| Author | Message | ||
| Russ Turner (Snj5)
Member Username: Snj5 Post Number: 283 Registered: 2-2003 |
Verell Talked to Ben Millermon this week - he's finishing up a single distributor for the 3.2, and has been terrific to work with as there have been some diffences from his original drive design. He does not even want payment until I verify that it fits. Class. The whole package will cost less than 2 stock distributor caps. FWIW, I spoke with Norwood about a single distributor, but they seemed a bit too busy to get back to me. I'm sure they would do a great job, though. Will post pictures after installation upon my return to the States. best Russ | ||
| V.Z. (Ama328)
Junior Member Username: Ama328 Post Number: 168 Registered: 11-2002 |
I used to have a '79 308GTB that had been upgraded by Norwood(as described/pictured by Dave) sometime in the early-mid 1980s. I was told Norwood used some sort of Chevy V8 distributor cap. If you go this route, be careful of the distributor cap fitment, as mine actually popped off and led me on a rather expensive, time consuming, frustrating goose chase to fix problems this caused. Of course, that was Norwood in the 1980s, not now(and with different mgmt/owner), so is unlikely a newly installed setup would be the same as my old one. | ||
| Verell Boaen (Verell)
Member Username: Verell Post Number: 886 Registered: 5-2001 |
Where's Ben Millermon & his Millermon 8-wire distributor? I haven't seen him on the F*Chat recently... | ||
| Barney Guzzo (Trinacria)
Member Username: Trinacria Post Number: 288 Registered: 8-2002 |
Dave Nice set up. Great pictures! can you tell us more about it? | ||
| Andrew A. Illes (Andyilles)
Junior Member Username: Andyilles Post Number: 137 Registered: 10-2002 |
Evan.. you're unlikely to find a used single distributor, and if you do, you'll pay! I said in an earlier post that GT has 4 new ones for $950 ea. | ||
| Dave (Dave)
Member Username: Dave Post Number: 523 Registered: 4-2001 |
I have a single Dizzy electronic setup installed in my 77 308 and have been very pleased....     The conversion was done by Norwood Performance, and IMHO, if you are after a car that is a driver rather than a original show car, electronic is the way to go. | ||
| Verell Boaen (Verell)
Member Username: Verell Post Number: 874 Registered: 5-2001 |
The 'rule of thumb' for used parts in vy good condition is 50% of new price. However, if the distributor was last serviced in the mid-80s, it probably needs it again as the lube will have turned to cosmolene. If I were buying I'd want some more 'off' because of that. | ||
| Evan Friedman (Evan)
New member Username: Evan Post Number: 11 Registered: 5-2003 |
OK guys, So what is a used single distributor ignition system worth? This includes a previously tuned distributor, cap, rotor, wires, coils, and block off plate for the second distributor, and anything else that was attached to the original system. The car was converted in the mid-eighties, with factory parts. Evan | ||
| "The Don" (The_don)
Senior Member Username: The_don Post Number: 5527 Registered: 8-2002 |
Verell, I did not mean to come across that way. I just got fed up with it after having two shops try to fix it. The 308 is my daily driver and I needed to have a working car. Also, they made some modifications to the points making them ground rather then spark. I was told (knock on wood) that I would never have to change points or fix the advance curve. Time will tell. I average 15-20k a year in driving. Matt | ||
| Verell Boaen (Verell)
Member Username: Verell Post Number: 869 Registered: 5-2001 |
The_Don, IN DEFENSE OF ELECTRONIC IGNITION ---------------------------------- IMHO somehow your electronic ign. installation was done wrong & never straightened out. I can understand your being upset. I would be too. However, there have been quite a few F*Chat members and FerrariListers who have had successful electronic conversions done. Your posts make it sound like an electronic ign. conversion is high risk. IMHO: I think your case is exceptional because it went wrong, rathar than because it's a likely occurrance. I've tried searching the archives & couldn't come up with another electronic ign conversion that went wrong to the point that the disgusted owner had it ripped out. Over 30+ years of driving, I've had almost zero problems with electronic ignition & fuel injection. I really don't want to go back to the grief I had performing emergency & scheduled work to remedy failed points & condensers. When they're working they're fine. Unfortunately, a points/condensor/mechanical advance system does need regular service every 10K-20K miles. Also it can fail, usually at the most inopportune moment. For comparison, I've only had electronics problems twice since the late '70s. 1) The only time I ever have had a problem with a production electronic ignition/fuel injection setup was at about 120,000 miles with my '87 Rx-7 TurboII. The harness was cooked by heat rising up from the turbo charger & the vinyl insulation started cracking & moisture corroded the ground connections. Drove me nuts until I finally got ticked off & replaced the harness with a new one & it's been rock solid ever since. I can live with one surprise/120,000 miles. 2) Around 1990 I swapped an '87 TurboII engine into my '82 Rx7 GSL. Couldn't get it to run right to save my soul. Spent weeks & finally just dropped the project for a year. Finally a buddy & I went over the system wire by wire. At my buddy's insistance I bolted the ECU case to the chassis even tho there were 27 ground wires in the harness, including a pair of very heavy gauge wires back to the engine. Instant solution!!! I expect that the problems with your EI conversion were due to something equally dumb and possibly counter-intuitive. If I'd been paying a shop for my conversion I'd have been at the point of having them rip it out too. However, I don't blame electronic ignition in general because of it. | ||
| "The Don" (The_don)
Senior Member Username: The_don Post Number: 5517 Registered: 8-2002 |
Mine are spot on. I tried the electronic system for a month and I had nothing but issues. | ||
| Verell Boaen (Verell)
Member Username: Verell Post Number: 866 Registered: 5-2001 |
I certainly like the dual dist electronic ignition on my QV. However, I can see how getting the mechanical advances tuned on a pair of dual dist's is another challenge altogether. Luckily it sounds like that once you've got them right they tend to stay that way for a very long time. | ||
| Jerry W. (Tork1966)
Member Username: Tork1966 Post Number: 754 Registered: 7-2001 |
I have a single and would NEVER go back to the dual. Cheaper and easier to tune up from here on out, less missing and popping and better performance IMO. | ||
| "The Don" (The_don)
Senior Member Username: The_don Post Number: 5502 Registered: 8-2002 |
Nothing beats a properly setup dual dist ingnition with points and a correct and proper advance. | ||
| Andrew A. Illes (Andyilles)
Junior Member Username: Andyilles Post Number: 134 Registered: 10-2002 |
GT has new singles for $950 ea... they had 4 on the shelf as of last week. Technospeak aside, the function of ANY ignition system is simply to fire the spark plugs at the optimal time in relation to piston position. Electronics either work fine, or are besieged with little electron gremlins that can defy logic and diagnosis. The old point systems are reliable, time-proven, and the "wedding cake" single distributors are easy to set up, and keep set up. | ||
| Evan Friedman (Evan)
New member Username: Evan Post Number: 10 Registered: 5-2003 |
I talked to my mechanic about pricing. he suggested that $1000.00 USD would be reasonable. Basically, its drop in and set the timing according to him. Evan | ||
| Jonathan Bird (Birdman)
New member Username: Birdman Post Number: 21 Registered: 6-2003 |
Hi Evan, I'm interested. I have no idea what to offer you. What do you want for it? Jonathan | ||
| Evan Friedman (Evan)
New member Username: Evan Post Number: 9 Registered: 5-2003 |
I just removed a single distributor from my '78 308. I put in an HPX system. I've got a distributor block-off plate, the old wires, the distributor and two coils. I believe the car had a fresh tune-up before I bought it, so the points may be new. It worked quite well before I replaced it. I installed the HPX as part of the track package I developed for the car. Make me an offer if your interested. Evan | ||
| Jonathan Bird (Birdman)
New member Username: Birdman Post Number: 19 Registered: 6-2003 |
Russ, Dennis was throwing numbers and prices around left and right. If I remember right, it sounded like there was a japanese replacement single-distributor system made just for this engine that was about $500 for the complete distributor/points/etc. Sounds expensive until you realize it will cost at least that to REBUILD an existing dual distrib system. If you go single, you also need a new set of plug wires (obviously because all the wires are going to come from one distributor now, not two). These run a little over a hundred for genuine article and about half that if you buy a generic set. It sounds like a lot of people have done this conversion and like it. I'm inclined to go this way. Dennis was down on the electronic systems. Not a technical issue, just an issue of getting it set up and having the advance work properly. Then you have parts for an aftermarket system you need to maintain. His point (parden the pun) was that there is nothing wrong with points. The issue that most often degrades the performance of these engines is not the points themselves but the fact that there are 2 sets of points that do not always advance at the same rate so the two banks of cylinders are not optimally "matched" in performance. Makes sense when you think about it. I also like Andrew's point that the single dist systems are reliable. I hate being stranded! I'm big for protecting the environment, and emissions controls in modern cars are a wonderful and necessary technology. However, in the few old Ferraris out there, I don't see the logic in spending a fortune to maintain the complicated, performance reducing, unreliable dual points system in these cars in order to preserve a tiny fraction of the emissions controls. It just doesn't seem worth it, especially when the catalytic converters in most of these cars are likely barely functional at this point. | ||
| anthony s (Ants2au)
New member Username: Ants2au Post Number: 13 Registered: 2-2003 |
I was lucky enough when I bought my GT4 for it to have a single distributor setup. I then found a NOS single distributor (electronic), and put that in, as it's a pain to adjust the points on a single distributor. They are under a plate, and the whole thing has to be removed for that to happen. And I haven't looked back since. Advise. Go electronic in which ever shape or form. | ||
| Russ Turner (Snj5)
Junior Member Username: Snj5 Post Number: 248 Registered: 2-2003 |
Jonathan What parts and mods were required for the conversion and what approximate cost? thanks | ||
| Steve (Steve)
Member Username: Steve Post Number: 425 Registered: 2-2001 |
My set up is what Jay described. It works great and you only depend on 1 dist for the advance. | ||
| "The Don" (The_don)
Senior Member Username: The_don Post Number: 5467 Registered: 8-2002 |
I went from the Euro design to crane and I HATED IT. I was having all sorts of trouble. I took the car in and had it converted back to the dual setup. Difference is that they made the points ground rather then spark. Not sure of the whole lingo but that was the short version. It drives like a wild car now. | ||
| Andrew A. Illes (Andyilles)
Junior Member Username: Andyilles Post Number: 126 Registered: 10-2002 |
Jonathan... As one underseas life lover to another.. the single distributor system is wonderful. As Jay points out, there are cheaper (albeit more complex) ways to go, the Euro single-distributor systems were bullet-proof reliable, and easy to maintain and tune. The Crane, etc., guys can say what they want, but give me an old, simple, reliable system any time... and the single distrib. fills the bill. | ||
| Jay Morris (Jm3)
New member Username: Jm3 Post Number: 29 Registered: 10-2002 |
For the price of everything involved, I think the trick of putting two electronic ignitions in one of the distrubutors (45 degrees apart) and using it to fire the other distributor is the way to go. Looks original, less parts to buy. Put the ignition triggers in whicheever distributor takes the longest to fill up with oil (g) jay Morris | ||
| Jonathan Bird (Birdman)
New member Username: Birdman Post Number: 18 Registered: 6-2003 |
Hey Ya'all, I just had a long conversation with Dennis McCann (allferrariparts.com) who spent a good length of time talking to me about ignition issues. He brought something up that I thought I would ask you guys. He said that most issues with 308 ignitions are not really a fault of the points themselves but with the fact that the dual points system does not often advance each side at the same rate as the engine revs, thus they "fight" each other a bit. He suggested that the best way to improve the performance/reliability is to remove one and go to the Euro single distributor system. This of course means that you must lose the emissions functions provided by the dual distributor system. (As it turns out my car is missing a lot of emissions gear anyway, so I'm not that worried about it). The side benefit is that you now only have one distributor, etc. to rebuild. Anyone have any experience with this? Best, Jonathan |