| Author |
Message |
Mule (Mule)
New member
Username: Mule
Post Number: 11
Registered: 6-2003
| | Posted on Friday, July 11, 2003 - 4:49 pm: | |
Dave,
I will give it a try when I find a decent gravel road. The electrical tests say it is, but that is with the car off.
Suprisingly, it hasn't come on during the last two drives. It does the self test when the key is turned, then goes out. I did top off the resevoir, but I think it is just a coincidence, since the dealer says that "self-healing" ABS is an option that is hard to find...
Been busy over the last week. I took my girlfriend to Denver to look at new VW Passats, but when I went to FOD, I ended up walking out with a BMW 328i for my girlfriend. The silver 4 door on the website. Another great experience at FOD, but I had hoped to buy a car there before my girlfriend. She wants to leave the Ferrari of Denver license plate frame on the car to rub it in.
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Dave328GTB (Hardtop)
Member
Username: Hardtop
Post Number: 619
Registered: 1-2002
| | Posted on Wednesday, July 02, 2003 - 10:17 pm: | |
Mule,
Do you know if the ABS is working? If not get on some gravel and lock 'em up. At least then you'll know if the light is on erroneously or not.
Dave |
Mule (Mule)
New member
Username: Mule
Post Number: 10
Registered: 6-2003
| | Posted on Wednesday, July 02, 2003 - 4:03 pm: | |
Follow up after trip to FOD:
The Tutela Extreme 5 brake fluid says DOT 3 and DOT 4 on the bottle. Confusing, but good to know it isn't DOT 5. We topped it off, but it did not affect the ANTI LOCK light. It is still on. He rechecked the wheel sensors, but did not have time (my constraint) to check the sensor at the resevoir. I will check it this weekend when I check the battery terminals.
As always, great service from FOD. Did the oil, gearbox, and coolant change. There was even a customer F50 out front.
On the way home (60 miles) the BRAKE FAILURE light came on and off a few times. Sometimes it is dimly lit, other times full on or full off. ANTI LOCK stayed on the whole time.
So overall no change in status. Still searching, but not as "concerned" as when it first appeared since I know the brakes are working. I still would like to find the cause. Thanks for all the information and advice. As I try the suggestions this weekend, I will let you know.
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Mule (Mule)
New member
Username: Mule
Post Number: 9
Registered: 6-2003
| | Posted on Tuesday, July 01, 2003 - 8:36 pm: | |
Dave and Tom,
Thanks for the reassurance on the brake fluid. The Tutela website is fairly vague, and says all their fluids are "synthetic based".
Knowing Dave Helms worked there and endorsed it sounds good. Since only the dealer has it, I will let them top it off. Hopefully, this helps the original subject and makes the light go out. If anything, I think we put out some good information on brake fluid.
Will post results tomorrow evening.
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Tom Jones (Ferrarioldman)
Junior Member
Username: Ferrarioldman
Post Number: 132
Registered: 6-2002
| | Posted on Tuesday, July 01, 2003 - 8:28 pm: | |
That's right. It's call Tutella Extreme 5 but it is a DOT 3-4. Any good fluid like Valvoline or Castrol LMA will work fine. |
Dave Helms (Davehelms)
Junior Member
Username: Davehelms
Post Number: 75
Registered: 5-2003
| | Posted on Tuesday, July 01, 2003 - 8:13 pm: | |
The Tutela fluid is DOT 3-4, not DOT 5. It is the high temp fluid that Ferrari wanted used starting with the F40 and onwards. |
Mule (Mule)
New member
Username: Mule
Post Number: 8
Registered: 6-2003
| | Posted on Tuesday, July 01, 2003 - 9:07 am: | |
Dave Helms,
Thanks for weighing in. I am taking it to FOD tomorrow for service and will ask him to look at those things. Not quite like the hazard light problem, either. And I fixed the foam airbox hose like you showed me with the aircraft ducting. Works great and is less restrictive (a little ram air, maybe).
I do hear the ABS pump at startup, and the light being intermittent leads me to think it is something small and simple, just not obvious. Hindsight being 20/20, bad idea on the quick charger for sure, especially without using the battery disconnect.
Any views on the DOT 5? I am fairly certain, it did not have 5 in it prior.
This thread is not restricted to "Daves" or "Davids" only.
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Dave Helms (Davehelms)
Junior Member
Username: Davehelms
Post Number: 73
Registered: 5-2003
| | Posted on Tuesday, July 01, 2003 - 6:54 am: | |
Sure I remember you, great to hear from you again. This one sounds a bit uglier than the door light problem!
Kinda sounds like a couple of differant problems, but the 50 amp quick charge has me concerned, lets not do that anymore. Computers and high current/voltage dont mix well.
There is a lenghtly step by step check procedure to check the entire ABS system for problems. The down hill run and the light off thing, leads me to think that David is on to something. Unplug the wires on top of the resevior and connect them together to see if the contacts went bad, or a float is stuck in the down (fluid low) position. Do you hear the ABS pump wind up when you turn the key on? There are so many variables with this problem, and the interconnection of the fluid level sensors, front to rear differential sensors, etc.... There is also the variable that there were two differant systems made, the Deves and the Bosch. The first step is to isolate each system to find out which one is the origional problem. From that point, it is a simple step by step check, following the same logic path the ECU does to turn the light on. The ABS systems have been so trouble free over the years, that there is no one thing that is common. I have 2 328's in the shop now. I will look at them and see if anything springs to mind. |
Mule (Mule)
New member
Username: Mule
Post Number: 7
Registered: 6-2003
| | Posted on Friday, June 27, 2003 - 7:35 pm: | |
David,
Exactly! I did a search and came up with the same info you did. I will ask the dealer his views.
If it is filled with DOT 5 now, I dont think I have much of a choice.
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david handa (Davehanda)
Intermediate Member
Username: Davehanda
Post Number: 1089
Registered: 5-2001
| | Posted on Friday, June 27, 2003 - 7:24 pm: | |
Strange, DOT 5 brake fluid is almost always silcone, and silicone is NOT recommended by any vehicle manufacturer, and not generally recommended for anti-lock brakes either. DOT 5 is not compatible with DOT 3-4 so don't top up unless you have DOT 5. I am NOT a mechanic, but would question the dealer about why they use DOT 5...
If you run a google search on "brake fluid DOT 5" you will get a lot of links and info. You can also do a search on that specific brand of fluid, and I see they only produce synthetic lubricants and brake fluid. |
Mule (Mule)
New member
Username: Mule
Post Number: 6
Registered: 6-2003
| | Posted on Friday, June 27, 2003 - 6:20 pm: | |
Dave and David,
I talked to FOD to see what kind of brake fluid they used to bleed it so I could top it off with the same. They said Tutela Extreme DOT 5. No one in my area seems to carry DOT 5, and some even said never use DOT 5 in an antilock system.
Should I wait and let the dealer top it off?
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Mule (Mule)
New member
Username: Mule
Post Number: 5
Registered: 6-2003
| | Posted on Thursday, June 26, 2003 - 11:47 am: | |
Dave Handa,
Thank you for the leads. I will try to do the fluid and battery terminals this weekend. On the battery itself, it is 4 months old. It was completley discharged, but testing shows it is at full charge with no problems. FOD said after testng it, "can't get any better than that." Hopefully, the fix happens before investing in a new battery. I would like to think that isn't the problem, but then again for only $100, it would be nice if only that was the problem. |
Dave328GTB (Hardtop)
Member
Username: Hardtop
Post Number: 614
Registered: 1-2002
| | Posted on Thursday, June 26, 2003 - 11:08 am: | |
Mule,
I have pix on an undeveloped roll of film. As I understand it, I bought the last set of 3 pc speedlines for late 328's. I have lost a center hubcap that covers the lug bolts and can't find a replacement yet so would not recommend anyway. Good luck on your car.
Dave |
Mule (Mule)
New member
Username: Mule
Post Number: 3
Registered: 6-2003
| | Posted on Thursday, June 26, 2003 - 8:56 am: | |
Dave328GTB,
I am in the Springs. I had talked to you via email a few months back. Do you have any pictures of the wheels on your car yet? I am still looking for the GTO style, but HRE doesn't make them anymore, nor does Speedline. Lots of 308/328/Mondial pictures with these wheels, but no luck finding any available ones.
I am taking the car to FOD next week for annual service, and I will top off the fluid, check the battery connections, and have him recheck the wheel sensors. If no luck, maybe I will track down Dave Helms and get a fresh set of eyes on the problem.
Final solution would be to remove the ANTI LOCK bulb... |
Dave328GTB (Hardtop)
Member
Username: Hardtop
Post Number: 613
Registered: 1-2002
| | Posted on Wednesday, June 25, 2003 - 10:50 pm: | |
Mule,
I have an 89 and have not had any trouble as of yet. However, I have been storing up info and others have reported if the connections at the wheels are loose, this can cause the light to stay on. Might want to take the wheels off, disconnect the sensor wires, clean and replace. Never heard of problems with the brake failure light that you report. Also, you may want to takethe car to Dave Helms who used to be FOD's chief tech. Since FOD is clearly lost on this, maybe Dave has seen the problem before.
Where in Colorado are you? I live in Franktown. Have a red/tan 328 GTB.
Dave |
david handa (Davehanda)
Intermediate Member
Username: Davehanda
Post Number: 1063
Registered: 5-2001
| | Posted on Wednesday, June 25, 2003 - 7:54 pm: | |
Start with a new battery, if you haven't already. And clean the posts and clamps really good too. Even the posts on a new battery can have oxidation.
Double check the brake fluid level too. I fixed the light on my 328 and a friend's Mondial 3.2 (both after a brake bleed) by just topping up the brake fluid. It seems the cars are rather sensitive to been right at the mark on the master cylinder resevoir. |
Mule (Mule)
New member
Username: Mule
Post Number: 1
Registered: 6-2003
| | Posted on Wednesday, June 25, 2003 - 7:46 pm: | |
1989 328 GTS w/ABS. Car sat for two months. Battery was completely drained (Optima red top); no lights, no clock, no power. Hooked up a 50 amp quick charger for 10 minutes and car started. No warning lights.
Drove 1 hour. Stopped and idled for 15 minutes. 10 minutes after starting again, �BRAKE FAILURE� light came on. 5 minutes after that, �ANTI LOCK� light came on. No other problems; brakes felt normal.
Ferrari Of Denver suggested that low battery might be cause. Car on trickle charger overnight. Next day, started normally, but both lights still illuminated.
Disconnected battery overnight to clear any codes.
Day three � car starts with �ANTI LOCK� light only. After 30 minutes of driving, no lights are on. After 1 more hour, �BRAKE FAILURE� light illuminates while coasting in gear down a hill, followed 5 minutes later by �ANTI LOCK� light. Brakes felt normal.
In the garage, I shut down the car then restart it. Only �BRAKE FAILURE� light comes on.
Since then, "ANTILOCK" comes on intermittently, sometimes with the "BRAKE FAILURE" light. FOD completley checked the system, bled the system and found nothing wrong. They recommended the ABS ECU was bad, but that is $3700 and not a certain fix.
Still, no change or feel to the brakes. Any suggestions?
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