| Author | Message | ||
| Mike Florio (Mike_in_nevada)
New member Username: Mike_in_nevada Post Number: 3 Registered: 6-2003 |
I'm mew to this board, but a long-term Ferrari owner (> 20 yrs), so pardon me for jumping in. A very experieniced automotive machinist friend says he never pulls or knocks a liner out - he bores it out until it gets thin enough then peels the remainder off. He says he usually has to true up the bore before he installs the replacement line. Just another data point. | ||
| Mitchell Le (Yelcab1)
Member Username: Yelcab1 Post Number: 567 Registered: 11-2001 |
No special tools other than 2 that I can think of: 1. One I made up to fit in the bottom of the sleeve so I can knock it out without any damage to the liners or the block. 2. A very special puller to remove the 1/4 wide dowels on the block-head deck. Without this tool, I do not see how they would come out, and therefore the block decks cannot be surfaced at all. Any good machine shop can surface the decks for you, except that they may have to make up some special bushings to fit the block into a grinding machine. | ||
| James J. McGee (Dr_ferrari)
Junior Member Username: Dr_ferrari Post Number: 112 Registered: 7-2002 |
They are correct, the liners for the 308/328 are Nikasil coated and should not be rebored. if a sleeve is worn beyond tolerance, It must be replaced. Best regards, Jim | ||
| Bill White (Nc_newbie)
Junior Member Username: Nc_newbie Post Number: 118 Registered: 2-2003 |
So let's get back to my original question and assume the cylinders are plasma coated an can not be re-bored. Is there anything special about replacing a sleeve in one of these blocks that any "good" machine shop can not replace given proper specs? Any special tools/machines required? | ||
| Verell Boaen (Verell)
Member Username: Verell Post Number: 873 Registered: 5-2001 |
JRV, I'm afraid you're mistaken about the QV & 328 cylinder liners. They are NicaSil plated Al. The 308/328 workshop supplement manual states: Under the heading engine specifications (Page B4): "The removable cylinder liners are constructed of aluminum" Again, at the top of page B8, the heading Checking Cylinder Liners reads: " - The cylinder liners of the four-valve engine are made of aluminum alloy. The inner surface is coated with nickel and silicon (Nikasil) carried out by a special process. Thanks to the very high hardness resulting from this treatment, cylinder liner wear is minimal. - When removing the cylinder liners, carefully verify them ..." Continuing onto page B9 it further states: "Visually check the inner surface which should appear bright and free from scoring and siezing. - should the surface be damaged even slightly, replace the cylinder. - Never grind the cyl. liners as the surface treating would be removed. ... " | ||
| Jeffrey Davison (Jeffdavison)
Junior Member Username: Jeffdavison Post Number: 143 Registered: 7-2002 |
nothing new, but they are not interchangable. Jeff | ||
| Dave (Dave)
Member Username: Dave Post Number: 520 Registered: 4-2001 |
Jeffrey is correct, Ferrari started using a Nikasil coating in 1983 on the liners. As for the question, can you re-sleeve a 328? Yep... | ||
| JRV (Jrvall)
Intermediate Member Username: Jrvall Post Number: 1820 Registered: 11-2002 |
Jeffery, Porsche used Nikasil, Alusil, and Cast Iron on the same size engines in the 70's...nothing new here. | ||
| Jeffrey Davison (Jeffdavison)
Junior Member Username: Jeffdavison Post Number: 142 Registered: 7-2002 |
forum doesn't seem to be posting pics  JD | ||
| Jeffrey Davison (Jeffdavison)
Junior Member Username: Jeffdavison Post Number: 141 Registered: 7-2002 |
Here's a pic of one on my liners.......... Jeff Davison | ||
| Jeffrey Davison (Jeffdavison)
Junior Member Username: Jeffdavison Post Number: 140 Registered: 7-2002 |
hmmmm I've a brand new set of sleeves in my hands for a 308QV rebuild I'm doing (to be supercharged). They aint iron! Also my tech friend (ex FAF -who also does rebuilds for T Rutlands) has several 2V, QV and 328 blocks underway and I can say first hand I have personally held and fondled all the liners. A 2V weighs a hell of a lot more than a QV or 328, and you can see the plating vs cast iron. I believe my eyes, my tech (ex FAF) friend and the Ferrari website. Jeff Davison | ||
| david handa (Davehanda)
Intermediate Member Username: Davehanda Post Number: 1064 Registered: 5-2001 |
Well, that wouldn't be the first error on their site... :-) They make no distinction between early (75-77) 308 carb cars (USA) and late (78-79)as far as hp ratings. The early ones were rated at 240hp and the later ones at 205hp. But they don't mention it in the site, they just lump them all together. Same with the QV's, there were some minor hp differences between the 83 and the 84-85. But they lump them together. | ||
| Tillman Strahan (Tillman)
Member Username: Tillman Post Number: 706 Registered: 11-2001 |
According to the official Ferrari site, the 328 has an aluminum block and aluminum/nikasil liners | ||
| JRV (Jrvall)
Intermediate Member Username: Jrvall Post Number: 1818 Registered: 11-2002 |
>>Aren't the 308QV & 328QV Aluminum sleeved with Nikasil coated/plated liners? << NO they are not! | ||
| Jeffrey Davison (Jeffdavison)
Junior Member Username: Jeffdavison Post Number: 139 Registered: 7-2002 |
Aren't the 308QV & 328QV Aluminum sleeved with Nikasil coated/plated liners? They simply cannot be rebored as the process will destroy the plating. The sleeves can then be replated but a specialty house must be found to do this. These are few and far between. The physical act of removing and replacing a sleeve is no big deal but a proper "puller" tool needs to be used if you don't want the old sleeve damaged. The old 308 2V had iron sleeves and it is not a problem to do a simple rebore. (all this is per a veteren engineer/tech who WAS the service dept at the old FAF Atlanta - and he has done more 308's then members in this forum) Jeff Davison | ||
| JRV (Jrvall)
Intermediate Member Username: Jrvall Post Number: 1814 Registered: 11-2002 |
Mitchel, sounds like you've been thru the drill. Bill, the most direct approach to oversized is bore all the holes to size, cleaning up any problems. Once you know finished bore size you order pistons, pins and rings to spec. | ||
| Mitchell Le (Yelcab1)
Member Username: Yelcab1 Post Number: 564 Registered: 11-2001 |
That is a full rebuild job. 1. Disassemble the engine 2. Knock out all the liners on that side 3. Fit them back in with the new liner(s) and check for deck height protrusion. If you are very lucky, they are the same, liner to liner. 4. re assemble engine, but since you are there, you might as well do a valve job. 5. If they are not the same, you have to surface the deck of the block, 6. Temporarily glue down the liners (without any orings), and cut the top of the liners to the right protusion height, 7. Knock out the liners, clean up the block, and reassemble the egine again. Might as well do a valve job. Change all the rings, may have to hone the liners, etc... Really, you might as well rebuild the whole engine if you are going to that kind of work. | ||
| Bill White (Nc_newbie)
Junior Member Username: Nc_newbie Post Number: 113 Registered: 2-2003 |
Thanks JRV, So it sounds like not just any machine shop can replace a sleve? Do you know a couple that can? Are oversized pistons and rings readily available? Thanks, Bill | ||
| JRV (Jrvall)
Intermediate Member Username: Jrvall Post Number: 1813 Registered: 11-2002 |
Yes they can be re-sleeved. No it's not cheap or easy. The liners all have to stick up exactly the same height on each side and have the correct alignment and press fit into the block. Unless a liner is cracked the general repair method is boring oversized. | ||
| Bill White (Nc_newbie)
Junior Member Username: Nc_newbie Post Number: 112 Registered: 2-2003 |
Replace a damaged sleve? I see you say (yes). Are there many shops (i.e. any shop that can resleve an engine) that can do this or is there something special about this engine? Bill | ||
| Steve Magnusson (91tr)
Intermediate Member Username: 91tr Post Number: 1917 Registered: 1-2001 |
Do you mean replace a damaged sleeve (yes) or go to a different, larger sleeve (not easily)? | ||
| Bill White (Nc_newbie)
Junior Member Username: Nc_newbie Post Number: 111 Registered: 2-2003 |
If so who can do this? Thanks in advance, |