| Author |
Message |
Ernie (Ernie)
Member
Username: Ernie
Post Number: 748
Registered: 11-2001
| | Posted on Tuesday, July 08, 2003 - 12:48 pm: | |
Ok, so I'll shoot for the middle then. .229mm intake and, .33mm exhaust.
Thanks guys |
david b holmes (Mondial86)
New member
Username: Mondial86
Post Number: 2
Registered: 7-2003
| | Posted on Tuesday, July 08, 2003 - 7:08 am: | |
From my many years of adj. valves I find 90 pluss% of the time the valves become tite over time not loose,I just did my 30 on my mondial (eng. out )and 4 valves were tite none loose ,set them on the loose side of the middle .Car runs great. |
Dave Penhale (Dapper)
Member
Username: Dapper
Post Number: 730
Registered: 4-2002
| | Posted on Tuesday, July 08, 2003 - 3:28 am: | |
I think in practice you will find that, by virtue of the shim step sizes available you will find a shim that will get you into the required range but you probably won't be able to optimise 'where' you get within the range.
Don't try grinding shims to modify the available range because they are usually hard faced and you will break through the hardening.
You will also find that when you get the caps back on and torqued, the gap values will vary slightly from what you expect and calculated to arrive at. |
Ernie (Ernie)
Member
Username: Ernie
Post Number: 744
Registered: 11-2001
| | Posted on Monday, July 07, 2003 - 11:18 pm: | |
Yes I do have the engine out. I was told it is easier after setting the engine to TDC, to just take the caps off and remove the cam. That and I don't have the two tools called for in the shop manual. As for setting the clearances, I'm going to set them closer to the minumum .20mm intake, and .30mm exhaust. I figure it will be better to keep it tight, cause when they start to loosen up they will still be somewere inbetween the tollerances. As for the timing what do you suggest? |
Dave Helms (Davehelms)
Junior Member
Username: Davehelms
Post Number: 78
Registered: 5-2003
| | Posted on Monday, July 07, 2003 - 8:35 pm: | |
Yup, you got it right. What I was trying to get to is it not worth the effort to set them all at the .203mm. If you removed all the cams and put them in a lathe, and measured the lift and duration of all the lobes, it would shock you! This is why the cam timing is set with the valves at .5mm. The cams are not ground that accurate in ANY production car. I degreed each lobe on the F50 engine I did, and the accuracy was less that awe-inspiring. Get the valves set anywhere between the min and max, and spend your time on degreeing the cams. Dont fool yourself, lining up the marks on the cams is not considered setting them. The whole reason that Ferrari changed to a dual cam belt set up as in the 355, is the cam timing problems that came about with the long single belt the 348 used. I have redone 4 belt jobs in the last 5 yrs (2 TR's and 2 348's) that others did before me and didnt spend the time to set the timing. These had to be redone because they wouldnt pass smog.
PS, you dont remove the cams and caps to set the valves. Do you have the engine out? |
Ernie (Ernie)
Member
Username: Ernie
Post Number: 742
Registered: 11-2001
| | Posted on Monday, July 07, 2003 - 12:56 pm: | |
Dave
I'm kinda scratching my head on the clearances now. Lets take the the inlet clearances of .20 - .25mm. When I checked them, I had the cam lobes facing away from the top of the valve shim. Then I took the distance from the top of the shim to the underside of the cam. So if I got a measurement of .229mm, than means that I am right in the middle of the tolerances, and that was the amount of space inbetween the shim and the cam. Then I would get another reading of .203mm, meaning that there was less space inbetween the cam and the shim. So my question is, if there is less space, like the .203 measurement, wouldn't that mean that as the cam lobe starts to make contact sooner with the shim, and if it is closer to the shim wouldn't that also mean that the valves stays open just a bit longer? Or is it the other way around? I just wanna make sure I get this thing done right so the car can breath right to get the propper performance out of it, yet still pass smog. |
Jeff Edison (Euro308guy)
Member
Username: Euro308guy
Post Number: 388
Registered: 7-2002
| | Posted on Monday, July 07, 2003 - 9:44 am: | |
Ernie,
Your enthusiasm to do your own 348 30k is impressive indeed. I am with you all the way brother!
I don't know the answer to your question, but I'd bet if you called Norwoods, they'd be able to answer all types of questions like this. James is a great guy and when he has time, is willing to answer questions. I give them my business frequently for this type of A-1 service. I'd like to do my own 30 k service also, when it's time for my 348TT. Please keep a good diary of this and pics help. I'd also recommend powder coating while you've got the engine free. Looks beautiful. |
Dave Helms (Davehelms)
Junior Member
Username: Davehelms
Post Number: 77
Registered: 5-2003
| | Posted on Monday, July 07, 2003 - 6:21 am: | |
Shims are avail. in .025mm steps as well. The effect that .05mm valve clearance change has on the cam timing, or lift is not enough to talk about. Set at .35mm you will be ok. The key to power and emissions is all in the cam timing. Just lining up the marks only means the valves wont hit the pistons. |
MarkM (Zan)
Junior Member
Username: Zan
Post Number: 69
Registered: 11-2002
| | Posted on Monday, July 07, 2003 - 5:34 am: | |
Earnie, I found you will be able to get within the range, but will be hard to get it at a specific clearance since the shims are available in .05mm steps. |
Ernie (Ernie)
Member
Username: Ernie
Post Number: 740
Registered: 11-2001
| | Posted on Sunday, July 06, 2003 - 11:04 pm: | |
Thanks for the pat on the back Eugene. I'm glad I was able you give you some good advice. As far as the engine out 30k. I was a bit nervious at first to try this myself. I fell for the scare tactics that you here all the time. "If it isn't done by an authorized mechanic", "You have to have a lift and the factory tools", "If you mess it up you motor will be ruined", "You aren't factory trained" Bla, bla, bla, bla. Finally I said to myself, if we can put a man on the moon and bring him back, I can do this. Now that I am into it this far, it is made out be be way more than what it really is. All it takes is time, patience, the right tools (they don't have to be "Special Ferrari" tools), and some guidance. Now this isn't to say that I haven't gotten frustrated, or mad, cause I have. But I still think it isn't that big a deal. It is a pretty big job, but no way is it a huge $6,000 job, that the dealers wanna charge. No freekin way is it that big a job. |
Eugene Angelo (Eangelo)
New member
Username: Eangelo
Post Number: 39
Registered: 8-2001
| | Posted on Sunday, July 06, 2003 - 10:08 pm: | |
Ernie,
I'm very impressed with your desire to perform your own 30K service. I wish I knew the answer to your question, but I don't. I have read some of your earlier post and they have helped me perform similar work. Please, post some pictures of your work. I hope someone here can and will answer your question.
Good Luck,
Eugene |
Ernie (Ernie)
Member
Username: Ernie
Post Number: 739
Registered: 11-2001
| | Posted on Sunday, July 06, 2003 - 1:04 pm: | |
Hey guys,
I have the motor out of my 348. I'm doing the 30k myself. Anyway, I have already taken the measurements of the clearances on my valves, and I will be double checking them before I remove the cam caps, and cams. In the shop manual the working clearances for the inlet/intake valves is the same for the cars with and without cats, 0.20 - 0.25mm. But they have two different clearences for the exhaust valves, 0.30 - 0.35mm for the cars with cats, and 0.35 - 0.40mm on the cars without. For the intake clearances is it better to have the clearance in the middle, closer to 0.20mm, or closer to 0.25mm? I'm guessing 0.25 so that you can get more air/fuel mix into the cylinder for a lil bit more power. On the exhaust, same question but, could I still pass smog if I had the clearances closer to 0.35. I ask because the ranges butt up against eachother. 0.35mm on the high side for the cars with cats and that is the low side for the cars without. I'm in Kalifornia, so what I'm trying to do is get the best adjustment so that I can still pass smog and get a lil bit more power. Or should I just keep them in the middle of the specs for the cars with cats. |
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