement is a joke. All of the countries who put out the most polution are given a pass on the rules. So smokem if you gotem. |
Lawrence Coppari (Lawrence)
Member
Username: Lawrence
Post Number: 674
Registered: 4-2002
| | Posted on Friday, June 20, 2003 - 6:10 pm: | |
I just bought a Sanden retrofit for my track car, a 944 turbo. I had mine drained so that it could be charged with R12. It only necessitates an oil change. I do not use R12 but instead use DuraCool, a hydrocarbon. I have used the refrigerant for 7 years in other vehicles. Installation begins tomorrow.
I received a note from SAE yesterday about a symposium going on in Pheonix this week regrading phasing out 134a in Europe. It'll probably happen here as well.
Just noticed message was cited below. |
JRV (Jrvall)
Intermediate Member
Username: Jrvall
Post Number: 1762
Registered: 11-2002
| | Posted on Friday, June 20, 2003 - 5:43 pm: | |
Wayne,
http://www.ferrarichat.com/discus/messages/112/272286.html?1056047063 |
L. Wayne Ausbrooks (Lwausbrooks)
Intermediate Member
Username: Lwausbrooks
Post Number: 1982
Registered: 8-2002
| | Posted on Friday, June 20, 2003 - 5:34 pm: | |
Boy, am I behind the times. R134a is now being banned as well? What's replacing it? |
C.C.ofAtlanta (Atlantaman)
Junior Member
Username: Atlantaman
Post Number: 210
Registered: 3-2002
| | Posted on Friday, June 20, 2003 - 5:30 pm: | |
it is summer time here(92 today) and i have no AC-- I am planning on buying a case of 134a so i can hoard it away |
"The Don" (The_don)
Senior Member
Username: The_don
Post Number: 5398
Registered: 8-2002
| | Posted on Friday, June 20, 2003 - 5:25 pm: | |
pretty soon the retrofit will be a mouse breathing heavy on a ice cube....until PETA gets involved. |
JRV (Jrvall)
Intermediate Member
Username: Jrvall
Post Number: 1759
Registered: 11-2002
| | Posted on Friday, June 20, 2003 - 5:23 pm: | |
Why would you bother retrofitting now that it has been announced that R134a is being obsoleted, outlawed and phased out? |
C.C.ofAtlanta (Atlantaman)
Junior Member
Username: Atlantaman
Post Number: 209
Registered: 3-2002
| | Posted on Friday, June 20, 2003 - 5:09 pm: | |
I have purchased a Sanden 508 and am planning on doing my retrofit this weekend.
To those that have done this..... Please post any part #'s for hoses, expansion valve, dryer--etc that you had to change. I have only my new compressor and a mounting adapter kit.
Once this is done I will attempt to write up detailed instructions and a part list to post permanently on here. |