| Author | Message | ||
| Barney Guzzo (Trinacria)
Member Username: Trinacria Post Number: 310 Registered: 8-2002 |
Here is the picture. There is a group of wires comes down from the digiplex. There are 3 connectors. Each one connects to a red/black sensor wire with a magnetic sensor on the flywheel housing. The sensors themselves (and their attached wires) can be removed with an 8 mm socket if needed. Be careful not to drop the lock washers. Un plug these three connectors from the harness and check across each one (going to the sensors on the flywheel) for resistence. It should be appx .600 ohms. I actually pulled the sensors off to make sure they were still magnetized as well. The sensor wire going to the 10 o'clock position is the 1-4 bank sensor, the sensor wire going to the 3 o'clock position is the tach sensor, and the one going to the 7 o'clock position is the 5-8 bank sensor.  | ||
| Barney Guzzo (Trinacria)
Member Username: Trinacria Post Number: 309 Registered: 8-2002 |
I will post a picture tonight when I get home and explain further. | ||
| Bill V (Doc)
Member Username: Doc Post Number: 379 Registered: 9-2001 |
Barney--I'm curious about how to test the sensors. Could you enlighten us on that.? Also, specifically which of each of the 3 sensors located along the flywheel case affect which bank of cylinders and the tach? Thanks. | ||
| Barney Guzzo (Trinacria)
Member Username: Trinacria Post Number: 306 Registered: 8-2002 |
Charles, I don't know if it is the same set up as mine (I think it is). I am replacing both sensors on my 308 as we speak. I got some great tips on this board when I was having a similar problem. I also checked the archives and found this has happened to others in the past as well. I ordered them for under $100 each. I took the right front wheel and wheel well off. Using a few 8mm sockets and and flexible head ratchet I got all 3 (the 2 sensors and the tach sensor) in about 2 hours. Testing them took about 3 minutes. I wish I would have seen your post sooner, I would have come by to help you. Glad you got it working anyway (too nice out to have the car sitting)! | ||
| dave handa (Davehanda)
Intermediate Member Username: Davehanda Post Number: 1216 Registered: 5-2001 |
Yeah Charles, The diagnosis/confirmation is the most difficult part of these cars. Replacing a flywheel sensor is pretty easy; well that forward bank one is pretty had to get to... | ||
| Charles T (Charles)
Junior Member Username: Charles Post Number: 124 Registered: 2-2001 |
Latest update... it was a flywheel sensor as per the mechanic. The sensor costs $207 and another $300 to troubleshoot and install it. All your recommendations were right on target! It wound up being something that was too difficult for me to repair. However, the education you guys gave me was in valuable! Thanks again... Charles | ||
| Charles T (Charles)
Junior Member Username: Charles Post Number: 123 Registered: 2-2001 |
Guys... I wimped out. I checked everything you all suggested, but no luck. My mechanic, Doug Perone at Berlinetta Motors in Huntington, NY has it now. I'll keep you advised. His initial guess based upon what I told him was that it was the Ignition Module. I told him that I switched it and it didn't make a difference, he thinks I didn't switch ALL the wires (I might not have because I was working by feel only - I could not see the units clearly from the angle I was working at). Thanks... | ||
| david handa (Davehanda)
Intermediate Member Username: Davehanda Post Number: 1201 Registered: 5-2001 |
Charles, Any updates on your progress with this problem? | ||
| Russ Turner (Snj5)
Member Username: Snj5 Post Number: 315 Registered: 2-2003 |
Charles - These can be frustrating, but hang in there. Like most of the ideas here - follow the electricity path: To take out an entire bank, it has to start or be upstream of the distributor cap if oil leak not a problem. Then look at the rotor/rotor button in the cap, then check the coil wire and it's connections, followed by the electrical connections to the coil as mentioned. then verify the coil is good by switching the coil. Then, assuming the harness is good the ECU's. Sounds like you are well to finding the problem. Of note - the tach signal comes from the ECU. You did not mention if the tach worked when you swapped ECUs. That would be interesting to know if you think about it. Sorry no more detail as my books and computer are packed so I will be intermittant as well - let us know what happens. Good luck Russ | ||
| Kelly (Tifosi1)
Member Username: Tifosi1 Post Number: 692 Registered: 2-2002 |
I had the same thing happen to me. I cleaned the blade connectors to the coils and everything works fine. Kelly | ||
| Dave328GTB (Hardtop)
Member Username: Hardtop Post Number: 631 Registered: 1-2002 |
Charles, The next thing to try is switch the coils. Be very careful to hook the wires up correctly. Make a chart before starting. You can also crawl under the car and check the 3 flywheel sensors as Ashley brought up to make sure they are still there. If you are looking at the flywheel from the clutch side, the 1-4 sensor is located at about 10-11 o'clock. Unfortunately, it is the hardest one to reach. Held in by 2 small nuts. I imagine there must be an instrument to check if it's sending signals through the wiring. You could also try switching the caps and rotors. Also check the termianls at the ecu to make sure you have good contact. Also, there is a connection of a bunch of wires on the left side of engine bay where sensors and other stuff connect to the wires leading to the ecu. Good luck, Dave | ||
| ashley bradley (Ash232)
New member Username: Ash232 Post Number: 47 Registered: 1-2003 |
I have had the same problem with my 85 mondial qv. I did the things that everyone has suggested with no sucess so I took it to the main dealer to see if they could find the problem. They rang back a day later to say I needed 8 new spark plugs and 8 extension caps, they assured me that this would solve the problem. I meself had already checked the obvious but hey there the experts. They phoned me two hours later,still not running on one bank then they told me the tracking had jumped out and they wanted �2,200 for new belts by this time I had lost all confidence and told them I would be picking the car up. They then told me I had to pay �200 for the work they had already carried out before they would release my car!!! After paying my �200 (for nothing) I took it took it to a little garage in my own town and the mechanic found the problem virtually straight the way. Although the clutch was working,four of the rivets in the clutch plate had given way and had jumped up and were running around with the fly wheel. Aparantly there are two pins which tell each bank of the engine to fire in order some of the rivets had hit one of the pins and bent it at a 45 degree angle. So it was missing the pick up so only one side of the engine was fireing and everything else was working fine. The mechanic replaced the clutch and made a new pin himself and it has not missed a beat for two years Hope this is some help Kev | ||
| Charles T (Charles)
Junior Member Username: Charles Post Number: 122 Registered: 2-2001 |
Well this is where I'm at: Found EIMs, switched them, rear bank still not working. Took apart distributor (found oil in it - but that's another thread)cleaned everything, put back together and still rear bank not working. Any other suggestions? | ||
| Dave328GTB (Hardtop)
Member Username: Hardtop Post Number: 620 Registered: 1-2002 |
Jeffrey, 3.2's have just one ECU. The QV's have two and the tach is driven off the rear bank (1-4). Charles, You can take the tach connector out and put it in the front bank ecu and I'll bet it works. But first, I would switch the ecu's. If the problem moves to the front bank, it's probably the ecu. If the problem remains with the rear bank, then you have to look elsewhere. It is easy to switch ecu's. Just take the cover off where they are located and switch the plug ins. Dave | ||
| Russ Turner (Snj5)
Member Username: Snj5 Post Number: 294 Registered: 2-2003 |
Charles - it's looking like a dead ecu if the cap/rotor are ok. Am with you on this rt plz disregard mis-post to Chris | ||
| Russ Turner (Snj5)
Member Username: Snj5 Post Number: 293 Registered: 2-2003 |
Chris - be sure to watch the 'front bank not working' thread!! best rt | ||
| Charles T (Charles)
Junior Member Username: Charles Post Number: 111 Registered: 2-2001 |
just checked the fuses (could not find a fuse for the ECU, is there one? check fuel pumps fuses and all ok) and checked the connectors for the ECU (cleaned them too). Still same bank dead. Tomorrow I'll check the rotor and cap. Just seems so bizaar... it was working fine, then not? | ||
| Russ Turner (Snj5)
Member Username: Snj5 Post Number: 292 Registered: 2-2003 |
If you switched coils, and the SAME bank is still dead, you probably have a bad ecu that is not driving the coil or a bad distributor cap/rotor. I would check the cap/rotor of the bad bank next. "Follow the electricity" JW - The 3.2 have a Single ECU - would need more specifics, but would guess shoddy connectors. It is normal for 3.2s to idle like old plumbing when they first start up, but once warm they are buttery smooth. | ||
| Charles T (Charles)
Junior Member Username: Charles Post Number: 110 Registered: 2-2001 |
Thanks Russ - I'll keep you advised. Checking ECU and fuses next. | ||
| Charles T (Charles)
Junior Member Username: Charles Post Number: 109 Registered: 2-2001 |
Just switched the coils, but same result. Just so we are straight, what I am calling the front bank is one at the BACK of the car (nearest the trunk). The rear bank is towards the FRONT of the car - access through the back seat(do I have it backwards?). The bank that is not working for me is the bank nearest the trunk. Changing the coils made no difference, the bank nearest the trunk still not firing. | ||
| Jeffrey Wolfe (86mondial32)
Member Username: 86mondial32 Post Number: 330 Registered: 5-2003 |
Russ.. I have a intemitant rough idle and the tach problem. I was told that the tach problem was a typical thing.. I did not know about the seperate control units.. Does that apply to the 3.2 's also..? | ||
| Russ Turner (Snj5)
Member Username: Snj5 Post Number: 291 Registered: 2-2003 |
And of course, the first thing to do with any Mondial is to check all the fuses. Cannot remember if the ECUs are seperately fused, but would check. Good luck, I'm with you on this, Russ 'I'm getting a single distributor' Turner | ||
| Russ Turner (Snj5)
Member Username: Snj5 Post Number: 290 Registered: 2-2003 |
Have packed my books, but here goes from memory: Yes - the tach is driven by front bank ignition computer (an 84 has one for each bank), which takes it's signal off of the flywheel. The fact that the bank and the tach died at the same time strongly suggests you have a poopy ECU for that bank, or a bad electrical connection there. If just a coil had died, the tach should still work as the signal comes from the ecu. You could test by swapping ECUs, but I'll bet a fountain coke it's the ecu or it's connector. Let us know what it turns out to be! Russ 'I hate Marelli' Turner | ||
| Jeffrey Wolfe (86mondial32)
Member Username: 86mondial32 Post Number: 329 Registered: 5-2003 |
The Tach problem is typical. Mine is intermittent. The fix I have been told is to send it out or replace it. | ||
| Charles T (Charles)
Junior Member Username: Charles Post Number: 108 Registered: 2-2001 |
Seemed odd that he tach stopped working too. Does it have anything to do with the front bank/coil? Could a fuse have blown? The car had been running great. | ||
| Charles T (Charles)
Junior Member Username: Charles Post Number: 107 Registered: 2-2001 |
'84 Mondial Cab. was running great. Stopped and restarted and front bank not firing and tach stopped working too. Any suggestions??? |